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Old 03/03/10, 12:57 AM   #2926
happyskippper
Glass Joe
 
Orc Warrior
 
Blackrock
ilvl 277 bryntoll heroic has a top end of 1329 3.4 speed. shadows edge ilvl 264 1309 top end 3.7 speed. using bryntoll mainhand/blade of culling offhand my dmg range is 2156-2580 unbuffed. when i switch in shadows edge main hand/blade of culling offhand my dmg range is 2262-2680 unbuffed. im just curious as to why the dmg range would drop so much when the top end of bryntoll is higher. neither are gemmed with anything that would change the top end.

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Old 03/03/10, 1:17 AM   #2927
Pilkington
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Warrior
 
Firetree
Originally Posted by happyskippper View Post
ilvl 277 bryntoll heroic has a top end of 1329 3.4 speed. shadows edge ilvl 264 1309 top end 3.7 speed. using bryntoll mainhand/blade of culling offhand my dmg range is 2156-2580 unbuffed. when i switch in shadows edge main hand/blade of culling offhand my dmg range is 2262-2680 unbuffed. im just curious as to why the dmg range would drop so much when the top end of bryntoll is higher. neither are gemmed with anything that would change the top end.
You are forgetting how attack power increases weapon dps. Say you have enough attack power to give you an extra 500 dps to your weapons. The 3.4 speed weapon will gain 3.4 x 500 = 1700 top end, while a 3.7 speed weapon gains 3.7 x 500 = 1850 top end.

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Old 03/03/10, 11:47 AM   #2928
Purelybetter
Glass Joe
 
Draenei Warrior
 
Burning Blade
Originally Posted by happyskippper View Post
ilvl 277 bryntoll heroic has a top end of 1329 3.4 speed. shadows edge ilvl 264 1309 top end 3.7 speed. using bryntoll mainhand/blade of culling offhand my dmg range is 2156-2580 unbuffed. when i switch in shadows edge main hand/blade of culling offhand my dmg range is 2262-2680 unbuffed. im just curious as to why the dmg range would drop so much when the top end of bryntoll is higher. neither are gemmed with anything that would change the top end.
As Pilk said, Attack Power increases DPS. DPS = Damage per Second, so it's a unit of measurement. That's why we want slow weapon, our attack power will further increase the top-end damage range and give us bigger hits/crits.

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Old 03/03/10, 7:03 PM   #2929
RPZip
Von Kaiser
 
RPZip's Avatar
 
Tauren Warrior
 
Illidan
Alright, I switched from 2x 258 T9, 2x 264 T10 to 4x 264 T10 after getting lucky with token drops in 10-man. My problem is tracking the GCD reduction on Slam.

Before people jump on me, I should explain the following;

1) When the 4T10 procs, you get two stacks of Bloodsurge and the Slam duration is extended to 10 seconds. As it currently stands, if you proc Bloodsurge again it will refresh back up to 2 stacks and extend the duration back out to 10s assuming you haven't used both charges.

2) When 4T10 is first procced, it lowers the GCD on Slam for 10 seconds. This is partially guesswork, as testing it on a dummy is a huge pain in the ass due to the randomness factor, but I believe the duration is correct. In any event, though, it works out rather nicely - if you use both Bloodsurge charges and it procs a new, standard Bloodsurge it retains the 1.0s GCD. I think it applies to any Bloodsurges that proc during the 10s window from the first 4T10, but it's possible it applies to any that proc after the double-stack is refreshed or I just have the timing off.

My problem is that tracking the GCD reduction (even assuming my numbers are accurate) is a huge pain in the ass. I can't use a buff frame mod, Power Auras or TellMeWhen since it's not a unique buff, and the GCD reduction exists independently of Slam being active at all; you can proc the 4T10 Bloodsurge, use both charges, then have a normal one proc ~5 seconds later and still have the GCD reduction. What I need is something that could proc a DBM-esque boss mod timer when I first proc the 4T10, and finding one has been... difficult.

I'm seriously considering taking a boss mod I don't really use, like RaidWatch, and pulling out all the actual boss mod components and just making it track Bloodsurge (so it's not mixed in with 8 other timers if I used a boss mod I actually use for bosses, for example) but I'd prefer to avoid having to learn how they've programmed it if I can. Does anyone have a suggestion for a mod that would meet my requirements?

