Tarasbulba

Have read this thread for a while and most recently took interest in people's comments on Mernakleez/Cleezy and others posts as I suffer from the same fate of not seeming to be able to match other fury dps in guild who have lesser gear and similar spec.

Any suggestions on where I am missing with my gemming or specs in general. Yes I am trying to get some better trinkets and weapons, but am main spec tank called on to do dps (so usually don't get to offspec roll in Uld!) and can't seem to crack 4k in Uld 25 runs.

I follow the same BT/WW/GCD etc approach as many have posted so just want to check if maybe any thoughts on whether I can swap some str gems for ArP gems, noting that I am a JC so can add any of the dragon eye gems! And I just got Belt of Titans so still need to gem it......

 

Yopie Ismypie

Well i've been reading these forums for about a month now and it has helped alot with my warrior dps. I used to play a pally tank, but was asked to bring my warrior to 80 and make him my main. So now I have my warrior decently geared and I have hit 5.5k dps in some fights through ulduar. Now I am hoping that ye guys can answer some of my questions to, hopefully make me a better player.

So I just got earthshaper, but I have noticed that I am raged starved through way to many fights since getting it. My rotation is WW>BL>HS and hitting slam when I can and only when it procs. So with HS I generally am spamming my button like a mad man and hitting WW and BL when cool down is up. This was never a problem before but since getting earthshaper I sometimes run out of rage. Is it because of the weapon? Or something else?

Currently we are doin mimiron hard mode and my dps sucks...highest i have gotten it is 3.9. I'm wondering if ye guys run macros or just individually key bind keys? It just pisses me off to have such crappy dps.

Is it better to keep the 7.5 legs even if it stops me from getting my 8.5 set bonus?

Anything else ye guys can help me with would be greatly appreciated.

 

suicuique

Why would you do that?
T8.5 legs have 81 AP (raidbuffed) and 74 hit more than the T7.5 legs, while losing 8 Exp and 84 crit.
That alone might be a DPS loss (if more than half the hit on the T8.5 legs is wasted), but if you would lose the 4piece set bonus, it's just no contest. Really. Even more so, now that BT is on a 4 sec CD.

 

D4vE

Your dps will go through the roof on phase 4 of Mimiron as fury warrior. Spec imp cleave and get the cleave glyph and you should easily score top5 in dps meters in this fight.

 

Gruntle

Sure, in a fight where you can be sure that you will have rage for the next WW/BT, whatever you do a given gcd (in principle this means a rage income of 20 rage per sec, again only from damage done to you, which in all honesty seems pretty unbelievable), the execute change is a clear nerf. Is it really true that you have enough incoming damage to sustain this in WoTLK raiding?

The important thing is that it becomes a lot easier to use Execute in (what I would think) most fights since you can always make sure that you will have the rage for the next WW/BT/Slam. I don't get what you mean by high rage executes yielding "higher dps"? A 100 rage execute will of course hit harder than a 30 rage execute+HS, but you will not be able to use it as often in most fights (while being certain that no more important attack will be missed).

edit: Clarified some things.

 

suicuique

Hodir, Thorim, IC, Mimiron and Freya in their hard mode version certainly offer no shortage of rage, to the point where HS was almost spammable even as Arms.

 

levk

@ Tarasbulba

Honestly 4k is actually pretty much on target for your gear in a non-gimmick situation, you should think about how you use deathwish and such - if you only use it once a fight you can definitely pick up a lot of damage by using it more.

Without putting your stuff up on the spreadsheet I don't think you need to worry about arp. The spreadsheet will always be the end all answer as to how you gem/enchant.

Удачи

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@Gruntle

First there are the gimmick fights where you're rage capped most of the time, and there's a good number of them. Then there's quite a bit of environmental damage present on most encounters coupled with your own swings usually end up with enough rage for execute spam on gcd, these usually end up in the 30-40 rage range though so it's either better to skip execute or, with a disclaimer "don't try this at home," there's a lot of healable damage you can choose to take. The game is a long way away from original naxx and twin emps where healer mana was at a premium and lacked multitarget tools; a lot of shit is just straight healed through - so if you ninja taunt an add or stand in a fart cloud for a bit you will spam execute at 70+ rage each. What this change will do is really remove the very last part - no need to do stupid shit like that anymore. This change won't move execute up the food chain though, they'll need to work on its damage to do that.

 

peter

If every fight is a "gimmick" fight, then do the gimmick fights become the new normal?

