You're referring to the soft cap due to MR or GT. Without those trinkets, ArP SEP keeps rising the more you stack it (although not as fast as Arms of course) until you hit the hard cap of 100%. If you do however have either of those trinkets, then yes you are better off just gemming Str after hitting the soft cap.

With some of this Coluseum gear I am finding that Mongoose will make its comeback if your crit rate is low and your Ap is very high. I think also we will be stacking ArP once Mjolnir Runestone is dropped for a better trinket. Also, Executioner comes ahead once you get a rediculous amount of ArP.

We're going to be concerned with ourselves now juggling between 3 different weapon enchants as we gear out, depending on what our stat relationships are.

I also was able to put a gearset together that easily reached the 1232 rating ArP cap with the available gear that has already been discovered. The SEP for ArP reached a whopping 1.4733. With a complete loot list, I'm pretty sure I could put a set together that allowed you to reach the cap as well as get some socket bonuses.

How much dps was the sheet giving you when geared out in coliseum gear, and whats the gap between fury and arms looking like? If it gets even bigger then it will probably be worth it for guilds with just one dps warrior to go fury instead of going arms to buff the ferals like most guilds do now.

I really dont understand the idea of "buffing the ferals". Gap is already bigger between arms and fury than between ONE feral getting trauma or not. The NUMBER of ferals is irrelevant here - you can have 24 ferals in raid, and still only ONE will have to put mangle up, so arms warrior will take the burden of ONE of them.

If what you say is true, Landsoul, then it would be reasonable to expect either a change in those old enchants or new enchants to come out. Hasn't Blizzard stated it doesn't want us relying on old world enchants that are better than new ones? At what approximate level of ArP are you discovering Mjolnir can be dropped for favor of, say, the new Greatness-like trinket?

Is there any better trinket so far besides Death's Choice? If ArP is good enough to consider executioner then its hard to see Mjolnir being dropped for anything besides another ArP trinket, and thats after you replaced the 2nd trinket with DC anyway.

I put a bunch of PTR gear in to see how it compared, a couple observations:
-Gearing up will be annoying since the pieces that have exp or hit are usually not the same slot as now. Conq T8 gloves have 60 exp, but so far there is no gloves in 3.2 with exp on them at all.
-I haven't added the tier bonus to the sheet but the tier pieces seem to be better than other gear at the same level anyway.
-There is a general lack of hit gear.
-There are a lot of yellow sockets.
-Hopefully a couple more 2H are discovered. Everything so far ilvl 245 and up is 3.6, and matched speeds are annoying.

I honestly prefer matched speeds machinator. If you careful , you can desync them - and in a actually *perfect* way (both hit every half swing time). If you dont need a desync (encounters with tons of rage), you can actually sync them, so you get more flurry uptime. Its simply better control over what happens.

I just don't see an extra 1% flurry uptime being worth the hassle, especially on fights with a lot of movement. And while you may gain flurry uptime while synced, you also suffer more from misses, but the sheet doesn't cover that aspect right now.

Also how do you desync so one is every half swing? Is the OH delay not a flat .5s anymore, or was it ever?

I don't think there has ever been something like a flat OH delay, but you can desync your weapon as follows:
Do not right click or /startattack on the boss while out of melee range, but rather run to the boss and hit a /startattack macro when in melee range. Your weapons will now hit perfectly desynced, so if you have 2 3.6 speed weapons, the mainhand hits at 0s, offhand at 1.8s, mainhand again at 3.6s and so on.

I believe the delay from starting attack in melee was, or at least I thought was .5 sec. But that was from BC times and I never bothered to check myself. Either way its a minimal difference in dps, and may be a decrease.

What's your opinion on a Death's Choice, Call of the Victor combination? I haven't scoured all of the new loot extensively enough to see how much expertise is to be found, but Call of the Victor looks like it's at least equal over time to Greatness, but with superior "on demand" damage that works better with Death Wish/Bloodlust and seems like it could be superior on movement based fights as well. This is going off the assumption that the cooldown is two minutes of course.

Unless you are using Heroism/Bloodlust at the start of the fight how are you lining up a proc trinket? Unless you mean the chance that it will not proc during lust is low, then I agree but its not guaranteed.

Either way Victor's Call, or Vengeance of the Forsaken for horde, just doesnt have the uptime to compare with other trinkets and its AP. Even assuming the proc is the whole 1250ap for 20 seconds with a 2m cooldown, its better than things like wrathstone or pyrite infuser, but still is about 20 SEP below Grim Toll/Greatness/Runestone ect. I would rather gem for the expertise, which would ensure I don't go over cap by much as well, and just stick with greatness or an ArP trinket to go woth Death's Choice.

Minor Rant: Having to look up what Victor's Call was because the same trinket is called something different for each faction is going to get old fast on the forums. Not only that but the same trinket with the same name has different effects if it came from normal or heroic. I guess poor landsoul will have to add 4 items to the spreadsheet for "Victor's Call"

Hey everyone,
I know this may drive some of you batty and for that I do apologize but I gotta admit I'm still confused a bit and was hoping you guys would be able to shine some light on this for me. I've been going over the pages and spread sheet you guys have and was surprised to really realize how low my arp was (26.79%) and was curious as to how you all felt about gemming for it in lieu of str gems. I know that even regemming it'll only bring me close to 38% and didn't know how badly this would potentially hurt my dps. That and with the patch coming out soon would you all say to just wait it out and not sweat it until I can get my hands on the new teir gear.

