Long time reader - First time poster...
Looking for a little advice on my gearing as far as what would be more advantageous to stack with my current gear.
4226 AP
35.44 Crit
270 Hit
26 Expertise
Armory Sheet (dont think this has updated, but i picked up the Hammerhead badge cloak)
Im a jewelcrafter and im currently using the +27 Str gems in 3 blue sockets for the +Str bonus.
I guess im just wondering whether i should start stacking more crit after the 4k AP point or just keep stacking Str.
Long time reader - First time poster...
Looking for a little advice on my gearing as far as what would be more advantageous to stack with my current gear.
Im a jewelcrafter and im currently using the +27 Str gems in 3 blue sockets for the +Str bonus.
I guess im just wondering whether i should start stacking more crit after the 4k AP point or just keep stacking Str.
I was doing some theory crafting this morning while servers were down and I started thinking about Anger Management and Improved Berserker Rage. I didn't see a post here about either one so I decided to post. This is assuming you're specing putting 3 points into Intensify Rage
In both tests I had only Battle Shout, I only used Recklessness and Death Wish once per test, and I did not use slam due to it being very RNG based and I didn't want to skew the data.
Each test lasted 4 minutes and 45 Seconds.
I would only use Heroic Strike when I needed to rage dump, or had enough rage for the dps cycle of WW and BT
Melee: 145 -- 30.2% of Total Damage
Bloodthirst: 41 -- 17.9% of Total Damage
Whirlwind: 54 -- 17.5% of Total Damage
Heroic Strike 37 -- 17.1% of Total Damage
Misses: 18
Total DPS: 2007.4
Melee: 152 -- 32.4% of Total Damage
Bloodthirst: 40 -- 20% of Total Damage
Whirlwind: 56 -- 18.5 of Total Damage
Heroic Strike: 29 -- 13.1% of Total Damage
Misses: 12
Total DPS: 1857.1
Let me know what you guys think, my main spec is prot but i've been going for the last month or so. In raids I usually do #4 dps 3.7k-4.5k on regular bosses (i.e. not thadd, loatheb)
Let me know what you guys think, my main spec is prot but i've been going for the last month or so. In raids I usually do #4 dps 3.7k-4.5k on regular bosses (i.e. not thadd, loatheb)
The parse is far too small to not be skewed by crits and even weapon damage range fluctuations. And the fact that it incurs the global cooldown is a severe loss of value as a dps talent, since if we're clipping any of our abilities the damage gained from the extra rage is offset by delaying your abilities. Even so, it does come at increased value for the majority of warriors that drops hit after the patch to be able to smooth out rage generation on demand. It remains yet a debatable talent and more of a talent of preferences; some enjoy it, others do not. I know I do not prefer it as of my current gear situation at least, but that might change since I plan to drop ~80 hit rating.
Edit: In anticipation of the PTR these changes got presented.
Changing stances now has a much reduced cost: you lose a maximum of 20 rage (10 with Tactical Mastery). For example, if you have 100 rage and change stances, you will have 80 rage remaining. If you have 10 rage and change stances, all of your rage is lost. In addition, we may change the penalties associated with some stances.
You now gain rage when damage done to you is absorbed, such as through a Power Word: Shield.
Blood Frenzy now causes 2/4% physical damage done.
Sunder Armor (and similar debuffs) now reduces armor by 4% per application, and is now a single rank. Creature armor has been globally reduced so that debuffed targets should take about the same damage from physical attacks that they did before this change. The net effect should be that this debuff is slightly less mandatory in PvE and is not disproportionately more powerful against cloth targets in PvP.
We are also adding increased damage to Arms, possibly through Overpower or Slam.
We are also looking at granting rage when the warrior blocks, dodges or parries.
Particularly the first change is intereresting to fury warriors (which makes me believe it will never go live) since it allows us to start rending again! As some of you might know from earlier in this thread I'm a resolute defender of the ability that is Rend but the Bloodsurge changes destroyed any intentions of using it. However this new stance-dance change certainly opens up the possibility to gain damage from rending once again. Mind you this is nothing but the preliminary notes and there's a chance this will never go live (and probably won't seeing it might be a slight buff to fury).
Last edited by aylene : 02/05/09 at 1:11 PM.
Reason: Typo + adding ptr notes
I like the idea of fitting rend back into our rotation. However, I think its important to keep in mind that not only did the bloodsurge change effect the rending discussion but the Glyph of whirlwind effected it as well. Its a double whammy hit to rending in fact as it...
a) Takes up a glyph slot that was before-hand free to glyph with improved rend(keep in mind that the rend glyph got buffed to 6 seconds from 3 second).
b) Making WW a 8 second cooldown means that finding a time that WW,BT and Slam! procs are more then 3(ish) seconds away from either coming up or expiring will be alot harder to time on the fly.
It would be interesting to see if the glyph of WW is actually worth getting rid of for the glyph of rend as the 2 second reduction really dosen't make it fit into a better pattern but instead makes our rotation more of a priority queue.
