Hi since ive used the spreadsheet a lot and since its really been working for me the past iam kinda sad there is no version atm that is uptodate (btw thanks to Landsoul for his effort in this) Since i kinda use the spreadsheet alot i havent been paying alot of attention to what stats is really shining atm. So ive got some questions for you "nerds"

ArP in the 3.1 spreadsheet it seemed that at 47% strenght become a more superior stat however has this changed? i hear people talking about 100% arp and 50% arp, If that is so should i change my strenght gems to Arp Gems instead again?

And if so at what % does strenght catch up with ArP since iam kinda lost atm seen all this stuff about high Arp.

Well i guess this is my question for now

Are you playing with Grim toll/Mj runestone?

With Grimtoll

It's the point where you have enough passive ArP to get 100% with trinketproc. More passive Arp is still a good stat, but useless during the proc, thats why the SEP go down at that point.

Edit: I'd stay with your 47% as long as you're wearing gt.

Well since i got abit better gear now tho iam up to around 56% passive Arp and have Grimtoll. So basicly i will gain more socking it down to 47% and use strenght instead then!

Correct me if iam wrong!

Around 46% str seems to take over Arp assuming your using runestone.

This might be a stupid question, but why is Hit rating such a bad stat to have after the cap?
Melee is one of our top damage output, and hitting more obviously means more melee damage, not to mention more rage regeneration. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Roughly how much rating should we sit at as fury? Sreadsheet says about 150, but that seems so low.

Once you reach the soft cap (which is ~8% hit), additional hit rating only lowers the rate of white attack misses. Yes, more hit means more rage, but all of our other offensive stats also affects rage generation. So while hit rating isn't a wasted stat for a Fury warrior, it's either on par or worse than haste rating (and certainly worse than any other offensive stat) past the soft cap.

Well, since Landsouls new spreadsheet is not out yet (nothin against it just sayin I am having problems deciding what to do with my emblems of triumph.

I am extremely hesistant to break up my T8 4 piece set bonus (the one that gives you +10% crit chance on BT...etc). My problem is that I am getting single pieces of gear that alone are better than my T8 gear, however when factoring in the T8 bonus I'm not sure that they are better for dps overall.

So far I've gotten a belt and gloves from 10 man ToC and almost have enough triumph emblems for the shoulders (T9 shoulders I think?). So would breaking up my T8 bonus be worth it do you think?

I am not going to T9 until I have my 2pc, going for Shoulders/Gloves first becasue they meld greatly with my S7 Prot PvP set.

I have a doubt about Shattering Throw.
When having 100% Armor penetration from gear either trinket proc or passively and the target has both major and minor armor debuffs what's the effect of Shattering Throw?
It's not really easy to test since it requires external help for minor armor debuff and 100% ArP preferably passively without any kind of AP proc, and then get data from the hits you can do in less than 10 seconds. But a single Bloodthirst should be enough to check.

Boss armor is 10643. With Sunder and FF it gets down to about 8089.
With 100% arp, due to its formula, you are able to drop him down to 315 armor that is 2.026% DR. Shattering Throw brings the armor under 7616 (the maximum value at which you can remove the whole armor) so you actually gain up to 2.068% damage.

Would it be safe to simply summarize it as follows?

The more hit rating you have over the cap, the more often you hit with white attacks (although not as hard), so the smoother you generate rage.

The less hit rating you have (still over the cap, and assuming that the hit rating was spent on equivalent amounts of crit/arp/str) the harder you will hit and thus rage generation will be spikier?

I've found that with my latency typically from 250-350, gearing for more-than-minimal hit rating allows me to more easily control my rage and results in an actual DPS gain.

Anecdotal this might be, but logically it makes sense, no?

Yes, more hit rating will make your rage generation smoother.