The World of Warcraft Armory

And again thanks for any help!

http://elitistjerks.com/f81/a45-here...p_me_not_suck/

Download the spreadsheet and work it out

When you say go over the spreadsheet what exactly do you mean?

Because if you open it, load your gear, and switch all the gems from Str to ArP, it will tell you exactly what the DPS difference was and you can decide for yourself whether it is worth it.

Where in that process do you get confused?

I looked through the last 10 or so pages and couldn't find an answer to this: I was wondering why Anger management is a better talent to take than Improved Execute 2/2. I noticed some people running 19/52/0 and had always used 18/53/0 so I was wondering if something had changed since the last time I played fury.

Also has anyone played the fights on the PTR to know if a lot of cleaving is going on in the Colliseum?

Thanks

That's not entirely true. Execute isn't such a great ability these days, yes, but it should be used to replace HS - and Slam if else you would overshoot the bar. There are even situations where rage gain is so high, that you need to prioritise it over BT & WW before wasting tons of rage (eg. XT, Hodir, Thorim), using 50-100 rage Executes every GCD. Overall I'd say it always depends on incoming rage, how often you'll use it - but it is always used to replace HS.

It's definitely going to be something to consider in 3.2, but I can't think of any situation currently where I would ever prioritize Execute over Bloodthirst or Whirlwind. We also generally don't have Bloodlust up at 20% and I typically don't save a haste potion and Death Wish for it either as it's not worth it just on the off chance that I'll be able to eek out two more Executes than I normally could. While I do occasionally blow Recklessness charges on max or near max rage Executes, that's really only two and I am rarely so full of rage that I could do even a 50 rage Execute each GCD while still being able to keep Bloodthirst and Whirlwind on cooldown without having to wait for the rage due to a miss streak.

First of all: Sorry for my english, i'm not a native speaker.

About Execute replacing HS: Has someone done testing/math about this? I haven't, but i always had the feeling that the opposite worked better for me.
I'm playing with very low hit (<200 rating generally), first t8 bonus and of course HS glyph. Negating all those mainhand misses by turning the swings into styles (which also brings impale to the plan) always seemed to be such a good deal, that i didn't even consider to stop heroics just to bump some more rage into executes.
Has anyone some hard data about this?

Edit: I have to specify: In those situations where i'm absolutely flooded with rage so that i only spam execute to get rid of that ragebar i also stop HS. But thats only to make sure, that i don't miss a single GCD due to zero rage and an converted whiteswing. But in "normal" fights where i priorize WW and BT over Exe i used to keep up HS.

Remember that execute still hits for rather low amounts. Dont bring your arms experience with SD here - remember that executes for arms hit 20% harder (WC/TG penalty), while other skills hit lower. Using my LS spreadsheet average AP (8500) you can see that BT hits for (I ignore everything that doesnt apply to only one - so counting execute as 1456+AP*0.2+38* Rage)

4675

While execute hits for

3156 (Base)
up to
3346 (20 rage)
3726 (Max rage)
4296 (Talented+Glyphed - both are rather unusual in current raiding)

Execute IS low damage. WW hits even harder then BT, additionally BT atm has a crit bonus.
Remember that WW/BT ratio/rotation is fixed, so if execute causes a 0.5 sec delay on BT itr will cause it on WW as well, so with WW hitting for average of 4912 an execute is a possible dps loss even at 1.5 sec delay caused to BT/WW rotation.

Wrong. Execute - Spell - World of Warcraft

15 base cost = 3156 (taking your numbers)
+
85 rage x 38 (additional execute damage) = 3230

= 6386 (100 Rage Execute non-crit), which is a lot more than WW/BT can hit for (non-crit). Highest BT ever with my toon was ~12500-13000. Highest Execute ~15500-16000.

With Glyph: 6766
With Glyph and talented: 6956

Some examples (standard Execute):

20 rage Execute: 3346
25 rage Execute: 3526
50 rage Execute: 5056

Edit: Just noticed you're using 3.2-Execute for comparison. Well... don't mix up the future with the present I'd say. Until then, Execute isn't that weak. 3.2 it will probably become a GCD-filler / HS replacement only.

@Graul: Well, they are rare situations for sure, but all I said, was, that I rather ignore BT/WW some times and execute more often, than waste 100 rage and more. There are times this would occour when playing with the normal rotation (only using Execute to replace HS, some times Slam). In this case executing excessive rage out, is certainly more DPR than going with standard rotation and wasting hundreds of rage in whole Execute-Phases (coming to mind: Hodir, Thorim (hard), Mimiron hard, Algalon, perhaps more).

@Lifthrasil: It depends. When you can HS and Execute simultaneously probably it's better than just executing, due to the HS mechanics I'd say. However it's very tricky because Execute burns all rage and HS, at the same time, prohibits your main hand to generate rage. Seems suited only for high(est) rage situations, otherwise you could miss some Executes by doing this, which, on the other hand, probably will be a DPS decrease.

Quick question

On the spreadsheet under the breakdown section it has this for me

Ability DPS Percent
Melee 1033.127 15.23%
Heroic Strike 1902.529 28.05%
Bloodthirst 1390.343 20.50%
Whirlwind 862.155 12.71%
Bloodsurge 522.027 7.70%
Deep Wounds 1072.421 15.81%
Sword Spec 0.000 0.00%
Execute 0.000 0.00%
Rend 0.000 0.00%

Other 0.000 0.00%
Total 6782.60 100.00%


Is this what my damage on wws should look like. If so is anyone else trying to get close to those type of numbers. little high on the HS imo.