In-Depth Fury DPS Discussion - Page 8

alkis · 12/08/08, 7:15 AM

Originally Posted by Midgehh

Fury warriors only need 142 pre wrath with 0 points in precision

Currently 1% hit = 32.78998947
32.79*14 = 459.06 with 0 in precision

Your information is a little confusing to me, I see it as something more like this:

White Hit
Base Miss: 28.0%
Base Hit Rating Cap: 918.12
Precision: 3%
Gear: 11%
Actual Miss Chance: 14%
Hit Rating Needed to Cap: 459.06

If I'm reading your chart right you're trying to calculate the ADDITIONAL hit rating you need to cap out your auto attacks.

The cap you should be concerned with is the special cap, which is assumed to be 14% (recent evidence suggests it was lowered to 13%).

0/3 Precision: 459.06 Hit Rating
1/3 Precision: 426.27 Hit Rating
2/3 Precision: 393.48 Hit Rating
3/3 Precision: 360.69 Hit Rating

I tested this on the heroic dummy and between 500+ yellow attacks I got no misses with only 10.19%. Image attached.

aylene · 12/08/08, 3:48 PM

Originally Posted by Ellurion

Anyway will question. Is it possible to have 8.4% miss with 320 hit rating?

That's the log from some previous post. There is only 8.4% miss on white attacks.

Wow Web Stats

Since that was me, I wore more hit rating than armory implies. I believe I had slightly overcapped hit rating not counting Heroic Presence as well, since I got a few upgrades before Patchwerk (not clearing abomination wing first) so I didn't find time to rebalance my stats via gemming and enchants in the middle of the raid. Also it's a fairly short fight so luck probably had something to do with it as well.

Ellurion · 12/08/08, 4:41 PM

Originally Posted by aylene

Since that was me, I wore more hit rating than armory implies. I believe I had slightly overcapped hit rating not counting Heroic Presence as well, since I got a few upgrades before Patchwerk (not clearing abomination wing first) so I didn't find time to rebalance my stats via gemming and enchants in the middle of the raid. Also it's a fairly short fight so luck probably had something to do with it as well.

Yea i guess it's random factor. Tried to do the same dps, but it was like 4k dps only. Guess need to better gear. :|

Is t7 last bonus is that good? It's seems you are almost spamming heroic strike.

Aegien · 12/08/08, 4:55 PM

I'm questioning at this point of I should respec. I'm above the expertise cap and am considering re-allocating those points elsewhere in the Fury tree.

Would improved execute or improved cleave be worthwhile? I use cleave in multi-mob situations and it seems to work out well for me dps wise and figured that this may be a good investment seeing as I use it. Does improved execute stack with the glyph - effectively giving me 15 more rage for executes?

Daronsk · 12/08/08, 5:05 PM

I'd highly suggest just dropping expertise in your gear set. Having run the numbers on various high end gear sets its just not worth going over cap then coming back and taking the points out of your talents. Enrage was already shown to be not worth while and while imp execute is the next best thing to pick up in a cookie cutter build, its just not that valuable over all.

Aegien · 12/08/08, 5:08 PM

Originally Posted by Daronsk

I'd highly suggest just dropping expertise in your gear set. Having run the numbers on various high end gear sets its just not worth going over cap then coming back and taking the points out of your talents. Enrage was already shown to be not worth while and while imp execute is the next best thing to pick up in a cookie cutter build, its just not that valuable over all.

This was my initial thought - however it's easier to respec than simply to start replacing pieces. I would of course spec right back into it provided that I did receive new gear that dipped me below the cap.

Origence · 12/08/08, 8:48 PM

I tried to use Rend (and heroic Throw) whenever I could last 2 raids. And both it came to do 1% of my damage. It's something that can be done for fun and keep things interesting on tank n' spank fights but I wouldn't recommend it as ways to improve dps.

