levk

As far as spec goes it's almost there, you absolutely want to max out 2h spec, I haven't put it up on the calculator, but I'm pretty sure you can get that from your maxxed out UW. There are some minor points but they're preference that shouldn't impact your raid damage any.

Gear wise you're way over the yellow hit cap at 500 something. You need like 165 with a draenai in the raid and precision. You need to regem all the attack power gems to strength, that will net you more attack power because of imp zerker stance and kings. Try to get to the expertise cap you're not that far off. Change that BT glyph to something more meaningful. I would suggest execute at your level of gear, I found the worse your gear is the better all the execute perks are (talent and glyph), once your gear gets better, other things scale past it.

3k would be tough to get out of your gear, but possible depending on the encounter. Use cleave only if there are targets you actually need to damage in range. A lot of wars in pugs cleave the ads on Emalon for example to pad the meters, while they're actually wasting rage in a meaningless fashion. You definitely won't break 3k on Emalon anyway, too much time spent off target.

If the raid you're running with isn't tanked by a prot war, you're the sunder bitch. That will put you further down the epeen list by propelling other melee and hunters past you, but your dps will increase overall while sundering once you get used to doing it. You should look into a buff bar mod that would give a better visual on how much time is left on sunder debuff; I use ClassTimer, it's real ugly, but certainly gets the job done, you get a countdown bar per each of your buffs and debuffs, I start looking for a free gcd to fit a sunder once the bar is half full.

Edit: I'm assuming you're running with pugs at this point, I found trying to time deathwish with whenever they decide to bloodlust/heroism to be a useless affair, just start deathwish+trinkets once the sunders are up and then whenever they come off cooldowns.

 

Randywatson

Your original rotation of BT-WW-procced slam with heroic strike was correct. You can substitute cleave for HS if you have multiple mobs but that should always be your general priorities.

Looking at your spec, you definitely need to move at least 1 point from Fury to Arms to max out 2-handed weapon specialization. 1 talent point for a flat 2% increase in damage? That is one of the best points that we warriors get to spend.

Looking at your gear, always gem for Strength, not attack power. Strength gets a 10% bonus from Kings and another 20% bonus from improved berzerker stance. You are missing out on a lot of attack power by gemming for attack power instead of strength. And why do you have the armor enchant on your cloak? Get the 22 agility for some extra crit or the haste enchant.

You also have an almost obscene amount of hit on your gear. I can see why since you are gearing up but look to replace some of your hit pieces with more crit. You only need ~165 hit rating (5%) plus 3/3 precision to hit cap your special attacks. Extra hit will help your white damage but do nothing for your specials so it isn't as useful as a stat once your specials are capped. You want to get your unbuffed crit to at least 30% (perferably 35% or so) in order to maintain a high flurry and deep wounds uptime. Otherwise, your gear pieces are ok for your level of progression. Just keep raiding and getting some upgrades (The axe from heroic HoL or the belt from heroic Nexus would fit in nicely as well).

One other thing: please make sure that you are utilizing your bloodsurge slam procs every time that you can. There are a number of different add-ons out there to help you keep track of things like that. I personally use EventAlert but there are a ton of different choices. If you don't already have something like that, please find one to make sure that you don't miss any free slams.

Good luck gearing up!

 

Heavygear

If either are available, I still use WW & BT over Bloodsurge Slam procs. Some of these Slam procs even end up going ununsed.
I thought I had read where someone mentioned WW only over a Slam proc, skip BT if you can Slam? I've tried it a few times but usually end up going with WW > BT > Slam.

 

Mojojica

I am currently running as a fury warrior with improved buffs and no protection warrior for sunders. I use IceHud and Classtimer to help me see the stacks/timers, but I do not feel that this setup is efficient enough. Is there a addon out there that will produce sound when the buffs are close to dropping? If there is not one, is there any advice that will assist me in maximum performance juggling sunders, demos, and commanding shout via addons?

 

danyson

Doing sunder 1,5 sec before it runs out can be a big dps lost if ww,bt or slam are ready. You should do it when ww,bt,slam are on CD. At the start of a fight i usually go HS + Sunder just doing Sunder at the start is also a dps lost.

 

danyson

1. Specc Intensify Rage, Drop Heroic Fury, Booming Voice and Enrage
2. Put 2 Points in Unbridled Wrath
3. Replace your red sockets with EXP gems until you hit about 26 Expertise
4. Fury Warrior scales enormously with gear. Your gear isnt that good.
5. Replace 24 STAM with 8 STR 12 Stam gem
6. Drop BT Glyph and use Cleave Glyph

@MasterKazoom
Some play MAXDPS some play MAXSUPPORT.

 

MasterKazoom

concerning the cleave discussion - I also have the cleave glyph and value it on trash and the other scenarios that were described. However, I would not put points into improved cleave for the singular reason that (as far as I know) the damage increase is put onto the flat damage increase of cleave (222 with rank 8), not the whole hit - so my putting in those three points, you will get 222 + 266 = 488 bonus damage per cleave - I'd rather have points in raid supporting talents like demoralizing shout or commanding presence.

