The "Old" Version had
83 STR
50 Crit Rating
33 Hit Rating

The "New" Version has
73 STR
60 Crit Rating
39 Hit Rating

Stats based on wowwiki info.

So it's dropping 10 points in STR while gaining 10 points in Crit and 6 in Hit...not that sexy really...

I'm not sure what shoulders you are looking at, but the [Conqueror's Siegebreaker Shoulderplates] are exactly the same as before except with ten additional hit rating. The armory has not been updated to reflect this change yet for whatever reason though.

lately checkin wowmeter to see if i was doin somethin wrong
at hodir hard mode (im so low cry!)
i noticed that all top fury dps warrs are usin execute below 20%
does it worth it??
i abandoned it long ago, my rotation was way better dps.
anyone tried it??
any triks?

On Hodir, under Storm Cloud and Moonlight, you can gain a pretty impressive DPS boost by spamming execute instead of slam on top of your normal rotation, since the rage income is through the roof.

I havent tried using it exclusively, though.

PS: I'm Arms btw, so I'm guessing while Fury specced, you should replace HS by Execute during those buffs. OR you could also use it exclusively, your call.

My bad...got this info for the Valorous Siegebreaker Shoulderplates yesterday from wowwiki.com
They've know changed it like you said...á simple +10 to hit for both Valorous and Conqueror's...

They look better then the T7.5 ones...but T7.5 is still better in my opinion since you get a lot af hit from other gear

OK for fury Imp Zerker is a waste. I just can't hit Zerker Rage any more without loosing dps. I'm finding i rarely have an open GCD now. So talenting out of Imp Zerker completely. Fury is turning into arms where you just spam everything. With the change to BT CD and rage cost i think less skilled players will benefit more from this. The skilled players not as much. So another change that's more helpful to mediocre players. While that's not terrible in itself i did prefer needing to play well. Taking 1/1 Anger Management, 5/5 Unbridled Wrath, and 1/2 Imp Bloodrage. Although the last isn't that great and can be used for something else. Just trying to find a way to make up for loosing 2/2 Imp Zerker Rage. With the change to BT rage cost this is still a rage gain minus rage use of +0.58 rage per second vs pre patch. Before factoring in clipping of Bloodsurge and not being able to use as many attacks vs previously.

catch22atplay: I have found that Imp Zerker is very useful in rage dire situations. Like for example if i do not have enough rage for BT or WW the 20 extra rage normally gives me enough to continue my rotation without hiccoughs. I find myself in plenty of situations where WW and BT are on CD. I have HS bound to Mouse Wheel Down and Zerk Rage bound to Shift + Mouse Wheel Down, so I effectively can get one while i spam HS.

That is exactly the conclusion I made a while ago.

The rage nerf to BT accounts for exactly the same amount of rage IBR would give, if you used it perfectly everytime it came out of cooldown. So basically with 3.1.3 all fury warriors have been given an extra passive 2/2 Improved Berserker rage.

This is why I asked a few pages back (In-Depth Fury DPS Discussion) wether or not improved berserker rage was still worth it, as it currently already sometimes feels like it's an unneeded talent, if your gear is good enough or there is enough raiddamage going around.


But what is people's opinion on the rotation now? I've been messing around with it a bit on the raiddummy, and don't seem to find any significant DPS differences between prioritizing bloodthirst or prioritizing bloodsurge slams. Although I assume that with the 4T8 setbonus it should be smarter to prioritize bloodthirst?

I am still prioritizing Bloodsurge when it has 1-2 seconds left and WW is still long on cooldown. I cant prove is better dps but it feels really bad when I prioritize BT, Bloodsurge expires while im waiting for GCD and then im like 4 seconds where I can only shout or use berserker rage. Delaying BT and getting to Slam seems a dps increase in that situation. Chances of BT or HS around same time to proc Bloodsurge would be around 36% only.
So the comparison is 12,5%-37,5% of Bloodthirst damage vs 64% of Slam for the specific situation of using Slam when is going to expire if you use BT first.

About Improved Berserker Rage, I only have one point there and it's slightly useful. I can bank rage for the start of fights, it allows me to intercept if I have no rage. It still helps when I get a rage draught... minor things but there isn't anything specially worth taking anyways. Maybe another enrage point or anger management are the other options.

Looking at WWS today I got same splits for Bloodthist and Slam as always. Not a surprise since I still delayed BT for Slams sometimes. Has someone strictly prioritizing BT noticed a change? Like BT getting around 20% and Slam 4%? Or Increase BT damage without barely losing Slam's?

I'm in the same boat, Xedria. I've been prioritizing my Slam procs over BT, assuming that WW won't come up right after BT. I think this method produces more dps, however it does nag me that I'm clipping so many cooldowns. I also have the 4 piece T8 bonus which, to me, would produce more damage if you slammed only on free globals but this does not seem to be the case. Does anyone else have any feedback from their testing?

By pushing back BT with slam after the first WW, it wont affect how many BT's you will get in a dps cycle.

Ladies and Gentlemen,

Regarding the different methods of rage generation, have we come to terms on an unanimous prescribed "best" way? What I mean is, we have our talents (Anger Management, Imp. Berzerker Rage), but we also have the theoretical (increased values of %hit increase or create "steady" rage generation).

My question is this. At what value of %hit will an additional point in Precision (if you aren't 3/3) be equal to or overtake a point in Anger Management or similar talent to yield more rage than a point in that rage generation talent?

Since rage intake from white hits depends on damage this answer would depend on your gear.

