Origence

In the spreadsheet you can't modify the uptime but you can lower the haste of the proc to put its average benefit more in line to what you feel it really does for you. I changed it from 150 to 110.

The spreadsheet is a really useful tool but you should interpret it in your own way. I value crit higher than what it shows since it says I should have 99% flurry uptime and even on very static fights Im hovering more around 80-90% and past week I had an unlucky 70% flurry uptime on XT-002.

 

Kaan

Well, I've tested your spec and it wasn't that viable to me, that it is perhaps to you. But our gears are such diverse, that I think, you can probably utilize the 20 rage a lot better than me.

I'll go with this spec instead:
Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

The extra 20 rage from berserker rage were in rare occasions nice, but I've found me rage caped often, or GCDs wasting on berserker rage, that I could have spent on Slam, so wasting Slams that were overwritten often. Basically: some 6% more dmg procs will yield more for me - and I suggest, everyone who is experiencing to be rage caped often, to go with the same spec, as I think it is the most effective for higher ulduar gear levels.
However, when you are not on shouting duties you can go with 3/3 Cleave and 2/5 UW instead, for example.

@Origence:
To me it shows a flurry uptime of 93,559% and I think this is about right. I had, however, the same problem with XT yesterday, in the heart phase because I had problems hitting the heart. Perhaps my flurry dropped because of simply not hitting the heart... then it has taken some time to proc again, because of the slow swing timer. Perhaps you had the same problems.

@Kagorel:
I suggest you look for the warrior thread in the PvP forum.

 

Graul

A recent post from Ghostcrawler might in fact be just that.

Hopefully it's not dumbed down too much. Initially I liked a guaranteed Bloodsurge after a BT crit, but I adjusted to the current incarnation and it doesn't bother me that much anymore. I don't want it to be a change similar to what happened to Warlocks and we are simply given a "free" and automatic Slam. Stacks would be ok, but what would be even better is being able to Slam with both weapons.

 

Satlan_Leng

Hmm that makes me hope its the take Slam off the GCD. It would clean up the rotation some, but make it more twitchy. Slam just going off when it procs would just be horribly boring.

 

Tempus

They might just make it free tho. That would even be an increase that does not scale with gear too much. Which, well, could start to move towards a less nerf before every new instance necessity witch we have kinda had sometimes.

Oh, first time poster, hi. not raided actively since TBC because of backpacking(so if something i say sounds off, thats it!), but trying to keep up with whats going on, and this forum helps a lot, cheers. a week left til i will be back and running! yay.

 

Animosityftw

If you read through all of his posts in this MMO-Champion BlueTracker - Stop wasting GC's time. thread, GC alludes to one of your suggestions that the devs are thinking of implementing. He goes on to say they want to make our rotation cleaner, as well making a note that one of the things they want to do has been suggested before on the forums. After re-reading you're post after seeing his newest post, a betting man would lean towards them using your idea for bloodsurge procs stacking, as well as a new glyph for BT which would reduce its CD by .5 seconds. You have to read between the lines.

 

Polishedhead

Then we'd just bind slam to every one of our abiilities. My guess is based on the fact that they keep going on about TG being overpowered as a single talent, i cant imagine a bloodsurge change because that is also a very powerful talent, my guess is that they are going to sex up one or two of the crappier talents in our tree.

Adding a personal bonus to Commanding Presence/Imp. demo shout/Rampage.

Maybe Rampage reduces the cooldown of Bloodthirst by 0.5 seconds which will simplify our GCD rotation (5:9 -> 4.5:9). - edit, oops, ignore this.

I think it will be more than 1 change too.

 

Machinator

This would't simplify anything since its still more dps to delay WW for a slam, throwing the rotation off. The only way to simplify it would be to take it off the GCD with the problems mentioned, or give it charges. Where is the 9 from anyway? WW is 10, glyphed is 8.