 

Emeraude

Improved Demo Shout's use dropped pretty substantially this expansion, as raids don't have to deal with Curse of Recklessness giving the boss additional AP anymore, and Curse of Weakness doubles as an AP debuff and armor reduction, in addition there's no crushing blows or critical strikes to worry about, and if you tank is in any danger due to content design they'll be using cooldowns anyway to mitigate the damage(Thorim, Iron Council, etc). Your two points in Demo Shout or worth less then a 2% damage reduction on physical attacks, and is borderline worthless if your raid uses Curse of Weakness. WotLK Level 80 boss AP - TankSpot. If you don't have Curse of Weakness in your raid keep it I suppose.

Regardless, if you wanted to put points in improved cleave, you'd take them out of improved execute, and/or improved berserker rage, and/or piercing howl. All of which I actually find pale in comparison to the usefulness of Improved Cleave/Glyph of Cleaving in Ulduar.

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=CX81UJZ8
For the lurking Phoenix Wright faithful.
What is the most important thing to you? Won't you grant me the pleasure of taking it away.

 

Randywatson

You are right and I misworded my earlier post. From what I have seen since the changes to bloodthirst, the priority list for abilities is:
Bloodthirst if it is off CD
Whirlwhind if it is off CD
Use bloodsurge procs if both BT and WW are on CD
Otherwise, heroic strike, refresh shouts, or sunder.

There can be some debate as to whether WW or BT takes priority. On single targets, I seem to get slightly better results with BT but the difference seems to be very minimal. On multiple targets, WW obviously gets priority.

 

Randywatson

I agree with Emeraude's statement regarding talent selections. You can fully max out improved cleave and keep 2/2 Booming Voice and 5/5 Commanding presence for improving your shouts.

When looking at the bonus damage on cleave, you would get the extra 120% of 222, which comes out to 266 as you note. However, that extra 266 damage that you get carries over to 2 or 3 targets. If you are cleaving 3 targets, you get an additional 3*266 = 798 damage per cleave. Your use of cleave will vary on fights obviously but, theoretically, if you cleave once every 10 seconds (which can be done very easily), this leads to an 80dps increase. Will it always be this powerful? No. But 80dps is nothing to scoff at when compared to other abilities like improved execute. As for Anger Management, Improved Berzerker rage, and Unbridled wrath; are people really having that big of issues with rage generation? Are you really that rage starved that you would spend talent points in those areas instead of a potential 80 dps increase with an ability you will be using anyway? If so, then spend your points there. I'm going to take the damage

 

Archavenger

I recently started using TellMeWhen. It does not have any sounds, but it does show any buff/debuff/reactive spells/cooldowns. I like this add-on due to the "clock style" timer (just like WoW uses on normal buffs/debuffs). I have a setup for each spec and it’s very easy to switch between them. Just remember that the add-on won’t work until you "lock" the tool bar.

Any other suggestions? I feel good add-ons (better organization/management of data) can assist in improving damage output.

 

Eliminate2

I use mik's scrolling battle text. It tells me when skills come off cd in the form of text. And quartz's target's buff/debuff bar. I unhinged it from the target bar and stuck it on top of my target bar, and filtered it for my debuff. So it gives you an icon plus bar styled timer.

EDIT: Grammatical and spelling errors.

 

Machinator

If you do not delay WW or BT to slam, it doesn't matter which you do first because then you get a repeatable rotation. The question that hasn't been answered is when and how to delay cooldowns for slams, and whether to do that in a rotation or a priority that can change depending on procs. landsoul's sheet tries to model the latter, but it is not very intuitive and hard for a person to keep up with. On the other hand, I have modeled out some static rotations, and the best dps of them are ones that do not delay BT or WW at all which results in BT-WW-BT-Slam over 8(+lag) secs.

"Information is ammunition."

 

Graul

So do these rotations include waiting a full two seconds for either BT or WW to be up even if a Slam is being suspended? You would be giving up an entire Slam just to prevent a ~0.5 - 1.0 second delay on BT. I don't understand how that comes out ahead in the long run, but I haven't run any simulations myself, so maybe it does.

 

Machinator

I still need to do a bit more on it, but that is a general idea behind some of the rotations. Keep in mind this is set rotations that require less on the fly thinking and math, so if you don't get a slam proc you can't just start on whatever is next.

The main reason that the 'hard' rotations are viable is because they are smaller. The example I gave was BT-WW-BT-Slam, and can be repeated every ~8 secs. A lot of people use 2 GCD between BT, which doesn't waste GCD but your 3rd BT won't be until 9 secs after the 1st. Also lag will affect the rotation with more GCD than one with less. I will try to post examples later.

"Information is ammunition."

 

MasterKazoom

my raid usually only brings one fury (for debuffing / buffing purposes, 5% crit etc), and while we have two warlocks, I'm not too sure if they are on CoW duty - ever since SWP, the resident fury warrior in our raid had to keep up demo and sa if no other warrior was present, and as of late due to BoM not stacking with battleshout, I'm also doing the commanding shout. In essence, you could say I'm max support, but due to the recent nerfs, it is not very often that I can shoot for the top spots in the meters anyway.