Gearing hit rating over any other offensive stats shouldn't increase your overall DPS though, unless you're not paying attention to your rage at all. The majority of your white attacks will still land with 8% hit (81% of them to be exact) and you can easily make up for spiky rage generation through a minimum of rage management and good usage of Bloodrage, as well as Improved Berserker Rage if you got that talented.

I'm sure someone good with numbers can come up with the actual chance of missing twice in a row, missing three times in a row and missing four times in a row, with different hit values. I think we'll find that 8% hit vs 13% hit isn't that big a deal in the big picture.

So I had a question to all the fury warriors on this thread that I was hoping to get some help on. Currently, with Grim toll proc'd, I have enough armor pen to reach the 100 percent cap, with 80 arm pen left over theoretically in waste with grim toll proc'd. I have been messing around with Landsouls, maxdps.com, and Rawr (which all 3 seem to disagree with each other, not surprisingly at all) to figure out further itemization. I know its not the easiest question to answer and is largely dependent on personal stats, but what is the best itemization to go for at this point? Taking off Grim Toll will drastically reduce dps, even when replaced by something like the banner of victory. Further stacking Arm Pen will only help out dps when the trinket isn't proc'd. My hit is only 171 which hurts my white hits quite a bit, and some dps there (about 20 percent miss rate+glancing blows) but I have enough rage gen from armor pen to be rage dumping like crazy. My expertise is only 9, and only about 2-3 percent of my attacks get dodged, which doesn't seem like a big deal to me. Haste doesn't seem to be that important compared to the stats on other items. Any general suggestions/comments on arm pen/itemization once at the 100 percent mark with the trinket proc'd?

Armory link: The World of Warcraft Armory

Getting your expertise to 25-26 should definitely be your first priority. If you are using Landsoul's spreadsheet, you should notice that the SEP for expertise if far higher than any other stat, for your gear set up. 2-3% dodge rate doesn't seem high to you?? How much do those dodged attacks hit for? It will be expensive and painful to lose those +20 strength gems, but until you pick up pieces that have expertise on them you really need to regem to the expertise cap. Your hit rating is fine, but don't dump any of those hit gems since you need them to remain above 165.

With GC confirming the nerf on Armor Pen, would it still be viable to be stacking armor pen? I believe its gonna be like 13 ArP Rating for 1% if I'm not wrong.

Doing some sort of Taylor approximation, an actual ArP SEP of 1.136 will turn into 1 after the patch. Just toying with the spreadsheet, that drives the point when ArP becomes more valuable to roughly 70% passive.

You can actually get the exact results if you're so inclined. Go to E86 on Landsoul's spreadsheet and replace the formula there (used to calculate the ArP ratings for different levels) and paste in 13.99572719, which is the new ArP value (from this thread). Voila, the sheet now acts as it will post-3.2.2. EDIT: Of course, having looked at the formula more carefully you can also just change the 1.25 at the end to a 1.1 and it will work just as well.

From my tinkering with it, it would still be worthwhile to gem to the ArP softcap with Mjolnir even after the nerf in my current gear. That's somewhat general, though, so your mileage may vary.

Prior to the ArP nerf it was possible to achieve 100% armor cap pretty easily while retaining 4-piece bonus. Post-nerf, I don't see any way to retain the bonus. It's still possible to cap ArP (at least as a JC/BS Orc) but I don't think it's worth dropping from 4-pc to 3-pc.

:EDIT: I mean passively of course, the hard cap of 100%, not the soft-cap while using a Mjolnir Runestone or Grim Toll.

:EDIT2: Confirmed, I was able to come out with a gain of a couple hundred DPS by soft-capping ArP and using a Mjolnir Runestone compared to the previous hard-capping. Both of these results are between 500 and 700 DPS lower than the estimates prior to pre-nerf.

At a quick glance, you should be gemming purely for expertise until you get to 26, regardless of socket bonuses. The only thing you want to be non-pure-expertise until that point is maybe the meta requirement gems. You also need to max flurry. I suggest maybe doing a little research instead of just posting and asking for help, the answers you require are readily available in this thread.