2% extra crit versus BT crits,no contest even,more rage generation,critting off cleaves,whirlwinds and whites ontop of BT makes it a no-brainer and gives a bit more rotational lee-way


Ulduar BiS was 4piece + HM Levi25 legs,the Tier legs were about a meh on the gearscale,only useable really if you had a gaping expertise need.

Now the BiS has shifted indeed to 4piece + gloves. Only entering the tier9 scene i'd recommend saving for shoulders and chest as your 2piece - 2pc bonus and pure stat upgrade on the chest,keeping 2piece t8 for haste bonus till you've assembled the other 2 pieces.


As for the tominator...failbot is the only thing to describe that,to anybody browsing through these posts do disregard him entirely

Cleave is wonderful for alot of fights throughout Ulduar. If you look at some of the fights where fury warriors excel, you will see that the cleave ability is well represented.

I think it is a mistake to retain the old "only single target DPS matters" mantra. Most boss fights have an add presence, and in almost all of those the quicker the adds die the better it is for the raid. Ignis and Emalon are the only ones where add damage is useless, and where DPS is "artificially" inflated by WW and cleave. On Razor, Kolo, Auriaya, Freya, Mim, Thorim and Yogg my top 3 damage abilities usually include both WW and cleave. Of course using cleave on a single target fight is worse than using HS....but who is using cleave single target? To top it off, unless your raid doesn't have ret paladins or arms warriors there is no reason to spec into booming voice and commanding presence. Imp. demo shout is nice for the raid, but aside from that you have unbridled wrath (which sucks too but really no other options) and improved cleave. While imp. cleave may be lackluster, it is still better than the other options in that part of the tree, and far better than imp. execute imo.

For fury... I have a dilema... My Main spec is prot, but for raids sometimes I'm used as DPS. My main hand weapon is [Edge of Ruin] with Berserker enchant. For my offhand weapon, I have a 2nd [Edge of Ruin] and I also have [Ironsoul]. Both of these items are unenchanted atm. Which item would give me the best bang for my buck, I'm thinking about putting Berserker on it as well so I dont want to waste the gold on a inferior item. I tried using the spreadsheet but for some reason it wont work on my laptop. Any advice would be nice. Thanks.

You can also test this on the old spreadsheet by adding 2% crit to the dummy stats and toggling off the 4Pc bonus. (Or even comparing 3/5 Cruelty + 4Pc to 5/5 Cruelty. This is less accurate but gives an idea of the kind of stuff you can play around with.) In both cases the 2% crit came out slightly ahead for me, for the reasons I've quoted above. Factor in the upgrade in iLvl alone as well and it really is a "no-brainer".

Ive browsed the past few pages in this thread, but has there been any discussion on execute versus heroic strike?

Obviously, BT/WW sub 20% are still going to be superior, and in situations where rage income isn't an issue, you are able to spam HS anyways. However, are there any models/discussions talking about the net DPS gain/loss of spamming heroic strikes sub 20% even if it begins to take away from your execute damage?

Most of the posts seem like people abandon HS sub-20%, unless they have high rage, but with the glyph and raid buffs, the crit chance of heroic strike on my character screen is roughly 52% (a bit higher, but its reduced due to the boss level versus the 3% crit debuff) making the rage cost rather minimal. The gain of heroic strike is impale, prevention of glancing, and higher damage, but if you dont crit, its a 12 rage loss that could potentially reduce your execute strike damage, or even possibly make you hit a rage starve for a second or so if you are not careful. Currently, I can spam heroic strike virtually non-stop and I will rarely have to worry about rage (above 20%), and with the the four piece tier 9 bonus, it will only be better. I have tried both in raids, but I haven't had enough time to fairly test either, and I am not smart enough to sim it out.

Bustter - [Edge of Ruin] over [Ironsoul].

What you are giving up is .67% ArP and 0.15% Crit Chance to gain 16 Strength. Especially in a raid environment, Kings especially, and even your Strength buffs that you gain from being Specced fury. Both weapons are the same speed and hit for the same amount. It will be a very minimal difference, but I believe it will be the best overall setup.

