Part of the reason i did the testing was because people exaggerate their dps gains on certain bosses. They assume Enrage is proccing more often than it really does. So they assume a 100+ dps gain. So here's Ignis for you. But read my final comment as well as it's a bit more detailed.

Enrage uptime for Ignis was 11.6% for me. That makes the dps look as below. Again using the spreadsheet.

3/5 enrage=6369 dps
4/5 enrage=6383 dps
5/5 enrage=6398 dps

add 6 dps to each of the above if 5/5 unbridled wrath instead of 4/5 (see previous post)(it's a high rage fight so it's probably 1/2 this amount at a guess)
Subtract 25 dps if zero points in Unbridled Wrath (it's a high rage fight so it's probably 1/2 this amount at a guess)

normal spec=6366 dps

I'd like to point out one thing. If you do the encounter correctly the average enrage uptime should be approx. 10%. That's being generous and having Ignis Flame Jet every 30 seconds and not every 40 seconds. Never timed it and the strat says between 30-40. RNG or luck if you prefer can increase your uptime as it did for me. But yes for that fight enrage spec was superior. That was the only fight that it felt so. Also being Slag Potted may trigger Enrage as well. I wasn't slag potted so i can't confirm this. I would assume it does. However being in a bosses fist with a % damage buff that you can't use doesn't really help much. Although you will get out of the fist with part of the buff still remaining. If it does proc while being Slag Potted it means your chances of having Enrage go off during Flame jets are now reduced. So overall if you get Slag potted and Enrage goes off call it a loss vs it not going off.

With an estimated Enrage uptime of 10% i get the following. Just wanted to see what this looked like.

3/5 enrage=6362 dps
4/5 enrage=6376 dps
5/5 enrage=6388 dps

add 6 dps to each of the above if 5/5 unbridled wrath instead of 4/5 (see previous post)(it's a high rage fight so it's probably 1/2 this amount at a guess)
Subtract 25 dps if zero points in Unbridled Wrath (it's a high rage fight so it's probably 1/2 this amount at a guess)

normal spec=6366 dps

I'll also add that this is a high rage fight and the difference between both specs is actually further than indicated. The added rage talents for the normal spec aren't as helpful as normal. Hard to get a precise number on this one. Possibly increase the difference by up to 20 dps. Assuming 1/2 the extra rage from talents being wasted for the normal spec. So either add 20 dps to the enrage spec or subtract 20 dps from the normal spec to get this difference between them.

Now let's say for example that all rage talents are completely useless for this fight just to see what happens. Normal spec would be 6300 dps and the 5/5 enrage spec would be 6363 dps. A max gain of 63 dps or 1% to be precise. That is the absolute max it can do based on 10% uptime as that's 1%. Well actually it's 67 dps according to the spreadsheet. But you get the picture.

The main point of testing was to see if enrage would be a viable spec for all of Ulduar. Mainly i'd think people would dual spec fury/arms or fury/prot and not spec fury/fury. Although i did spec fury/fury and still am during this testing. Personally i think a fury/arms dual spec makes more sense. Arms for General Vezax and fury for the rest. The question then would be which fury spec. Therein lies the reason for the testing.

@Bodhvar:

Synched weapon speed can cause the following:
- bulky rage generation which results in wasted rage / not able to execute every GCD, if needed (weapons hit at the same time), unless you desynchronize them by engaging in battle only when you are already standing next to the enemy. No need to mention this isn't always possible or working.
- less deep wounds dps if the bug is still there: when both weapons crit at the same time, you'll apply only 1 deep wounds stack.

However, Rune Edge is superior to Aesir's Edge even without any of the above mentioned problems. The offhand is more a matter of stats, than DPS and speed.

Bodhvar, if you have 2 weapons of the same speed, the rage generation will be spiky, while if weapons are of different speeds you will have a more smooth rage generation. I have been raiding with different speed weapons and same speed weapons as fury warrior and the difference is hardly noticeable, i still have full rage bars during boss fights. I would say, go for the highest damage weapons even if they are of the same speed.

Hello,

First excuse my bad english, I'm a frog

I'm here for a question about Armor Penetration for fury spec. I'm using the Spreadsheet and I've noticed something strange. A kind of "cap" at 41%-42% of ARP.

I have done my best in slot choice in this version of Speadsheet : http://madrimaus.free.fr/Celestius/W...06aExcel97.xls page "Fury".

If I change a Strengh gem for a ARP gem, the calculated DPS goes down for 4 points and more. So what's the deal ? A cap exists for the ARP ... ?

Thanks

There is a soft cap for Armor Penetration if you use [Grim Toll] (~50.32%) or [Mjolnir Runestone] (~46%). This means that once you reach this soft cap, Armor Penetration is worth roughly 20% less and thus it is better to gem strength or strength/critical. If you use neither trinket, then you only have the hard cap to worry about, which is of course 100%.

I have made a small page that tries to explain why this is the case: Why ArPen is bad after 50.32% with Grim Toll.

I'm confused as to why, considering both Grim Toll and Mjolnir have the same proc, that the softcap would be any different depending on which trinket you use.

Also, why does the spreadsheet seem to show strength becoming more valuable than ArP at around 46-47% when specced fury and using grim toll, and around 50% in arms when using grim toll?

Edit: I just looked into it a bit more in regards to my first question, apparently the proc is 665 ArP and not 612 like on Grim Toll.

[quote=Saizul;1313033].

Just macro your bloodthirst to /startattack, macro heroic and shattering throw to /stopattack. When you run out of range hit the HT button, when you run back in BT. No problem.



Salzul, can you please elaborate a bit over those macros ?

Replace your normal BT and HT bindings with these macros, or else append the start and stp attack commands to your current macros.

