It's legit. We did Thaddius tonight and my DW ticks were considerably lower than last week's. I don't have the WWS links handy at the moment, but you and I are on the same server, so that theory is defunct.

:EDIT: How are you getting around the fact that your Strength is lower than your Agility for your trinket proc? Food, pots? Swapping out the Ring of Invincibility for a Ruthlessness would result in a net DPS benefit even though it would put you over Expertise cap because it would put your Strength back over your Agility.

According to the spreadsheet, it's a static 59 DPS loss for a 243 DPS upgrade when the trinket is up, and with an estimated uptime of 32% you're well in the green (with the break-even point being somewhere around 24% uptime).

Food 40 str. I just upgraded into my helm which is what messed up my str/agi balance. The spreadsheet str>agi check is broken, so I posted about it in the other thread. I just happened to notice manually and had to rework a couple of my gems.

I think my setup is what the "ultimate" setup is, and it happens to have naturally more agi than str. You need to gem around that and preferably be a JC.

I really don't notice any rage generation issues. I white hit really hard and I control my heroic strike+bloodrage if I get really unlucky, which is pretty rare.

This probably only applies when you're really well geared though.

Well, Im looking at only a few upgrades left (imo) that I can pick up. Im going for Val. Chest, Val Helm, and Frosted Gloves for sure. And of course, a BoH would help but we havent seen one yet. I was looking for ways to drop some expertise and I saw your belt which I think I will try to pick up. I suppose if I can lose some hit I can look for those bracers too, or replace my trinket although the proc on Grim Toll might be a little bit more worth it in the future if ArP is changed slightly.

Just copy my setup, it's really not made of anything rare except the BoH's. As for Grim Toll, it might beat out Mirror of Truth if ArP really is getting super buffed, but the darkmoon trinket will still be top two at worse. It's just a question of having the gold to spend on it. And don't count on 3.1 being released so soon.

Yeah, Im more concerned about dropping my excessive Expertise and finishing upgrading m t7 to t7.5. And getting my hands on at least ONE of those axes

Read like 4 posts above :P

The high agility results from the fact that best in slot items almost all have a tonne of agility on them, even the Betrayers :\

I use strength food in raids to make sure my str>agi for the proc.

I take issue with a few things.

1. Is it really BIS everywhere? You basically have an ideal Thaddius gearset, since hit helps on rage and quite obviously we're rage capped on Thaddius. Things can be random as well, you have an ~11% miss rate on swings ( I'm not counting parries ) with 134 hit, along with 49% crit. I have 295 hit in my gear and I had ~13% miss rate on my white swings with 34% crit this week. Admittedly that's my worst Thaddius parse, but its convenient to illustrate the point.

I'm not saying you're incorrect in going this route of gear, I just think saying it's BIS is a stretch.

2. Deriving anything from a Thaddius parse. I think as a community we just need to move away from getting anything from thaddius, even something as specific as deep wounds double dipping and thaddius being the major culprit. Maybe deep wounds was not adjusted for Hysteria, who knows.

3. I also think we need to be very careful in what we take out of WWS in general.

Tried comparing his BIS to my own gear planning, through landsouls spreadsheet, had to switch t7 leggings for helm, to lessen the expertise overcap with only recluse+gem+racial, ended up with roughly 115 dps over the previously planned set.

So... considering we're already pushing closer to the hit cap than we should, would it be worth losing the rotation-saving set bonus for that additional 1.7%ish dps?

Currently I'm going with the former, but I'd like to hear some input, especially if you're raiding 2/5.

ps. I'm not sure if this fits into the 'frowned upon' gearing questions, if so, please let me know and I'll edit it out.

EDIT: Seems the newest spreadsheet gives me a lower difference in DPS, about 85 (~1,2% loss), in account for crit devaluing from DWounds hotfix most likely.

Well at the moment I believe deep wounds can be bugged. I mean i got 20k ticks off loatheb this week not even with full buffs flask or food buff or hysteria. I believe it came after a really long delayed tick (20 seconds or so) and then deep wounds just kept stacking increasingly high. This was in 10 man but I wouldn't think deep wounds ticks would be so affected by a 10 man to a 25 man boss.