I think the glyph to drop would be Execute for rend, not WW.
The thing that really interests me about the patch notes is the possibility of armor pen being additive %'s now... That would make armor pen more attractive. If Sunder and faerie fire changed to 20% and 5% and its additive onto our armor pen, then we would finally get armor pen as character sheet percentage as opposed to whats left over after sunder and faerie fire.
And yes I know blizzard generally doesn't do additive calculations on % based buffs, but it would be nice.
I'd like to know how you are putting out DPS #s like that... my DPS #s are lower but my damage done smoked yours and I have better gear WWS
and is it just me or do we just suck vs other classes on Patchwork?
Your gear isn't really even that close to his. He out-gears you by quite a bit. Your Thaddius is more than a minute longer than his because you have 10 people who didn't do damage and some poorly performing mages.
Your Deep Wounds are a mind-boggling 28% of your damage (obviously done pre-hotfix). Mine from Tuesday's was a paltry 16% of my total damage.
Hi everyone, long time lurker, first time poster, not native so please excuse any poor english.
3.1 rend dancing
Two GCDs(latency aside), 30 rage, and more than 50% chance to waste a bloodsurge, that's still a lot to ask for fitting an uncrittable dot into our general rotation. I mean, sure we can put up a 21sec rend right after charge, but I'm afraid more than that might be a waste of rage, gcd and attention, especially on short fights(which shouldn't be the case in Ulduar, but who knows, right?). I'll try to get some hard math on that later.
3.1 armor debuffing
On another note, after the armor debuffing overhaul, we should be expecting about 2.5k drop in base armor from bosses, to 10.530 base in order to match the previous debuffed value. Even considering due proportions, other mobs should also take a good hit, so we might just get even higher DPS on fights involving adds of some sort, or inconsistent sunder stacks.
Rend is going to be much more viable, in fact it's going to be cookie-cutter for a DPS Warrior to take Improved Rend and Tactical Mastery since with these changes you will be able to keep spamming heroic strike while using rend. Ruliz's post is a bit inaccurate, it will cost 1 GCD since stance switching isnt on the GCD and also it will cost 20 rage because we'll all have tactical mastery. Keep in mind that this change will also make the T7 4 piece bonus a bit better.
Blood frenzy changed back to 4% is a nice thing for all Physical DPS and makes Arms Warriors a bit more viable. However Combat rogues will probably be a better alternative... time will tell.
Sunder armor converted to a percentage, as someone posted a few pages ago this is quite a large buff for armor penetration and i'll leave it to the math junkies to figure out exactly by how much. I'm thinking Arpen will be 0.8-0.9 SEP.
Edit:Sorry you're right, it's 30 rage, as the guy below pointed out.
Last edited by Polishedhead : 02/05/09 at 8:22 PM.
Rend is going to be much more viable, in fact it's going to be cookie-cutter for a DPS Warrior to take Improved Rend and Tactical Mastery since with these changes you will be able to keep spamming heroic strike while using rend. Ruliz's post is a bit inaccurate, it will cost 1 GCD since stance switching isnt on the GCD and also it will cost 20 rage because we'll all have tactical mastery. Keep in mind that this change will also make the T7 4 piece bonus a bit better.
Blood frenzy changed back to 4% is a nice thing for all Physical DPS and makes Arms Warriors a bit more viable. However Combat rogues will probably be a better alternative... time will tell.
Sunder armor converted to a percentage, as someone posted a few pages ago this is quite a large buff for armor penetration and i'll leave it to the math junkies to figure out exactly by how much. I'm thinking Arpen will be 0.8-0.9 SEP.
Rend costs 10 rage.
10 to switch stance.
10 to apply rend.
10 to switch back.
I don't see rend being cookie cutter, because the rage cost is still too high, not to mention the loss of GCD's which will be more then 1.5 seconds because of the time it takes the server to register the stance change (I would say 2.5 sec on average including 2 stance changes). The WW glyph makes it even more difficult to find the time to work in rend.
As for armor pen, we're looking at 130.83 armor removed for 1%, as opposed to current armor removal of 78.98 armor per 1% with sunder and FF. That's a 65% increase, making ArP's SEP around .82 (assuming 0 armor pen and an original SEP of .5) actually making it a valuable stat. This is all assuming that armor pen will stack with the new mechanics (and I don't see why it wouldn't).
Grim will certainly be a better trinket.
At the moment, imp zerker rage and anger management discussions are moot points. Any points put into these are points not put into dps talents. If you are so severely expertise capped that you only have 1/2 or 0/2 weapon mastery, its time to start dkping better gear (without expertise).
From some quick math with my gear it looks like if its fully additive... (which probably won't be the case, but I can dream.) Armor Pen will come out to be around 1.05 SEP. Which is quite huge...