E.g.
razorscale .. the adds need to go down, is it a gimmick to hit 6k dps because you have ae?
ignis, the boss needs to die, is it a gimmick to have the rage to spam hs?
thorim, phase 1, ae needed
xt, 8k dps from using cds during the heart.

perhaps, besides calling it a gimmick, try and understand that this is by design. BLizzard added gimmicks into these fights to balance out the dps classes. that plus tank and spanks ala patchwork are BORING. mages/ranged get theirs for iron council and hodir, its just natural that warriors top the meters on other fights.

a "real" gimmick imo, is meter padding, like hitting the constructs on ignis, or tanking the plummers near the melee on xt, stuff that doesnt help the strat at all, but is just there to pad meters

 

Ferboten

Wouldn't using WW on the constructs increase your flurry uptime, thus increasing single target damage on ignis?

 

larindra

@ Tarasbulba
Swap your weapons. Jawbone is slower than Demise and has 80 more average damage-- your melee and HS hits will be much higher with it in your main hand.

The spreadsheet will tell for certain, but I'd suggest losing the arp and crit gems on your belt and gloves and go str and str/crit (when you want to match a yellow socket). You're also missing the extra BS socket in your gloves, looks like. Free extra stats = win.

 

Tengarez

I have been looking at landsoul's spreadsheet trying to figure out what gear I should pick up to respec fury since my guild finally recruited a feral druid. I have very good arms gear and most of my pieces can get carried over, but a few things are still confusing me.

What weapons should I use for fury that doesn't require 25 man hard modes? I currently use the tier 2 pvp axe but according to the spreadsheet it is even worse then both of my betrayers. What weapons should I pick up for fury? Or is the spreadsheet incorrect about this?

I have access to all 10 man hardmode loot, and anything in 25 man pre hard modes, please help.

Thanks

 

Kaan

@Gruntle: Rage is no matter at any time and encounter (with my gear). When there is high environmental damage too, I waste like 200000 rage a fight and breaking my finger with endless HS spaming (a litte exaggarating) . So imagine a execute phase in this fight, without the 30 rage limit and with: the DPS loss from execute is phenomenal. And there are many fights that are just like this. It is because of this fact, that I tend to see the change as a nerf, especially in the most important fights like Yogg-Saron and Algalon, altough execute isn't important and after the change will even be less important - it will be most certainly a GCD filler / minor "rage killer", not more - but this is a clear nerf on fights that are especially tough, which are most times the more important ones.

@Tengarez: According to spreadsheet (and personal opinion) Betrayer isn't the better weapon in the mainhand, but in the offhand, compared to Tier 2 PvP Weapon. Try to get Aesir's Edge for mainhand and Rune Edge for offhand, that will be the best weapon setup until dual Voldrethar in the most circumstances.

 

Polishedhead

@ kaan: Aesir's edge dualwielding has better stats according to my math but i guess you're considering dual 3.6 speed weapons to be bad, in which case i have to agree. I got my second Aesir's edge yesterday (replacing Worldcarver) and haven't been able to enchant or test it yet but i just know that weaponspeed syncing is going to screw me over.

@Ferboten: Yes it would, as well as increase your uptime on procs such as Berserking and Trinkets. Do correct me if im wrong here as im not 100% sure. I remember this was my excuse when i always moved near the second add at Twins in Sunwell before i used Whirlwind while not going out of melee range of first add ofcourse.

@peter: Not considering what Ferboten said for a moment, the only situation i see that not taking the pummelers near the melee is a good idea is when you're not doing hard-mode but you have easy-mode comfortably on farm. Other situations being you're doing hardmode in which case you will want the first 1-2 robots to be dead or you're just learning the fight on normal mode in which case you won't want an offtank with 6 adds on him in the last 25%.

 

Grive

Recently I have been acquiring better best in slot gear as we grind through our hard modes. I have been following Landsouls spreadsheet to the tooth and 'am now at a delemma. With recent upgrades, my armor penentration has skyrocketed and my AP wiith it, whereas my crit has been dropping. The spread sheet says my DPS has increased by quite a bit, which is great and I have noticed it. Ive tried different combonations of gear and weapons and nothing short of having to completely regem for expertise is all I can come up with just to gain a percent or 2.

Before we did any really tough hardmodes my crit was sitting at 48% buffed whereas now I can barely top the mid 30s. I went from non-stop HS spam to being afraid to even click the damn button for fear of missing close to 5 seconds before I get barely enough rage to BT. Ive spent hours trying new variations of specs, rotations and such but have come up empty in finding the best spec variation vs gear to keep my crit at the golden 35%+ Since Iam not the greatest at crunching numbers I was wondering if anyone in the community can see a fatal flaw or something I may have over looked. I am also hoping that the answer is to just deal with it for now.

