Hey everyone,

I'm currently wondering if it would be better for Fury-Warriors to use 2x1h (slow/slow) because then we don't have -10% damage of TG and I think the loss of DPS in this combination would be fixed if we choose to gem some haste.
Personally I would specc into something like that: Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft
Is it somehow useful to go in that direction of using 2x1h instead of the old TG-Style of dual wielding two-handers?

In short, no.

This was debated prior to 3.1 coming out (either in this thread or in the Official 3.1 Changes and Discussion thread). The dps thanks to the increase in stats and overall damage while wielding two 2h weapons, even with the 10% nerf, far outweighs the possible dps with two 1h weapons.

I'm gemming for ArP now because I only need a few more pieces with ArP on them to reach the point it becomes better than str. Mostly either a Rune Edge or new bracers/belt.

Most of the bosses in ulduar have either a aoe element or movement element, in my experience fury out performs arms on these fights (majority of fights in ulduar), imp cleave + cleave glyph is very nice. The only fights I do more damage on as arms rather than fury is General Vezax and XT.

Also with the exception of a few fights DPS warriors seem to be one of the lowest DPS classes in the raid.

WoW Meter Online - Combatlog Replay in Engrish

I know blizzard mentioned buffing warrior dps in the future, but it better be pretty significant, especially single target DPS.

Hey guys! I've visited these forums for the past several months but this is my first time posting. I'd like to thank everyone for the relevant advice and the excellent research they've done. Your posts have helped me out tremendously!

I feel I should be putting out a great deal more DPS than the 3.3 to 3.7k I'm doing right now in 25 mans in ulduar. On the training dummy in IF, while running imp battle shout, I'm only doing 2.4k and I feel I should be doing a lot more. I follow the recommended WW>BT>Slam and HS rage dump, and I consider myself to be well geared (here's my armory) The World of Warcraft Armory.

The only thing I can think of that might be hampering my DPS is that I have too much hit and exp. I've read posts of warriors hitting 4.4-5k DPS who have posted armories similar to mine, I've read through hundreds of posts, and I'm having trouble pin pointing my problem. I doubt the TG nerf is completely responsible for my low DPS, and I would greatly appreciate any advice anyone can offer.

I also hope to contribute to EJ in the future. Thanks in advance!

You hit the nail on the head. You only need 26 (6.5%) expertise and 161 (8% with 3/3 precision) hit rating. If you have a draenei in your group, you only need 7% hit (around 132 hit rating, I believe). Best bet is to rework your gear. Check out landsoul's spreadsheet if you need help.

Also, never ever ever gem for stam. I am guessing that you are using purple gems to get the socket bonus from the blue slots. However, the socket bonus will almost NEVER produce greater dps than if you had gemmed purely for strength (or ArP if it has a greater SEP). For example, in your [Sabatons of Sudden Reprisal], you have an 8str/12stam gem, with a socket bonus of +4str, giving you a grand total of +12str from gems and socket bonus. Utilizing a red +16str gem would increase your strength by four, and thus would be more beneficial toward increasing your dps.

Also, in the yellow slots, you should gem for str/crit, not purely crit.

My mistake on that one.

I'd say trading 8.8AP for over 130 more HP is a good trade (assuming BoK). Especially in Ulduar

GC said today they will not be touching TG, and they plan on changing our other fury talents to buff our DPS. It will be interesting to see what they do because they may walk a fine line between the viability of us going back to 1hers.

Darkmyst I really disagree, if you are ever down that low you wont make it anyway. Also the dmg comes in bigger chunks.

My money is on them doing something with a combination of Unending Fury and the damage penalty.

Say you have 4 blue slots and you do that to all of them. You've lost maybe 40 AP out of what? 6,700-6,800 AP raid buffed? That's 0.6% of you AP in exchange for 520 health. I can't really call that a bad trade off.

2 blue gems are still required for the most common dps warrior meta gem.

If you are not JC you get better dps from agi/crit since requires 1 less blue.

Last time I made a comparison on my gear the difference was so small it came down to what socket bonuses you could attain with your blue gem(s).

And how many times did you down a boss because of these marginal extra +40 AP you had instead of the extra STA?

I'm hoping this rhetorical question isn't deemed inappropriate. It just proves a point, that such questions in general are rarely constructive.

DPS stats are favourable but there is a point where a tradeoff between DPS stats und survival stats is reasonable.
For some it might be 4 STR for 12 STA, for others 2 STR. Or less.

which makes arms more fun to play and fury less

i would go arms if i wasnt the only one buffing 500dps to everyone with 5% crit

Anyone in this thread who ever talks about dual wield 1 handers is just plain wrong. Don't forget about special attack normalization speed for whirlwind and bloodsurge, extra stats from a whole 2 handed weapon, and deep wounds damage mechanics. Feel free to try dual wield 1 handers after any near future patch and do terrible.