@Emeraude: I don't use improved execute for the same reasons already stated in the thread - execute spamming is a thing of the past, and only useful in high crit situations, i.e. Thorim. Right now I use it maybe 3-4 times a try as a rage dump. I like the two points in improved berserker rage due to the fact that we recently were attempting Vexax hardmode (and also recently succeeded) - 30% passive minus haste is something that hurts your rage generation alot, and since I was (again) on SA, demo shout, and pummel duty, those two points were worth alot more to me than increased cleave damage. I agree however that the one point in piercing howl is pretty useless, since I rarely have a situation where I need to use the skill - I might have to rethink the distribution of that point.

@randywatson: For the points you agree with Emeraude, read the above concerning rage starvation - no, I'm not that rage starved anymore, but then I don't skill unbridled wrath / anger management. I do skill improved berserker rage because a) there are plenty of useless talents in the fury tree atm, and you need to choose something, and I still don't believe 80 dps for a few seconds of trash is of that importance b) whenever I am rage starved, it is usually do to a flurry downtime or a lot of white misses - I can't use BT or WW, I'm a sitting duck. Therefore, my GCD is unused, which means it is free for me to pop berserker rage to stop the shortage. Sure, berserker rage in a working rotation is a bit difficult (free GCD that is not used for slam being the only case where you can use it), but then in a working rotation you don't have rage issues since it's, you know, working. The combination of berserker rage and blood rage makes rage starvation issues almost nonexistant.

@topic: I also use Mik's, and the instant Slam! procc lights up fairly well - although there are instances when Mik misses one, but I usually have an eye on my buffs anyway.

 

Apolion

I think a better way of putting my question is:

What exactly is the game's mechanic sequence for an attack?

Is it as I understood: Crit/Miss/etc ?

Or is it: Miss/Crit/etc as you said?

 

Jayde

As far as I know, for offensive attacks it's generally Miss/Dodge/Parry/Critical/Hit. For yellow attacks on a two-roll system, obviously the Miss comes first as well, but in a first roll.

 

Inukenshin

I prioritize slam proc's and have no issues.

 

Ihmes

Keep in mind that dps/bear druids also provide the armor debuff with Faerie Fire, and they are quite common nowadays. That means if you put warrior on demoshout duty, you let your warlocks use "better" curses, one extra Doom on boss is much more dps than anything warrior can get with those couple of talent points (2/5 imp demo).

Getting 5/5 demoshout on the other hand would mean harsher sacrifices for the warrior, but for the same effect, the lock need to spec more into affliction and that's also a dps loss since if i'm not mistaken, locks best dps spec is fire destro. I suppose the easy way is to just deal with the 100 or so AP the boss has left.

 

Beefyt

Correct. Most warlocks would benefit from Curse of Doom over the AP debuff. If Emeraude's link from TankSpot is true, Improved Demo Shout gives about 1% physical damage reduction per talent point spent. Our choices for the two extra talent points to spend to progress down the tree tend to favor Booming Voice or Improved Demo Shout. The dps warriors in my guild have organized it where one takes Booming Voice for an extended length Commanding Shout and the other (me) applies the Improved Demo Shout.

@Emeraude. I saw you steal the fire and hearth in org! Much respect for being in the top guild on the server.

 

Eliminate2

The trick I found to hit 2 targets on Kologarn is to stand slightly behind the tank towards the arm of your target (I also find cleaving only works with arm being your target, and body being you extra cleaved target). Imagine:

Right.......Kolo......Left
..............Tank
............You

My raid just shifts towards the left arm just before the right arm dies to avoid the adds. This ensures that I can cleave 2 targets every time. Cleaving 3 targets does not seem possible.

EDIT: formatting didn't stick.

 

danyson

@turbare This question was answered many times. If you are fighting a boss where you have very much rage, using execute is a very good ragedump, but always keep your rotation up since it gives more dps. If you dont have that much rage, dont use execute since it is the worst damage/rage ability.

 

catch22atplay

The spreadsheet estimates dps for a single target. The spreadsheet does not factor in you getting rage from taking damage. Nor does it figure your AoE damage. Nor does it figure gimmick fights like XT. Your numbers are fine for your gear level. On 3 of the 4 bosses you list and actually 8 total that 3/3 imp cleave and the cleave glyph really makes a difference. Topping the charts in a 25 man is doable on at least 4 bosses, possibly more. Expertise and hit does not have to be capped. You'd just do better if they were. But in some cases trying to cap it may be a dps loss. Depends on gain and loss when changing gear. The spreadsheet clearly shows this as well. Fury kicks some decent arse. Your biggest test is the general. Check those numbers and see how you do. Don't use gimmick or aoe fights and try to compare it with the spreadsheet. The numbers just won't match up. The spreadsheet is right. You just need to use it and factor in it's limitations.

 

Anduryondon

Yeah, comparing General with the Spreadsheet makes sense with the 20% Speed Debuff... You could uncheck Windfury/Icy Talons, but you could call it a gimmick fight too (anti gimmick maybe).