Only thing I'm posting about is the fact that booming voice is a very big talent. Even if your raid HAS arms warriors it is much better for you to be putting up Imp. Demo then the arms warrior due to your free GCD's and the arms warrior having no free GCD's. Considering demo shout isn't just "nice for the raid" it's essential for the raid, someone needs to put it up. So that extra 15 seconds on your demo shout allows you to refresh it far less often over the course of a fight. Also I'm sure putting up a 6 minute commanding shout is better then hoping everyone will be in range for the warlocks imp, so commanding presence is a good talent to have as well.

Demo shout is only really an issue for 10mans now that ret puts up imp demo with less dps loss to do so than we do... So as long as your 25m has a warr for imp commanding, you don't need it as arms.

Bustter the decision on which weapon gives you the edge is really one you need to look at carefully based on your own gear. Personally [Ironsoul] is the winner because of its ArP but one good ArP item would change that making 1 or 2 [Edge of Ruin] the best way to go.

I'm a firm believer in stat itemization. I come up against strength stackers a lot and beat them. Now when I say this keep in mind I'm Herbalism/Alchemy and I'm coming up against Blacksmith/Jewelcrafters with extra gem slots and jewelcrafter gems. The extra strength they have should be enough to beat me down but it usually isn't. I'm sitting at almost 100% ArP when Grim procs, my expertise is 28 passively and if a yellow gem bonus is for crit/str/arp I'll use a crit gem instead of the standard +20str or +20arp. +26 crit/str/arp > +20 str at least with my current Sep. I have 1 yellow bonus thats +4 hit the difference in the sheet is like .00345 when I swap gems so I used a crit because I'd already had it made but I probably would have used +20 str if I had one handy.

I must agree here, the new hitbox changes have been insanely fun for Ulduar, on those two fights in particular. Being my guild's raid leader, I stack Kologarn fights in my favor to try in pull out ridiculous numbers:
World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

How do you figure?

Any damage cleaved on to the body and left arm is legitimate damage. Our raid always has enough cleave damage on to the left arm to justify killing it on every attempt.

Our kills usually go.. Right Arm -> Body -> Right Arm -> Left Arm/Body -> Win

Noob Question:
Where do I download the most recent version of the spreadsheet:

I could not find any link from :
Warrior DPS Calculation Spreadsheet
(and the thread seems to be closed)


Fury DPS Spreadsheet for 3.0
Gave me a "File Unavailable" error.


Lastly any tips for a using the spreadsheet on a Mac ?

Thanks in advance and great discussions on here.

With the new itemization of gear, ie. Normal and Heroic gear having the same name, only slightly different stats, it's probably just taking a little longer than usual. As mentioned on the Spreadsheet post, I'm sure Landsoul will let us all know when it is ready.

I know personally I've had trouble locating the 'correct' piece of gear, but they should be fully itemized after Anubarak is available to kill, and Heroic bosses start dropping.

Would you mind putting down the exact macro that you use?

That thread is closed until Landsoul finishes with his newest version of the sheet. He's making numerous improvements and tweaks as I understand it, and it's taking far longer then anyone (even he) expected. Just be patient and pray that he has a cancelled raid [sorry Landsoul] so he can code that which needs to be coded.

In the mean time the newest version of the sheet that he did release is out to lunch in many respects and probably would not be that useful. It's missing all of the new gear and gems, the latest changes to warrior talents and (according to Landsoul's post re: slippage) makes a few false assumptions when running the DPS macros.

I hate to ask you guys to rehash previously covered material, but I'm just now making a push to gear up my fury warrior and I can't for the life of my find concrete numbers for the following information:

Max DPS hit cap - is it 8% (164 with precision)? Or is gearing for more better?
Expertise Cap and should I gem for it over STR - or enchant gloves for it over 44 AP?
Best Metagem
Unbridled Wrath 2/5 or Booming Voice 2/2?
Imp Execute or Imp Zerker Rage?

Thanks.