You just dont actually start your attacks until you are within melee range of your target, and when you drop out of melee range, you toggle off your attacks again.

It really isn't hard to manage if you get in the habit of trying to toss a heroic throw whenever you are out of range anyway, and just mash BT when you are back in the hitbox.

Saizul: Thanks. I do toss heroic throws as much as i can. You are saying that these macros desync your weapons if they are of the same speed ?

Quoting myself from elsewhere -

Those macros just take the "right clicking" out of the equation. /startattack is equivalent to rightclicking a target and entering attack mode, and /stopattack is equivalent to hitting escape and exiting attack mode.

Thanks Levk - will try that out tonight! Fortunately also picked up a DMC Greatness so can swap out DMS Death finally - assume better to keep Mirror of Truth with DMC Great rather than using both DMC cards.

Tremasja

I had thought from prior analysis in this thread people suggested berserking MH and Executioner OH??

I have put Berserk on MH and swapped weapons around

Any thoughts on the trinket qn ie DMC Greatness is a no brainer and keep Mirror of Truth or DMC Death? (of course until get better trinket )

Yes, back when the armor reduction component to the Zerking proc was 20%. It has since been reduced to 5%.

Mirror of Truth > Darkmoon Card: Death, by a good margin. Check in Rawr, check in Landsoul's spreadsheet.

Yeap, i wouldn't mind a little more meat on those macros either ^^

btw i'm only popping in to check before re-swapping MS for fury dps, and its been a while

Anyway, i had another question on this; basically to my experience it doesn't matter what weapons you use for DW as long as they are with as high dps as possible, but the way i used to deal with same-speed weapons was simply starting with just 1 2h'er equipped MH, 1swing and then equip the other, which also bought the tanks some time to get threat before the pounding started for real - would this still also be viable as an alternative to macroing heroic and shattering throw?

You can only startattack when directly at the mob, otherwise it would not be desynchronized, so you'll lose some damage every time, cause human reaction will limit you. Without doing this you never toggle attack off and can spam BT/etc. before going into melee range. So your attack will directly go off - otherwise it would every time be delayed a bit. So it's a illusion you will always have desynchronized weapons without losing some DPS trying to desynchronize it every time. For example Mimiron, Yogg-Saron: It's pointless to try this there every time you have to run or run away from a enemy - you will lose more DPS than playing normal all along. Its mostly good to desynchronize your weapons for Patchwerk-like fights however.

Best weapon in MH is a good rule of thumb really. You can even go by ilvl. Jawbone is a no brainer.

Zerking is miles better than exec, I only have it on my OH cause it's cheap.

Death isn't in the spreadsheet, but the proc is about 50 dps and doesn't scale so I'd say mirror is better.

Having both weapons synched can be annoying when you get miss strings, but it grants a small bonus on flurry uptime, since both your weapons will use the last charge. When you miss you don't lose a charge, so this effect is not enormous, but in the long therm it still provides a better haste and rage generated.

During fights where there is a lot of raid damage I don't find myself starved in either case, so I try to have both weapons synched because of higher flurry uptime (and with a swingtimer I can better dump high rage executes without delaying other abilities). During fights where I am a bit more starved I prefer to have desynched weapons for a smoother rage generation.

For what I could notice misses strings tend to starve you in both cases and smoother rage is not always a solution, but more a playstyle, and personally I prefer the synched style since I find it more similar to Arms' way of generating rage (in therms of pace) and I am more used to it. Probably who used to be Fury in TBC prefers the smoother rage gen and prefer to desynch regardless if it was a dps increase.

There are points in favor of both: smooter rage gen vs more flurry uptime and more total swings. In therms of raw damage I think synched weapons are slightly higher, but the execute phase can change quite a lot between the 2 "styles".

Saizul I wasn't intending to insult you. I know all of your points are valid, however, mines are too. I don't think I'm exaggerating the problem, cause I don't see it as a "problem", but only as a thin disadvantage and this it still is.

I'm not at all intending to say so - not at this point at least. However, didn't want to say, but this topic is anyway irrelevant at this point of WoW. The 3 best weapons are: Voldrethar, Aesir's Edge and Rune Edge. 2x Voldrethar is king, after that, Voldrethar / Rune Edge, Voldrethar / Aesir's, Aesir's / Rune Edge, Aesir's / Aesir's and the worst of all: Rune Edge / Rune Edge. Aesir's Edge in offhand is not worse because of synched speed but because of inferior stats and more or less useless slow speed in offhand (which is not in mainhand and thereby sets off Rune Edge). So it isn't important at all what we discuss here, you take what you get and that it is. Could change with 3.2 however, if we have weapons with the same stats but with different speeds.

About "4th flurry charge" with synched weapons: I heard some time ago this "bug" isn't working always, or at all. Anyone knows perhaps more about that? I'm remembering it had to do with the server / client arrangement.

I just tested it on a dummy before posting, so I'm sure it is working with a reasonable range of latency (90 minimum to 240 on some spikes) resulting in a 0.2s delay between weapons at max.
I'll try to collect a longer sample to check if there is a treshold, but the combat log showed flurry to fade off AFTER the OH swing few hundreds of ms after the offhand log row.

I have a quick question on gemming. Once you get to 46/50% ArP with either GT or Runestone, gemming strength is better than gemming ArP anymore? Is there a point when ArP becomes better than str even after you're at 100% with proc?

Reaching the cap means that you cant reduce the boss armor anymore so stacking more Arp is just wasting stats.

What's the best piece of T8 to leave out? Shoulders for [Shoulderplates of the Eternal] or legs for [Plated Leggings of Ruination]? And I'm also having trouble getting expertise without a Worldcarver and am forced to socket almost everything expertise. Bad idea?