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Old 03/04/10, 2:40 AM   #2930
ZeTodu
Von Kaiser
 
Human Warrior
 
Neptulon (EU)
Originally Posted by RPZip View Post
Alright, I switched from 2x 258 T9, 2x 264 T10 to 4x 264 T10 after getting lucky with token drops in 10-man. My problem is tracking the GCD reduction on Slam.

Before people jump on me, I should explain the following;

1) When the 4T10 procs, you get two stacks of Bloodsurge and the Slam duration is extended to 10 seconds. As it currently stands, if you proc Bloodsurge again it will refresh back up to 2 stacks and extend the duration back out to 10s assuming you haven't used both charges.

2) When 4T10 is first procced, it lowers the GCD on Slam for 10 seconds. This is partially guesswork, as testing it on a dummy is a huge pain in the ass due to the randomness factor, but I believe the duration is correct. In any event, though, it works out rather nicely - if you use both Bloodsurge charges and it procs a new, standard Bloodsurge it retains the 1.0s GCD. I think it applies to any Bloodsurges that proc during the 10s window from the first 4T10, but it's possible it applies to any that proc after the double-stack is refreshed or I just have the timing off.

My problem is that tracking the GCD reduction (even assuming my numbers are accurate) is a huge pain in the ass. I can't use a buff frame mod, Power Auras or TellMeWhen since it's not a unique buff, and the GCD reduction exists independently of Slam being active at all; you can proc the 4T10 Bloodsurge, use both charges, then have a normal one proc ~5 seconds later and still have the GCD reduction. What I need is something that could proc a DBM-esque boss mod timer when I first proc the 4T10, and finding one has been... difficult.

I'm seriously considering taking a boss mod I don't really use, like RaidWatch, and pulling out all the actual boss mod components and just making it track Bloodsurge (so it's not mixed in with 8 other timers if I used a boss mod I actually use for bosses, for example) but I'd prefer to avoid having to learn how they've programmed it if I can. Does anyone have a suggestion for a mod that would meet my requirements?
I use SatrinaBuffFrames ....

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Old 03/04/10, 3:11 AM   #2931
DarkS
Von Kaiser
 
DarkS's Avatar
 
Undead Warrior
 
Daggerspine (EU)
You can use ElkBuffBars also. It shows a bar that will last for 5 seconds for normal procs and 10 seconds for T10x4 ones.

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Old 03/04/10, 6:10 AM   #2932
Ganj420
Glass Joe
 
Orc Warrior
 
Cho'gall
I don't really have a problem distinguishing 4pc10 and a regular slam. I just use power auras for when slam comes up and when it's a regular slam the timer shows 5 seconds and when its 4pc it shows 10 seconds. Not much to it really.

On an off note. Just got the set bonus tonight and I love it. It's amazing for single target fights like Saurfang.

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Old 03/04/10, 11:21 AM   #2933
RPZip
Von Kaiser
 
RPZip's Avatar
 
Tauren Warrior
 
Illidan
I'd like to go ahead and thank people for not actually reading my post. It puts a smile on my face, it really does.

It's extremely trivial to see when Bloodsurge has multiple charges (and is lasting 10 seconds, for that matter) for me. What is harder for me to gauge is how long the GCD reduction lasts, because the sequence of events can go like this.

0s: 2x Bloodsurge procs
2s: 1 Bloodsurge Proc Used
3s: Both Bloodsurge Procs Used
7s: Bloodsurge Procs (normal charge, 5s duration). Used it again and it still has the 1s GCD.

The GCD reduction seems to extend up to ~10s after the initial double Bloodsurge. What I'm looking for is something that can display an actual timer when Bloodsurge procs because you cannot just use a buff mod to watch it - the GCD reduction exists independently of the actual double Bloodsurge proc. It also effects when and where I'd like to place my Bloodsurges, since with one charge and a 1s GCD you can weave it in as BT, WW, Slam, BT without pushing BT back any.