Armory - The World of Warcraft Armory
( according to landsouls spread sheet, if I replace any arp gem with str or vise versa I loose dps. So I think Iam walking a fine line there)

 

KaiserJohan

Try getting either of the trinkets with crit in ulduar; 10man hardmode thorim is best. Also get another rune edge instead of worldcarver -- imo it sucks, alot

Also, I cannot bother adding all your ArP up, but it seems you have quite alot more then needed to reach the 'soft' cap I believe with a ArP trinket, so you could drop +crit instead of ArP gems. It may be drastic, I know, and prolly wont give you as much points for it, but atleast it buffs your much-needed crit.

And crit is king.

 

Kaan

Then you're math is wrong at least for me, I'd say. In the mainhand Aesir's Edge beats Rune Edge because of the 3,6 speed benefiting well for whirlwind / slam. In the offhand this is not the case. Offhand does 62,5% as you surely know, so it's not that relevant to whirlwind - and the offhand doesn't slam. The stats on Rune Edge are simply more and thus superior however, which makes it a superior offhand compared to Aesir's Edge. But I agree in your point that dual same speed is bad. I'm just happy that this isn't the case anymore (and won't be again unless I get 2 Voldrethar which isn't very likely to happen). Flurry uptime is higher, but rage flow is worse and you will miss some deep wounds when both weapons crit at the same time (this is an old bug and I believe it wasn't fixed, and even occurs with whirlwind when both hits crit). Offhand Voldrethar is for me +63 DPS over Rune Edge, but I'm not really convinced this would be the case with the bugs still remaining, at least if you're only hiting one target.


@Grive: You can change your metagem to 21 Agility +3% Critdmg, and then socket only 1 blue gem, that beeing [Enchanted Tear] and replace the other one with 16 Str. This would increase your DPS a bit.

 

Polishedhead

For reference Rune Edge Vs Aesir's Edge including kings and using str gems is:

102 crit rating and 6 arpen vs 223 ap and 23 stam (or 228 ap for JCs assuming you gain 2 str from getting the 6 str bonus). ...close call either way.

 

catch22atplay

I figured i'd test an Enrage spec and see just how often it would proc in Ulduar. Wanted to know the overall dps compared to my normal spec. Results for me as follows.

Enrage spec

0/0 anger management
4/5 unbridled wrath
3/5 enrage
0/2 imp zerker rage

Normal spec

1/1 anger management
5/5 unbridled wrath
0/5 enrage
1/2 imp zerker rage

Enrage uptime=6.4%

Ulduar all bosses up to Mirmiron. Did not do Vezax, Yog or Alg. Simulating dps based on spreadsheet as follows.

3/5 enrage=6351 dps
4/5 enrage=6358 dps
5/5 enrage=6365 dps

if 5/5 unbridled wrath add 6 dps to each of the above, however cleave damage and hence aoe fights would loose dps. Assuming the point came from cleave and it should. So not really sure on average what this is. 6 dps gain on single target and xx loss on aoe targets. May end up being an overall loss.

Normal spec=6366 dps

Observation and opinion. I hated it. While now and then i got the extra damage i wasn't able to Heroic Strike as much overall. Consequently my dps suffered from the lack of rage and way more than the numbers above. SImulation may say one thing but it felt worse than the numbers above. After every boss i wanted to switch my spec back. But held off doing that as i wanted to get a complete log. It may be viable for some. But seriously i don't really need to aggro mobs on Razor to inflate my dps even more for that fight. While it may work for some, it just wasn't working for me. I was disappointed as i felt severely handicapped on some bosses. And General Vezax dps i should imagine would blow as we need all the rage talents we can get for that fight. So i'm giving this enrage spec a pass for now. Maybe with more gear it'll be viable. But i'm not optimistic about it. Perhaps the new raid coming out will favor it. I don't do instances on the PTR. So i haven't a clue if it will.

 

Kaan

@Polishedhead: Yes, Aesir's Edge is on the spreadsheet only 20 DPS worse, though we know both, that dual 3,6 speed will yield a higher DPS loss than only 20 - some times rather 200.
To make clear why I said "more stats": 102 crit and 6 arp are clearly more for me, than 223 AP. And I think it should be the same case for you too, probably even more because your crit SEP will be higher than mine with ~9-10% less crit chance. SEP on my sheet: 2 AP: 0,7576 (as always), Crit 0,8934, ArP 1,0737.
btw. landsoul listed it rank 2 after Voldrethar, on the offhand dropdown panel in the spreadsheet.