Landsoul's spreadsheet can help you with that. On the right hand side of the fury tab, you can choose your talent point allocation. With this, you can see how your dps is directly affected with the talent swaps.

Specifically, you can find your rage generation figures in cell AH52 & 53.

At the very heart of these discussions, I see the main fact that whomever you want to credit with the original warrior design and implementation, they are either so far removed from warrior adjustments or have moved on to other Blizzard projects. The change to make Bloodthirst a 4 second cooldown just seems so out of touch with the reality of the current fury play style that I have my serious doubts about the direction they're trying to take warriors.

After the change to Bloodsurge that made our rotations a layer of RNG based attacks (instead of an RNG proc in a predictable scenario) that we try to weave into our fixed rotation encompassing BT and WW and the occasional global for shouts or a sunder, I’ve found it even harder to try to manage attacks and GCDs with anything that even remotely makes sense. I've never been a fan of a fixed rotation because that is obviously not the mechanics of the warrior playstyle, there is always the management of your rage that needs a moment to moment decision process to handle well. But this more or less total chaos because of stupid Global issues is starting to approach what I would consider clunky and in need of streamlining.

One solution I would hope they might consider is applying the, though I’m sure probably not entirely intended, 1 sec GCD after the use of Overpower when Spec’d Arms also to Slam when you’ve spent 3\3 points in Bloodsurge. So after the use of the instant Slam proc your GCD would cooldown in 1 second. Maybe it’s a little more elegant than just reducing the GCD for warriors to 1 second (Which I’d doubt they would ever do despite all the reasons for it at this point).

It seems they are continually trying to just brute force on the back end of warrior mechanics instead of trying to approach balance from a ground level perspective.

We live in era of hotfixes, hence changes are small and irrelevant. I know I am a bit cynical, but was really dissapointed with last fixes.

3.2 is coming, fingers crossed.

I have to say the rage generation is better with the change, although I will know more after my 10 man this weekend. But in 25 man I have been happy with my numbers this week so far, I still have much to learn about the new 'clunky' rotation.

When I saw the changes I thought this would be a wrench in the works, and to me so far it has been.

Using a bloodsurge proc if BT or WW are on cooldown even if there's only 0.5 seconds left on the cooldowns and even if it delays both BT and WW by 1 second it's still a dps gain. For this example i'll use the following.

approx 6000 dps gear

BT hits for 6000 average
WW hits for 8000 average
Bloodsurge hits for 5100 average

Now let's say you did BT 0-1.5,WW 1.5-3.0,BS 3.0-5.0,BT 5.0-6.5,BS 6.5-9.0, repeat

Notice first the BT at 5.0 was delayed by 1.0 seconds. Also notice the next WW will be delayed by 1 second. For Bloodsurge proc i have it taking 2.0 seconds to cover for reaction time and latency instead of 1.5 seconds for the 1st BS. The 2nd BS you get an extra 0.5 seconds to react for 2.5 seconds total. So how much did we loose and gain on dps.

WW=1,000 damage loss
BT=1,500 damage loss
BS=5,100 damage gain
Total=2,600 damage gain

Basically if you don't wish to use BS if it delays your cooldowns you can do at most 30 instant attacks every 60 seconds. With this rotation you can do 34 instant attacks every 60 seconds. If all the Bloodsurge procs this is a 260dps gain before factoring in deep wounds which further increases it. If less Bloodsurge procs you get less of a gain. But at no time does it ever do less dps than not wanting to delay a GCD that has 0.5 seconds left or more. However after saying that a warning is needed. If you exceed 0.5 seconds with reaction and latency on Bloodsurge procs you can loose the dps you gained and can go negative if you're real slow. But you can also gain more dps is you're quicker. The 1st BS is the one you can improve on or screw up. The 2nd BS you have plenty of time and can't actually improve it. The gain in dps and even your loss is in your control via reaction time to Bloodsurge procs.

BTW starting with WW is no different then starting with BT except of course WW hits harder so is a gain in initial dps. But starting with BT is only 20 rage which is enough with Bloodrage alone.

Test it and see what you get and let me know.

I am optimised as best I can per Landsouls spreadheet and currently reporting approx 5,700 dps, with 164 hit (3/3 Precision) and 26 Exp.

Yet on the heroic dummies I am still averaging 20-22% miss and 18% glancing blows for basic melee swing and 17% parry for HS. Is this normal or am I missing something?

Also, why do the dummies make me miss more than a real boss, for example XT where I average only 9% miss on melee ? even allowing for raid buffs, thats huge.

Well to get Parried by a Dummy you must be standing in FRONT of it. And at 164 HR, you're at the SOFT cap. Meaning your Yellow Attacks will not miss, but your White Attacks still have a chance.

Advice: Stand behind the dummy.

Also the 2pc bonus, which many seem to scoff at, but it does work off of Slam crits. I don't have the 4pc yet, but I'm already trying to prioritize BT if it has less than a second before it's back, but beyond that I'll Slam even if it shoves either of the other two instants back up to a second. It just doesn't seem logical to not use a guaranteed RNG ability while it's up, which can also proc other effects and by itself is only a very minor loss in damage compared to it's next closest like ability.

I guess that comes from the higher usage of Heroic Strike, which makes a white hit a yellow hit, thus lowering the chance to miss to 0% if you are hitcapped.
Due to the raidbuffs you notice a high increase in terms of rage generation.

But if the miss-rate you're quoting is from your white-hits only, then it would most likely be just a lucky streak because RNG liked you.
The 1% hit you gain from heroic presence when having a draenei in your group is not equal to the ~10-12% higher hit-chance you've had at that fight, obviously.