I'm pretty sure that was already mentioned either here or on the DWounds thread, successive crits with less than 1s in between keep pushing the older wounds into the new ones, instead of making them run concurrently and wear off on their own pace.

Envoy messes with my agility to strength ratio beyond what I can repair without losing hit cap.

Because of that you have to wear [Bracers of Unrelenting Attack] - enough Hit/Str and Envoy of Mortality no longer a problem. BIS-gear depends on JC/BS as Professions. Also, when you have JC/BS the BIS-gear is that shown in the unmodified Spreadsheet.

Ah, I think you just edited, but yes, I get what you are saying. BIS on the default spreadsheet seems to have the Orc expertise and I don't recall if that was an issue (also strangely enough has + Draenei aura) so it's not quite that for everyone.

My gear set isn't horde friendly due to the alliance aura and the orc racial just messes it up even more.

Also people worry way too much about rage starvation because of low hit when in reality if they're decked out it really isn't noticeable.

Easy fixes :

Blue aspect helmet -> T7.5
Stalk Skin belt -> Belt of razuvious
Sinners bands -> Wristbands of Sentinel Huntress
Nessingwary -> Envoy
T7.5 Legs - leggings of the honored.

more dps in spreadsheets and more comfortable play with more hit.




Thats the base change. Now the variations from THERE can be :

t7.5 helmet - Obsidian Greathelm
Recluse chest - t7.5

Same dps - even more hit, and only 2 leather items to step on peoples toes.

t.7.5 helmet - Obsidian
Girdle of Razuvious - stalk skin
Wristbands of sentinel huntress - sinners bands

You LOSE on t7 2 piece but its still highest dps (even counting the spreadsheet calculations - the 8% bloodsurge dmg contribution there isnt really happening in normal fights to be honest.)

Guys.

Spreadsheets are a tool, just like a WWS. Stop trying to divine the secrets of God from a spreadsheet.

There is no way you can model everything from the game into a spreadsheet. There is no way you are rolling around 4% hit and then say "it isn't noticeable". Yes maybe you have a fight sometime where it doesn't matter or doesn't come into play, but that is part of the game that isn't modeled by a spreadsheet.

I thought the nature of this thread was to min/max theorycraft, and the point of EJ is if something is 1 dps more, it's tested, if it is a fact, it is reported, and then the rest of the WOW community follows? I think best possible theorycraft gear, per race, per faction is not only a valuable discussion, but what I thought this forum & thread were for.

Edit: From all of my personal observation/landsoul/most of the other online resources hit rating is not especially important after special cap on any fight in general.

Well 4% + 3% precision + 1% alliance aura reaches the point where I don't noticeably get rage starved. On any fight I will have top notch dps. Even on patchwerk, the mother of all rage starving fights, I'll break 6500 on a 3 minute kill.

This spreadsheet models rage starvation very well actually.

I think what he's trying to say is that it's not possible to theorycraft for every nuance that can come about from the interaction of different items, procs and buffs.

I don't think he's arguing that the discussion itself is bad, but that trying to read too much into any conclusions you draw is moving down a slippery slope, especially if those conclusions may be flawed because a spreadsheet just can't account for random.

Here's Zoak's latest PW parse, in what he considers BiS gear, with a hysteria. He's using his 134 hit.

Wow Web Stats


By comparison, here is mine from this week.

Wow Web Stats

Now it's a shorter fight obviously, but i'm also short a hysteria, sitting 4-5 items short of what I consider BiS gear, with massive wasted stats from Jawbone, using crit gemming and a grim toll..and 350+ hit.

How much of that goes against conventional spreadsheet theory?

The point is not that spreadsheets are worthless but, like Mors said, that they are a tool.

That last parse isn't any good, I was trying to get 3x heroisms by dying and getting rezed and failed horribly and wound up doing 60% of the fight with no kings/might.

Wow Web Stats is my most recent valid WWS parse, even though I didn't have all my gear at the time.