However if its partially additive in which I mean sunder+ faerie fire = 25% debuff to armor and then armor pen % is applied to the remaining armor. Then Armor Pen is still slightly more valuable due to the fact that it will pierce more armor % wise off the bosses base armor. It would be 1% armor pen on character sheet is 0.75% of the bosses base armor as opposed to the 0.604% of the base armor it is now.
If its not additive at all, which means sunder+ faerie fire = 21% debuff to the bosses armor then armor pen is 1% on character sheet to 0.79% of the bosses armor with debuffs up.
Either way, armor pen looks like it will be more valuable post patch, I did very rudimentary math so it may be error prone on the exact value of it, but the %1 character sheet armor pen to % of boss armor should be correct.
It seems to me that while rend will not be able to be fitted easily into the fury rotation in any static way, it will still have some definate application in our dps. Any time that bloodthirst and whirlwind are on cooldown and we do not have a slam! buff, we have the option of heroic strike or rend. Thirty rage is hardly a high cost for rend when you consider that heroic strike has a potential cost of up to around 60 rage for only 500 damage added to our autoswing. And if you are fast there is plenty of time to do the stance dance in between other parts of our damage rotation.
Well stances do have GCDs, just on their own table, but yeah, it's just one, my bad. Latency, however, will punish this a lot harder than usual, from all the stance-restricted stuff going on that the client won't even let you queue.
Still, let's think about it for a second, we'll have to fit rend when WW and BT are back to back on the gcd list, that means we just spent 55 rage on our normal rotation, and will need 30 more for the rend dance, so unless you're rage capped, you'll likely have to stop HSing to guarantee you won't get proper fucked by some minor offhand rng and delay your hard hitters which should be coming up next, possibly capping and wasting even more rage in the process.
Basically, if rage generation wasn't so spiky, or the rage pool was a bit bigger, it would actually be possible to properly model dps gain/loss for rend dancing on 3.1, as it stands, the potential dps gain might not offset the risk of delaying BT/WW, but we're here to try, ain't we? The synergy with T7 might help with the rage thing, so there's still a good chance, especially over 75%.
What's all this talk about latency? You have a 1.5 sec gap to switch to battle stance then a 1.5 sec gap to switch to berserker stance. Am i missing something?
Even queued up Heroic Strikes stay queued as you switch stance.
when you consider that heroic strike has a potential cost of up to around 60 rage for only 500 damage added to our autoswing.
That's not quite correct though. You're removing misses, glances, proccing Bloodsurge and adding impale damage(?) too.
Last edited by Polishedhead : 02/05/09 at 8:37 PM.
You'll want to make sure your BT didnt proc bloodsurge before trying to rend, so you probably don't want to BT and press battle stance at the same time. That might be a bit complicated with higher latency added to reaction time.
But thats the least of our worries, putting more strain on the offhand rng might be troublesome, especially if you're dropping a lot of +hit.
That's not quite correct though. You're removing misses, glances, proccing Bloodsurge and adding impale damage(?) too.
While it is oversimplifying the issue, my rend with just battleshout on a test dummy does 3000 damage, add in damage from raid buffs, improved rend, mangle and the rend glyph and you are looking at a lot more damage for a lot less rage than heroic strike often costs.
The Sunder change definately makes Armor Pen the best stat again. Also, the more Penetration you stack, the more powerful it gets. We're back in BC again boys. Suit up. Without the change itemization balance would have been most excellent with Ulduar gear.
There are a lot of BIS changes with this sunder change.
Also, they better be careful what they reduce the boss armor to, or our DPS will go way up.
A bit off-topic but I'd like to point out that there is a severe problem with their current planned stance change cost. Right now if you're at 10 rage in Battle Stance as Arms in Arena, you can switch to Berserker Stance and pummel a heal. With the change you lose ALL rage when switching, and thus cannot pummel. The change needs to preserve the existing Stance Mastery and Tactical Mastery function, in that no rage is lost if rage is already <= 10 or whatever the appropriate amount is.
Are you sure the hotfix was actually done on your realm? That's a pretty insane Deep Wounds ratio.
Compared to mine, where I was facing Thaddius' front side the entire time, no Hysteria and an oddly low crit rate: Wow Web Stats
Are you sure the hotfix was actually done on your realm? That's a pretty insane Deep Wounds ratio.
Compared to mine, where I was facing Thaddius' front side the entire time, no Hysteria and an oddly low crit rate: Wow Web Stats
Does that add up to you?
Hysteria and the fact that all my gear is BiS probably explains the gap. I used to do 13k with inferior gear so I think it's possible. Also I avg 15%+ more crit than you if you compare the WWS.
We'll find out next week for sure, unless someone wants to somehow reverse theorycraft the log. This raid was done on the night following the one where everyone noticed the hotfix.
I notice you only have 143 Hit rating, being Alliance with a draenei and 3/3 Precision that still hit caps you, but I was still under the impression that hit rating that low would make for extremely patchy rage generation?
02/04/09, 8:43 PM
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