@Catch22atplay: Big thanks for the test. I tested it some while ago too and had about the same results: Enrage isn't worth it. It frustrates only to see it not proc almost all times. Only Thorim (p1) was remotely nice with this spec, I'd say.

I think most certainly not. What Enrage - as you stated - needs, is the player to get actually hit a lot by direct damage spells or melee attacks, to be effective, which is again and perhaps forever, very unlikely. It tends to be a pvp ability again like the former version of the talent.

 

Origence

Is not valid to average Enrage uptime throughout all the fights. The damage you might do at Razorscale will do nothing to Ignis for example.

Without having adds hitting you the only fights that can guarantee a good enrage uptime are Ignis, Auriaya and Freya with around 13-26%. Uptime is subject to a lot of randomness too since is only a 30% chance to proc when being hit. In those 3 fights I think Enrage it's superior to Imp.Cleave, Unbridled Wrath or Anger management. In all other fights is worthless if you don't grab an add as Enrage bot, which is not much viable or helpful anyways.

And still it might be enough to justify putting some points there. I have seen many people with Imp.Cleave and in the only fight it does help is Mimiron. Though I understand we prefer a talent that depends on us using Cleave over one that relies on being hit.

 

Grive

currently I sit at 50.03% unbuffed and when grimtoll procs its an extra 49.69%

After reading this and the other posts I will definitely make some changes. However, I am thoroughly confused at what you mean by the "soft" cap of armor pen. I was under the impression that you cant have too much. I have heard that 40% passive and above is perfect and having more is even better and there is no current cap that is possible in the game.

 

Kaan

@Origence: It is valid to average the uptime of Enrage through the whole raid (without trash), when you need to decide which spec is overall better.
Imp. Cleave is best in trash + Thorim, I'd say btw.

Armor Penetration is caped on 100%. This includes Battle Stance, Mace Spec, Procs and passive Armor Pen on items and excludes Sunder Armor, Faerie Fire because they reduce the armor of the boss directly and your own Armor Pen is calculated on that Armor left after that. So you are for example, almost perfect caped with Grim Toll active, where an Arms Warrior in Battle Stance would be ~10% and an Arms Warrior with Mace Spec ~25% over the cap.

 

schit

I noticed that the spreadsheet clearly favors armpen when it sorts the gear. Almost all BiS gear has armpen. I found Godbane Signet (off Yogg) listed as BiS even though to me it looks more like a rogue ring: agi, crit, expertise and the all-pervading armpen....

My warrior
The World of Warcraft Armory

has pretty good gear now (I am way over the hit cap and expertise, but I am planning to switch my weapons for 2 Aesir's Edge, and that will drop my hit considerably), and my guildies have suggested to drop strength gems and regem for armpen. However, the spreadsheed does not show any dps gain from doing so (I replaced all gems with armpen gems). With the new gems I gain about 10% more armpen, which will put me at 35% roughly.

The only dps increase, according to the spreadsheet, comes if I pick up 2x Aesir's Edge and get a armpen trinket. Then the spreadsheet shows about 100-150 dps gain. I see that as being pretty small. I currently do between 4000 - 5000 dps, more on some fights.

I recently picked up the Fury of the 5 Flights trinket, however the spreadsheet shows Mirror of Truth as being better.

What do you guys think?

Note: for some reason, te armory stats do not correspond to my in-game stats, which are:
AP=4959,
Hit 440,
Crit 27.47, (29.30 with Mirror of Truth)
expertise 38/43

 

Kaan

Get rid of the Expertise and Hit now and don't wait for other items to drop that eventually will do the job for you. Replace the Pyrite Infuser with Fury of Five Flights (or better DMC: Greatness). Socketing looks fine but use [Enchanted Tear], its the best blue gem besides JC gems.
Godbane is fine, not because it has "rogue stats", but because it has more stats than most of the other rings, one of the stats Expertise, which is the best stat until caped.

 

Bodhvar

I keep seeing people mention 2x Aesir's being a bad option due to the synced weapon speeds. Exactly how bad is it really? I currently have 1x Aesir and 1xStorm Edge, and I know Rune Edge would be ideal for the OH, but in our guild I'm not sure if ill be up to get Rune Edge anytime soon if it does drop (still not 1 drop yet).
However, I actually have a good shot at getting a second Aesir's. Obviously stat wise it blows something like storm edge out of the water, but what kind of problems does the synced weapon speeds cause?