The thing is 500ish extra hp gives you absolutely nothing. Nothing at all. Dps warriors already have had their gear crammed up with stamina. I'm about 5-6k hp more then other dps classes, and that is plain wrong. Why should I get 500 more hp when I can do more dmg, which is my job? 40 ap (which is low, since it's much more with buffs) IS quite alot in the long run.

Can you tell me on what encounters in ulduar and why +500 hp would be better then dps increase?

4 STR * 4 = 16 STR
Add to that 20% improved Berserker Stance, 10% BoK and 10% AP and you'll get 46 AP.

Granted thats more than 40 ... but I would hardly call 46 AP "much more".
(The same as 4*12 STA would amount to more than 550 HP for an Arms warrior btw)

EDIT: And calling 46 AP "quite alot" is quite an exaggeration. 46 AP is less than 25 real raid DPS anyway you look at it (part of your total AP pool including Weapon damage, or by ratio of white dmg to total dmg and AP<->autoattack DPS conversion). In a 10 Minute fight thats 15K damage or a single high rage execute. "Quite alot" indeed.


And HP is usefull on Thorim Hard and Steelbreaker last (I'm not going to discuss strategies here ... let's stop it at that).
Haven't been on Freya and Mimiron Hard Mode yet ... but I'd guess it wouldn't hurt there either.

Anyway, not going to defend using blue gems (I am a JC so I get the nice bonuses either way).
Just stating that there is a point where STA might be worth a slight sacrifice in DPS.
You aren't doing damage when you're dead.

On the topic of Gem slots...

First, Jewelcrafting is by far the best profession for fury warriors. The debate here is a key point to that. Fury plate gear's poor itemization is also seen in socket colors as well as some of the socket bonuses. A blue socket is a terrible socket to have. As was already posted, we have enough base stam on our gear that we do not need anymore from our gems. A blue socket with a +8 strength socket bonus is essentially pushing us to have even more Staqmina in our set.

Anyway, on my current gear, the three gems I use exclusively are:

Red Socket- +16 str
Yellow Socket- +8 str/ +8 Crit
Blue Socket- +27 Str (in the best three socket bonus pieces) or + 16 str

The JC gems make it possible to ignore gem requirements on our meta gems. As well as getting the socket bonuses that require blue gems. I am curious though, those of you that are at a point that you are gemming for ArP, what are you putting in your Yellow Sockets? Is ArP so valuable as you stack more that you will ignore the socket bonus and gem +16 Arp instead of str/crit in yellow sockets?

It's simple math.
If you are not JC you are "wasting" 8 stat points (Arp or STR) using a 2nd blue gem.
You get a compensation of 8 stats on the ilvl 239 plate legs (+8 str but are not BiS) other bonuses are always worse than 8 str or arp.
So in the best scenario you would only have a blue gem on those legs and only that blue gem possibly.

21 crit is 0.457 crit %
21 agi is 23 after bok that translates into 0.368 crit %

0.089% crit is 4 crit rating + bonus that costs 8 of your best stat. That bonus could be equal if you can have a +6 STR one.

The blu socket items among BiS are:
Chest (6 crit rating)
Neck (4 STR)
Weapon (6 crit)
Leather Legs (8 stat prolly agi)
Rings (prolly 4 stats or 8 ap)

So there is not a great choice of bonuses, and adding 4 crit rating isn't going to beat easily 8 ArP (since I assume that if you don't gem according to color you go for best stat)

In the vast majority of cases it is better to have only 1 blue gem, in very few cases it is equal or better by <1 STR.
In both cases the bonus is negligible, depending on current gear can only shift in favor of the Relentless.

For a JC this is not the case and they can use that +4 crit rating.

I'm still missing some key Ulduar ArP drops (no single drop of bracers, girdle and cloak) but I used to run with full ArP Gems socketed.
Gear + Gems + ArP Food I had ca 650 passive ArP.
Arms with Mace Spec pushed me to ca 950 ArP.
In one yellow socket I had used a prismatic 27 ArP gem, in the other 8str/8hit (needed the hit) as the socket bonus +4 Str was too nice to ignore.

Now that ArP is said to be capped to 100% I have some gearswapping to do.
I think I'm going to swap Grimtoll with MoT and get my hit elsewhere. That way I should be able to sustain my passive ArP value and still have some options to upgrade by +200 ArP (bracers, girdle, ranged, weapon, cloak) almost to the ArP cap. But another high value hit trinket seems much more enticing now.