EDIT: Pulled up the WoLogs from a Saurfang kill. It'd be easier to demonstrate if the Slam! or Bloodsurge proc showed up in the combat log, but I guess it doesn't for some reason.

[23:55:54.736] Nomepunter Bloodthirst Deathbringer Saurfang *15359*
[23:55:56.281] Nomepunter Slam Deathbringer Saurfang *10501*
[23:55:57.565] Nomepunter Slam Deathbringer Saurfang *10471* <--- Bloodsurge'd slams, note the <1.5s delay between them. This uses all charges from the proc.
[23:55:59.166] Nomepunter Bloodthirst Deathbringer Saurfang 5633
[23:56:00.744] Nomepunter Whirlwind Blood Beast 204
[23:56:00.744] Nomepunter Whirlwind Blood Beast *500*
[23:56:00.744] Nomepunter Whirlwind Blood Beast *514*
[23:56:00.757] Nomepunter Whirlwind Deathbringer Saurfang *11188*
[23:56:00.757] Nomepunter Whirlwind Blood Beast *285*
[23:56:00.757] Nomepunter Whirlwind Blood Beast 134
[23:56:00.757] Nomepunter Whirlwind Blood Beast *307*
[23:56:00.757] Nomepunter Whirlwind Deathbringer Saurfang *6559*
[23:56:02.411] Nomepunter Slam Deathbringer Saurfang *9993* <---non Bloodsurge's slam
[23:56:03.583] Nomepunter Bloodthirst Deathbringer Saurfang 5897 <--- followed up by a Bloodthirst ~1.1s later
[23:56:07.981] Nomepunter Bloodthirst Deathbringer Saurfang 5897<--- and if I'd had another 2x Bloodsurge proc, I would have used it before Bloodthirsting again

Last edited by RPZip : 03/04/10 at 12:20 PM.

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Old 03/04/10, 12:24 PM   #2934
Tutankhamon81
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Warrior
 
Garona
Originally Posted by RPZip View Post
I'd like to go ahead and thank people for not actually reading my post. It puts a smile on my face, it really does.

It's extremely trivial to see when Bloodsurge has multiple charges (and is lasting 10 seconds, for that matter) for me. What is harder for me to gauge is how long the GCD reduction lasts, because the sequence of events can go like this.

0s: 2x Bloodsurge procs
2s: 1 Bloodsurge Proc Used
3s: Both Bloodsurge Procs Used
7s: Bloodsurge Procs (normal charge, 5s duration). Used it again and it still has the 1s GCD.

The GCD reduction seems to extend up to ~10s after the initial double Bloodsurge. What I'm looking for is something that can display an actual timer when Bloodsurge procs because you cannot just use a buff mod to watch it - the GCD reduction exists independently of the actual double Bloodsurge proc. It also effects when and where I'd like to place my Bloodsurges, since with one charge and a 1s GCD you can weave it in as BT, WW, Slam, BT without pushing BT back any.

EDIT: Pulled up the WoLogs from a Saurfang kill. It'd be easier to demonstrate if the Slam! or Bloodsurge proc showed up in the combat log, but I guess it doesn't for some reason.
Would it be possible to use something like the quartz GCD timer to accomplish what you're looking for? I would imagine any changes to the GCD would be reflected it in the timer bar.

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Old 03/04/10, 12:26 PM   #2935
RPZip
Von Kaiser
 
RPZip's Avatar
 
Tauren Warrior
 
Illidan
Originally Posted by Tutankhamon81 View Post
Would it be possible to use something like the quartz GCD timer to accomplish what you're looking for? I would imagine any changes to the GCD would be reflected it in the timer bar.
Hm, I'll double check but I think the problem is the Quartz GCD timer can only check after you cast a spell; I want to know if the Slam GCD is reduced before I cast it, since it'd effect when and where I use it. I haven't updated to the new version though, it's possible that they've changed the coding.

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Old 03/04/10, 12:32 PM   #2936
Thundale
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Warrior
 
Runetotem
Confusion....I see most Fury Warriors gemming for Armor Pen....Yet landsouls calc still tells me to gem strength. In Fury Warrior FAQ here on Elitist Jerks, it states:

Q: What are my stat priorities?
A: Get 8% hit (including Precision), 26 Expertise. After that, Strength > ArP > Crit > Agi = 2AP = Haste > Hit.