All this stuff about TG being too powerful for 1 point makes no sense though. Practically every class/tree has a talent or several that completely changes how it plays and gives a huge boost compared to putting that 1 point elsewhere. It would be impossible to balance talents like that, and would make the trees themselves completely moot.

"Information is ammunition."

 

Stink

The giant amount of ArP on Grim Toll/Mjolnir procs has been frustrating me as I try to balance my gear/gems around the cap. Rather than have a bunch of stat points wasted while the proc is active, I did some experimentation today with Landsoul's spreadsheet to see at what levels of base ArP it ends up being more DPS to use a different trinket such as [Wrathstone].

Using ideal normal mode gear (non hard mode) such as the set I posted here, the Wrathstone surpasses the Grim Toll at about 65% base armor pen which is pretty easily attainable.

Plugging in the Mjolnir, though, asks for about 83% base ArP before the Wrathstone surpasses it which is difficult to attain in even with hard mode items unless you're willing to sacrifice another key stat such as expertise.

I'd be curious to hear other people's thoughts on replacing these ArP proc trinkets so that we're not devaluing large portions of our ArP while they're active.

 

ZombieRitual

I concur that taking slam off the GCD during Bloodsurge procs would potentially be a good fix. I don't think smart players would just macro every ability to also include Slam. Doing so would pause your autoattack if only Bloodsurge procs were off the GCD, not to mention sometimes you don't immediately have the rage for a Slam after using WW and Bloodthirst. You might have also done a WW + Bloodthirst and also thrown in a Heroic Strike and your still waiting on your autoattack for more rage. Removal of Bloodsurge procc'd Slams from the GCD would just allow for better use of them, instead of letting them rot because you were using WW/Bloodthirst or were saving the rage in order to use WW/Bloodthirst.

 

Darian_TruBlade

If only Bloodsurge procs are off the GCD, normal Slams in a macro with BT or WW would not delay auto attacks; the GCD from BT or WW prevents normal Slams from being cast.

That aside, I don't believe a GCDless Bloodsurge is a complete solution. While it alleviates the GCD issue, it doesn't remove the decision to delay a WW for a Slam but instead obfuscates it behind macros (unless one insists on manually casting Slam). If you don't have enough rage to BT+WW+Slam, either you'll BT+Slam from the first macro and be unable to WW or you'll BT+WW and be unable to Slam (depending on where the proc comes in). The only manual Slam casting will be during CDs from the odd HS proc.

This doesn't make Bloodsurge, or Fury, any more fun or engaging. It makes our rotation essentially the same as it was at launch and it seems unlikely that Blizzard is going to shoot for moving backwards in that way.

"A man's IQ, yearly income, sexual prowess, ingenuity, physical appearance and generally every other aspect of his character can be condensed down to four digits: his Arena rating." - Zechsy [70 Rogue - Skullcrusher (EU) - 10/23/2007]

 

Vulgrym

That aside, GC has expressed a reluctance to take more abilities off of the GCD due to the impact it has on their servers' ability to process data. I read through all of his recent responses, as Animosity suggests above, and I have to agree that they seem to hint at a Bloodsurge stacking mechanism being implemented.

EDIT: swing and a miss! to be fair, I can't recall many "reduce the cost to 20 and shorten the CD by 1" threads, so not sure what he was referring to ...

 

Excession

3.1.3 Patch Notes have been posted. Fury gets:

 

Origence

Hmm 20% reduction in cooldown and 33% in rage cost.

Is an improvement in rage management and that may affect dps but when Ghostcrawler told us to not expect a 25% dmg increase could have simply said don't expect a 5% increase.
BT+WW+Slam is with perfect timing 4.5 seconds, adding human and latency factor it gets close to the 5 seconds BT cooldown has now. On the next BT, WW will be in cooldown and then we can take advantage of the 4 sec cooldown.
Doing quick numbers around 1 BT more every 10. Around +1,5% dps and a little more rage to use on HS.