For both abilities I wait to when BT doesn't crit and WW is on cooldown since there I have 3 free seconds. For heroic Throw I watch the swing bar like old slam as arms 33/28, if someone can recommend an accurate swing bar it would help too. And for Rend I macro'd it that with 2 clicks I go to battle stance and rend and then I go back to berserker stance just in time for BT.
This week Naxx's I will be able to compare against past week results to see if my dps is higher or lower when trying to squeeze Heroic Throw/Rend.

Anyways these are the wws of me trying to use rend WWS & WWS

Midgehh · 12/09/08, 1:54 AM

Originally Posted by alkis

I tested this on the heroic dummy and between 500+ yellow attacks I got no misses with only 10.19%. Image attached.

I'm pretty sure I read in a couple places that the heroic dummies were level 82. Raid bosses are 83 and thus would result in an additional miss percentage.

Tho as far as I know, no one has tested this on patchwerk or something similar so I very well could be wrong.

Steveharris · 12/09/08, 2:24 AM

Don't forget that some classes have buffs/debuffs that add +hit. Parrot druids and shadow priests I believe add melee hit, so if one of them was attacking the same target, that would affect your miss rate.

Midgehh · 12/09/08, 3:17 AM

Originally Posted by Steveharris

Don't forget that some classes have buffs/debuffs that add +hit. Parrot druids and shadow priests I believe add melee hit, so if one of them was attacking the same target, that would affect your miss rate.

Imp FF and Misery only effect spells, and not melee attacks anymore unfortunately.

Heaton · 12/09/08, 3:26 PM

Just a question, are any of you warriors still DW 1h's or are you all using TG? I was thinking about going back to 1h's just to see what my dps is like. Well, thats once I get new gear (only done 10man naxx once since it came out)

Montegomery · 12/09/08, 6:12 PM

At this point TG is fairly assumed. Most of the advantages that DW 1h Fury had at 70 are lost at 80 as TG is able to pick up Deep Wounds and 2H Spec.

Sabrewarrior · 12/09/08, 10:10 PM

I was messing around with the talent and the only advantages of 1h dw fury would be to get incite or 3 points in a weapons spec. TG is just too powerful because of the massive stats on 2-h and 40 more damage per weapon.

Fjeenzy · 12/09/08, 10:10 PM

Just a quick question;

Does anyone have any dps-calculations of Spirits of the Lost - Spell - World of Warcraft

Talking about the four part bonus of t7/7.5. I have no clue if it's even managable to calculate it's possible dps-output, but it'd be nice to know if so.

landsoul · 12/10/08, 1:59 AM

Originally Posted by Steveharris

Don't forget that some classes have buffs/debuffs that add +hit. Parrot druids and shadow priests I believe add melee hit, so if one of them was attacking the same target, that would affect your miss rate.

Misery and improved faerie fire only effect spell hit.

Anyways, when I cleared Naxx tonite with 6.25% antidodge, I had only 1 dodged sunder armor which was on Faerlina. No dodges from the rest of the instance, or any clears in previous weeks. I have the sunder glpyh that applies a second sunder to a near target, but there were no other targets near the boss. Anyone seen any other strange things dealing with expertise?

Graul · 12/10/08, 3:12 AM

Originally Posted by landsoul

Misery and improved faerie fire only effect spell hit.

Anyways, when I cleared Naxx tonite with 6.25% antidodge, I had only 1 dodged sunder armor which was on Faerlina. No dodges from the rest of the instance, or any clears in previous weeks. I have the sunder glpyh that applies a second sunder to a near target, but there were no other targets near the boss. Anyone seen any other strange things dealing with expertise?

I haven't been going with less than 19 Expertise (can't really help it), so not so far. In TBC though I only had 6.25% and only saw a total of one dodge over a five month period.

Schneeb · 12/10/08, 3:35 AM

Originally Posted by landsoul

Misery and improved faerie fire only effect spell hit.

Anyways, when I cleared Naxx tonite with 6.25% antidodge, I had only 1 dodged sunder armor which was on Faerlina. No dodges from the rest of the instance, or any clears in previous weeks. I have the sunder glpyh that applies a second sunder to a near target, but there were no other targets near the boss. Anyone seen any other strange things dealing with expertise?