The above is how I have gone about things yet I keep hearing how I need to re-gem.

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Old 03/04/10, 12:47 PM   #2937
Kaan
Piston Honda
 
Kaan's Avatar
 
Orc Warrior
 
Blackrock (EU)
Your Armory isn't working. However, if the spreadsheet tells you to go for Strength, it is most likely because your "Hit Strength" is too low to be worth to go for ArP cap. Armor Penetration always depends on other stats, if your equip level is too low, it is not very profitable unless upgrading gear.

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Old 03/04/10, 12:59 PM   #2938
Enìgma
Glass Joe
 
Orc Warrior
 
Al'Akir (EU)
Originally Posted by Thundale View Post
Confusion....I see most Fury Warriors gemming for Armor Pen....Yet landsouls calc still tells me to gem strength. In Fury Warrior FAQ here on Elitist Jerks, it states:

Q: What are my stat priorities?
A: Get 8% hit (including Precision), 26 Expertise. After that, Strength > ArP > Crit > Agi = 2AP = Haste > Hit.

The above is how I have gone about things yet I keep hearing how I need to re-gem.
Don't gem for ArP unless you're actually able to reach the hardcap. Since ICC is out you automaticly get more than enough ArP from gear alone to hit the soft cap tho.
The gemming is depending on your trinket, for example: if you use GT you need around 58% ArP to reach the soft cap. (there is ArP food & Elixirs available to make it easier)
If you arent using an ArP trinket and can't reach the hardcap when gemming ArP, I'd suggest you to get a trinket with ArP proc such as Mjolnir Runestone or Grimtoll.

Last edited by Enìgma : 03/04/10 at 1:06 PM.

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Old 03/04/10, 1:53 PM   #2939
keseph
Von Kaiser
 
Orc Warrior
 
Arthas
Originally Posted by RPZip View Post
Hm, I'll double check but I think the problem is the Quartz GCD timer can only check after you cast a spell; I want to know if the Slam GCD is reduced before I cast it, since it'd effect when and where I use it. I haven't updated to the new version though, it's possible that they've changed the coding.
Since you've already mentioned being vaguely comfortable writing your own mod, you could keep it very simple by hooking onto the AURA_CHANGE event, looking for the 10sec or 2charge Bloodsurge, and then calling a custom timer in your favorite timer mod (I'm fairly certain dotimer and dbm both have public functions for doing so). It's been awhile but I think I remember DoTimer having in-game-configurable event triggers to do this. I'll look into it after work.

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Old 03/04/10, 8:11 PM   #2940
MildCorma
Von Kaiser
 
MildCorma's Avatar
 
Troll Priest
 
Stormrage (EU)
Originally Posted by Thundale View Post
Confusion....I see most Fury Warriors gemming for Armor Pen....Yet landsouls calc still tells me to gem strength. In Fury Warrior FAQ here on Elitist Jerks, it states:

Q: What are my stat priorities?
A: Get 8% hit (including Precision), 26 Expertise. After that, Strength > ArP > Crit > Agi = 2AP = Haste > Hit.

The above is how I have gone about things yet I keep hearing how I need to re-gem.

If you are using an ARP proc trinket then it is most likely the proc is taking you past the 100% mark, which would mean gemming for arp is still giving you a DPS increase but not as much as str as when the trinket does proc you will effectively be at 110% arp (number is an example only, I can't say without seeing your armory). Basically you want to gem arp but stop at the point that you would reach 100% from both passive arp and the trinket proc. Anything past this is basically eating into your trinkets value so don't be ashamed to gem arp and strength.

EDIT: I midread your question slightly. Basically if Landsouls sheet says it's better to do it one way, then do it that way. The man has put alot of effort into a fantastically accurate spreadsheet. Alot of newer warriors (especially on sites such as MMOChampion) believe that if you do not gem arp then you are a noob, which is simply not the case as it depends completely on gearing and statweights which is why Landsouls spreadsheet has such a good reputation amongst the top end warriors.

Last edited by MildCorma : 03/04/10 at 8:30 PM.

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