- Gearing for more is not better. After cap hit is probably the worst stat to gear for.
- Until you get close to the cap, Expertise is worth more than Strength.
- I'd say the best meta gem is +21 Agility, 3% crit damage, since it frees up one more blue gem, which is the worst gem for us.
- I go with Booming Voice so I can catch more people with my Battle Shout/Commanding Shout. I guess that for personal DPS Unbridled Wrath is better.
- Between those two, I'd go with Improved Execute.

The 21 Agi/3% critdmg and the 21 crit/3% critdmg metas are very close to each other. Depends on what second socketbonus you would get with a second blue gem. Additionaly you're sometimes in the situation that you're gemming for expertisecap or ArP-softcap (with Grim Toll/Mj Runestone) where a 10 ArP/15 stam or 10 Exp/15 Stamina just fits better than pure 20/34 gems (assuming the first blue gem to be always +10 all stats). If all that comes together the chaotic meta should be in front, with crappy socketbonus and no gemming issues the agility one should be...

Remember, hit cap of 7% requires a draeni to reach the 8%. Only assume 7% hit cap if you can guarantee a draeni.*

The best meta gem depends on slot bonuses.

However, I have found that running the spreadsheets shows that the 21 crits is simply better. Use a nightmare tear and a siren's tear. Don't believe me? Run the numbers. 6 str, 6 agi plus the slot bonus (at least 4 str in most cases) is on par with 10 str 15 stam and slot bonus. Plus you can put it anywhere, blue or yellow (But obviously you will see the biggest fury gain if you can activate 2 blue slots with the nightmare tear+siren's tear).

Crits are almost 1:1 with strength when you near the higher end of the raiding spectrum. Agility is about .75 strength at the same point.

Also, there are arguments for imp zerker rage and imp execute here... Depending on your glyphs!

If you glyph execute, then get imp execute. If you don't, then you probably don't even gain that much from execute spam over your standard rotation anyway, plus you lose out on a lot of proc chances (conq set bonus 150 haste for example).

I would have to see your tree to comment further, but you actually have a few options with those points.

You could 4/5 unbridled. You could 2/2 booming+2/5 unbridled. Or you could go Imp execute+imp zerker rage. One thing to note, all my comments below are under the assumption you have intensify rage 3/3.

I personally think imp zerker rage is play style dependent, but it certainly helps out initial rage generation. Also, if you consider it as part of your rotation, it yields 60 rage a minute, or 1 rage per second for 2 points. Not only is it far better than anger management (20 rage per minute) it is usable when you need rage, rather than when you don't. The only concern with using it is when you need to avoid fear (Auriya for example). But even then, you are still gaining the rage benefit, you just are using it during her screams instead of when you need rage.

Also, even one point into imp zerker rage yields 30 rage per second, still returning more than anger management.

*Sorry, I was mistaken on the hit % as was stated by the next poster, I edited as to not reduce the rest of the post, as it is on topic and relevant.

Stop confusing people with outdated information. The yellow hit cap is 8% in WotLK. Period. If you have a Draeni, you only need 7%. This information is covered in multiple threads throughout the site. It used to be 9%, but that was Classic->TBC. It has always been 8% in WotLK.

Hitcap is 8% without (!) draenai aura!

Sirens tear might still be on par with a 10 str blue, but as i posted before, it's more likely that the chaotic meta is on top of the agility one, if a 10 exp or ArP/15 stamina just fits very well to get closer to a cap. In case that you just want to squeeze out str/crit from that second blue it's more likely that you should go with agimeta anyways. (i know that i just did the opposite for the case that someone's stalking my profile , working on that! )

And for imp execute vs zerkerrage.
It's true that zerkerrage gives a lot of extrarage, but it also costs 3 global cooldowns per minute. Don't forget that. If you're playing with a warriortank who keeps up sunder armor/demoshout by himself it can be possible to fill in these 3 GCDs (although i don't think anyone can do constantly without loosing dps due to lagging of styles). When you have to care for sunder/demo by yourself you definitely can't!