What do you mean by strange? I have the same expertise (17 + 2/2 WM, which should be only .25% from cap?) and see very few dodges etc - Will double check exactly how rare tonight on a naxx clear.

Morsexy · 12/10/08, 4:04 AM

Originally Posted by Morsexy

Just an interesting note, [Fury of the Five Flights] only stacks to 5 (with glyph) with WW attacks.

Also about using execute, I actually do not believe that is the most damage. A WW crit may be the best attack, rage wise and most chances for flurry but I believe execute should now be used in the exact opposite way it was before. Whereas before you tried to spam executes on every GCD, now with all the passive haste + hero your swing timers are absurdly low, and the nature of how execute works, it is still better to spam execute. That is in my math the lesser of two options. I think that given those speeds, once you have WW on CD sub 20% and Deathwish and Heroism up, your objective is to double white hit, Execute, same, Execute, same, Execute.

Coming out of this you can WW if you happen to be low rage from non crit miss, or something random.

Currently during execute both white weapons net me ~60 rage, thus it doesn't matter if WW is close or better for ~20-30 rage executes, you're rarely going to be firing execute at that rage with proper CD usage.

Originally Posted by Graul

This of course is all based on the assumption that Bloodlust is up during 20%, most of the time for us it drops off around 20% - 15%.

Just moving this here from the simple\answers thread. Tonight on Patchwerk going for the 3 minute achievement ( we killed in exactly 3 minutes!) I did 5457 DPS with a heroism at around 65% boss health or in other words, during Deathwish cooldown.

WWS link

I've really been trying to perfect my method of Reck ->whites ->Execute x 3 and tonight I had my first nearly flawless use of this and the damage was great. When I gain Recklessness at 51.5 seconds then white hit at 51.531, which was intended but I'll never ever do again, I then execute more or less on the GCD for more damage than I would WW and 2 x Execute. This was a fairly bad sample for the execute damage as I've had 3x 13k executes but not in as good an overall DPS session.

I really prioritized making sure HS was almost always queued up, to the point that at around the half way point I rage starve myself and I can't BT on cooldown, but I feel as though you're better off in the long run trying to run out of rage 'smartly'.

Shha · 12/10/08, 4:41 AM

Originally Posted by Graul

I haven't been going with less than 19 Expertise (can't really help it), so not so far. In TBC though I only had 6.25% and only saw a total of one dodge over a five month period.

I definitely saw a dodge with 6.25%. However it really was A dodge - only one over few weeks.

Edit: Interesting enough my dodge was also on Faerlina.

Origence · 12/10/08, 8:43 AM

With 17 expertise and 2/2 Weapon mastery, 6.25% dodge reduction total I had 8 dodges in a single raid.

This is the WWS Report

I rather go for 6.5% and remove the RNG to get dodged attacks.

Daronsk · 12/10/08, 10:09 AM

From everything regarding expertise that I have seen the conclusions to draw are that 6.5% is the true cap if you want to eliminate every dodge on a boss. However, I suspect after looking at a ton of WWS logs and from what people that run 6.25% have been saying (and we all probably ran this for months on brutallis) is that the true cap is around 6.3%. So since we can't get expertise in .05% increments you just have to ask yourself if that .05% dodge is worth the 8ish expertise rating.

Grayson Carlyle · 12/10/08, 10:14 AM

The random dodge, about 1 in a few hundred have consistently been reported all through Sunwell with 17 experitse. It's been widely known for a while now that the dodge rate of bosses is either some very small amount over 6.25% or there is a tiny amount that we cannot overcome. Why are we asking about normal things as "strange" things?

landsoul · 12/10/08, 11:23 AM

I just don't understand it at all. This is the first dodge I have had in about a 8 months with 17 expertise. How can other people have 8+ in a single night?

Faeviactus · 12/10/08, 12:13 PM

Maybe 17 Expertise is just a display number and you can actually be higher than it without it showing?

çasualty · 12/10/08, 12:13 PM