The change to Berserker Stance I view as a good thing, but as has been mentioned it's a change they have to pair up with more changes to make mail/leather less desireable. The easiest fix, that I don't understand they havn't done yet, is to give a warrior version of Hunter Vs. Wild, grant us attack power/crit or something for X% of our Stamina.

I think this comes down to the X vs. Y scale I mentioned with AttT.

Realistically, AttT should be based on Stamina, not Armor. The multiplier could easily be changed to get it into a similar place as it is now in terms of bonus, however we would then know that the benefit would scale correctly over time vs. other Attack Power sources on gear.

Interestingly enough, Stamina and Armor--as they are in the current tier of gear--are fairly similar in terms of a ratio. (Tanks have around 2.3k unbuffed Stamina and 24k unbuffed Armor, and DPS have around 1.4k unbuffed Stamina and 14k Armor... obviously this varies, but it's 'close enough')

So basically, given that AttT is about 230ish AP in a few Fury Warriors I've checked, changing AttT to give 5/10/15% of Stamina to Attack Power would be fairly close to what we have now. It would be a bit lower unbuffed, but in raids end up a bit higher due to the amount of Stamina buffs available.

((1400 + 307) * 1.1) * 0.15 = 281 AP

The Ratio could use some tweaking, or you could shift it to be something like 2/4/6% of Stamina to Strength, so you would end up with something like:

((1400 + 307) * 1.1) * 0.06 * 1.1 * 2 = 248 AP

Which is actually a bit closer in terms of balance and would scale correctly with Improved Berserker Stance as well as having some synergy with block values, etc.

Realistically changing it to be either 5/10/15% Stamina -> AP or 2/4/6% Stamina -> Strength would be a better scaling, more measured way to appraoch it. Being based on Armor is not a good long-term solution.

I haven't actually figured out for myself whether i'm slightly ahead or slightly behind with full raid buffs. Then factoring in all the procs. It's just so close you may as well call it a tie. I was leaning towards a 0.47% loss. At least that's the way i initially thought. I'll have to review my own gear again. I use 110AP on my offhand weapon. Most of my enchants are AP based. Still have to factor in Horn of Winter and Might. Someone else may need to figure out the break even point of strength. How much strength do we need. It'll have to be a percentage of AP.

Might is now a 38AP loss.
Horn of Winter is now a 37AP gain.
1AP loss total

Some armor has already been changed. The crap items are still crap. T8-8.5 1-6dps increase per item for me. They lowered stamina but also lowered crit, hit, exp, ArP etc to get us more strength. Not what i wanted to see. Especially the loss to crit.

I'm not seeing anything even remotely close to this. Frigid Strength of Hodir has 13 ilvls over them, but Favor of the Dragon Queen and Broach of the Wailing Night are better for necks. As for rings, Loop of the Agile is Best in Slot by a good margin, Sif's Promise only comes with 5 SEP if you have a high expertise valuation (but in general it's a bad choice for your expertise). All of the Strength rings have 40 to 70% more Stamina than the agility rings. They are incredibly bad.

Using value adjustment for Hit and Expertise (values are pretty close around cap/soft cap with the equipment used), I get Bladebearer's Signet as BiS, followed by Loop of the Agile (had forgotten that in my list previously, my bad), then Power Enhancing Loop, Sif's Promise, Surge Needle and Strength of the Automaton. Without value correction vor hit/exp I get Loop of the Agile followed by Strength of the Automaton.

For Necks, using value adjustment: Frigid Strength followed by the Conquest Badge Neck and Favor of the Dragon Queen. Without adjustment Conquest Badge Neck followed by Favor followed by Frigid Strength.

The Sheet (modified for -10% dmg, 20% Str instead of 10% AP, increased value for ArP and no weapon mastery) is showing me the following SEP:

Agi 0.75
Hit 0.64
Arp 1.17
2 AP 0.76
Crit 0.90
Haste 0.72


Of course, we haven't seen Algalon and Yogg loot until now, but at least, that list seems to show that Strength pieces are far from "incredibly bad".

How did you add in the sunder/FF changes? I only get ArP as 1.087 SEP.
I also adjust expertise to the highest of STR or ArP. If you are under the Exp cap, you would gem for it, so you would lose a stat for Exp rating at 1:1 ratio, and Exp is red(or purple).
Overall I get similar results to Grayson, though I wouldn't say the Str rings are bad, they certainly suffer from bad stat allocation. I can tell what rings have Str on them just by looking at the stamina.
I am getting Greatness and Grim Toll as BiS trinkets, followed by Wrathstone, Mirror, Norgannon, and Pyrite Infuser. I would put wrathstone higher since its Use can be paired with Deathwish which isn't modeled by the sheet.