 

wamai

Think this is a bit off. You'll get 1 BT more BT every 20, not 10. That equates to 5 BTs instead of 4 in the same time. Which I translate to 5/4 = 1.25 => 25% increase in damage contribution from BT. Looking at my version of Landsouls spreadsheet I have about 17% total dmg from BT. Boosting that by 25% gives me a 4.25% dmg boost, without counting the dmg increase from the extra rage free to be spent on HS and WW/BT cooldowns no longer colliding.

Which is slightly more than the buff GC was talking about I think, seemingly cleans the rotation somewhat like he stated anyhow.

 

• Darkmyst

You'll also get get .25 more Bloodsurge procs from BT now also.

 

Airwave2k2

Bloodsurge procs overlap followed BT, when WW will enter into the time between 2 BT's.
If you have something like BT,WW you could decide of using the Slamprocc and delay BT by 0,5sec or eleminate the Bloodsurge proc out of the second BT.
Also you have Problems to hold the dps for . BT(proc) - Slam - WW(proc). The next BT has delay for 0,5sec and when you get a Bloodsurge proc from WW you delay BT for next gcd. Now the Question is if you lose more dps by use the proc or follow the cooldowns of BT and WW.

It could be a nice buff, but the delay in 3 global cooldowns will eat some of the dps. Also imp. Berserker Rage is more delayed because of the higher global cooldown use. The decrease in needed Rage for BT is nice.
In 20sec you will need
old
for 4 BT 4x30Rage =120 Rage,
with the change in the same time
for 5 BT 5x20Rage =100 Rage

In hope this changes will come soon to get us in line.

 

buckba

hey man i am a arms warrior and only am doing 3300 damage is there any advice yall can give me on rotation or my gear and enchants i should use, my blizzard link is
The World of Warcraft Armory
p;ease any help would be great.

 

• Darkmyst

1. This is the Fury DPS thread.
2. Read the Arms DPS thread.

 

KorinthSH

One thing this buff does as well is make the 4pc set bonus for our T8 set better than it currently is; assuming the napkin math above works out it makes that set bonus worth 25% more than it currently is (well, approximately. It'll also impact flurry uptime and the like too, which helps even if slightly).

GCDs will cause us some issues as 4 and 8 seconds don't line up nicely, but typically we have gaps in our rotation anyways so the impact will be minimized somewhat; though in general we'll be doing more in a given time span before which is welcome too.

Overall, not a change I'll object to, that' s for sure.

 

buckba

sorry didn't realize i posted in fury

 

Erfinda

Changes for 3.1.3 are up.

Seems a bit underwhelming to be honest...

Edit: Somehow I missed it above here. Apologies for the double-post. But the buff is still rather mediocre and it seems...lazy

 

• landsoul

Don't double post something that's on the same page at least, that's just plain ignorant!

Visit my Youtube Channel for an increasing selection of warrior videos, including Undermanning, PvP, and LK Raids:
http://www.youtube.com/user/LandsoulWoW

 

Animosityftw

I nailed one of the changes from Landsoul's post! It would have been nice to get the slam procs to stack, but eh, at this point I think we should take what we can get. The Cool down reduction is great, and the rage change is just a bonus. Remember, thats an extra 10 rage every 5 or so seconds that we can throw into more heroic strikes. I wouldn't be surprised to see another very small change, possibly something with a glyph.

 

Polishedhead

While the buff is nice, i'm gonna go completely off topic!

What's the general consensus at the moment with regards to main hand weapon speed? I have a choice between a 3.4 and 3.6 speed weapon with exactly the same stats.

I'm pretty sure that slower is better due to Deep Wounds, Overpower, Whirlwind and Slam but the downside, that being slower and more expensive Heroic Strikes, seems like a heavy counterweight... So i just thought i'd ask here to be sure i'm making the right decision switching to a 3.6 speed weapon.