In case anyone missed it, we have new info regarding Plate and STR itemized rings/cloaks/necks. Mainly, some stam is being shifted around into STR on alot of new Ulduar gear. It will be interesting to see how this works out (source World of Raids - World of Warcraft News Guides Raid Strategies Guilds Forums)

Wow I'm liking this alot, they didn't nerf the other stats on the items like the tier sets just the stam.

Updating the items there isn't any huge changes in the items. A couple were nerfed a bit even, mostly the 10 mans I think. But overall a good sign that they recognize plate wearers don't need loads of stam.

most changed plate items got around 10SEP more. Not that much.
but there are also some quite nice upgrades.
e.g. Clockwork Legplates:
+ 2ArP + 5hit + 15str - 40stam
---
if you compare some leather and plate stuff, you maybe calculate that 30% more str is needed to prevent warriors from wearing leather. Then you go to the next slot and compare again leather vs. plate - this time you maybe calculate 20% or st. ... And the next compare says 45%. and so on and so on.
its just impossible to find the right number% to solve the whole problem. With directly changing the plateitems blue shows, that they've realized the "real" problem.

i hope we'll see some change (again) @our t8.

I manually edited Boss armor value, though the difference is rather small at around 200 armor - if I followed the Arp-testing results correctly.

High SEP for Arp could be a result of a whopping 60% of ArP on the selected gear.

I use expertise-adjustment at the highest SEP-value, ie. 1.17, yielding the BiS-ranking postet above. In any case, this was before modification of most Str-Items. Haven't had the time yet to edit new gear-data in the sheet, but I assume that this will favor Str-Items even more in most cases.

Wouldn't you rather wait the two months than have the shitfest that has happened with the last few patches? They broke more than they fixed with the last patch and had to hotfix a bunch of stuff. Not sure about you guys but I still get boss /yells appearing above my head sometimes.

Blizz is balancing all the classes AND releasing a 14 boss raid dungeon in a single patch. They are testing the boss encounters in 10 man and 25 man on EZ mode and hard mode which requires a huge amount of player testing.

In addition, balancing all the classes in PvP and PvE also requires huge amounts of player testing to correct the class imbalances generated in 3.0.

While I'm impatient for the patch as well, I appreciate the amount of testing that is being done (especially after 3.0.8) because I know it will result in fewer bugs when 3.1 is finally released.

I don't doubt, and in fact greatly appreciate the testing they are doing. I don't even have a problem waiting (seeing new class changes is a lot of fun). I was just offering an explanation as to why others are uncomfortable with Blizzard's plan. The issue they have is that, unlike games such as starcraft where balance can be considered finalized, WoW is an ever-changing entity with a higher need to consistently re tune.

I currently sit at around 51% crit in Berserker Stance with full raid buffs and find that deep wounds sometimes drops off on boss fights, even when I'm attacking 100% of the time.

I've seen that gemming for strength is higher dps on calculators such as on maxdps.com, but I don't think it takes into the account the likelyhood of a deep wound stack dropping off on a bad non-crit streak.

I'd like to get peoples' opinions on whether or not it would be worth changing my gems from the current full strength, to full crit in order to reduce the chances of losing high deep wound stacks.

Thanks.

Do you think you will gain so much crit rating in process to be sure deep wounds dont drop off?
Stick with STR, gemming for crit will lower DW ticks since it's affected by weapon dmg.

There is no advantage to having your deep wound stack not drop off. Deep wounds does not roll like ignite used to, it simply takes the damage left from the previous stack and adds it to the next when you crit. You will be better off gemming for strength.

Further, if you keep deep wounds running through the entire length of the fight, you can potentially end with a lot of the banked damage going to waste when the boss dies. This can be seen in extreme cases like Loatheb where near 100% crit rates mean that much of your "earned" deep wounds damage never actually effects the boss because it keeps getting pushed back. Not that this makes crit bad, but it makes even-more-less-good than strength when it comes down to choosing one over the other.

You are thinking about deep wounds wrong. Gem for stength.

This is true. Some Warriors get fooled by the size of the deep wound stack and think that if it falls off then all that damage is lost, that's a common misconception. Aside from what may be cut off by the boss dying, you will ideally get all of the Deep Wounds damage from all of your crits. Strength is, and in 3.1 will be more so, the better stat to gem for.

Still looking for a Theorycrafting Think Tank Peer that will actually do anything! Many have volunteered but have not done any work yet!

What do you need done Landsoul? Oddly enough, with the economic downturn, I got my free time back. (No more 80 hour work weeks... x_x)

So I have a swing timer question. I'm useing LD50_Abar right now in place a quartz. Quartz overall was just junk, but i noticed LD50 pauses its bar on a heroic strike, throwing off the whole timer.

So any other options? I'm digging through some addon sites and just not finding much at all.