Kiyone

I dont understand why you have that crossbow instead of the crimson star from the vendor. 28 exp > 28 hast in my book, especially since you're gemming for exp which could change to str.

 

Brakthir

Untrue. I continuously spam Heroic Strike on 90% of the fights, as incoming rage with proper buffs/gear level is near unlimited at this stage of gear/content. Most fights have heavy incoming raid damage as well, so you can pretty much keep up a continuous spamming of Heroic Strike.

 

Rauch

The point of using a mark like 50 rage to queue when to use HS is one fundamental guideline of maximizing your output as Fury for whatever your gear or content level. The idea is to manage your rage so you always have enough to hit an instant ability when they're off of cooldown and so you don't waste damage by capping yourself at 100 rage. Having "unlimited rage" due to raid damage is only situational, granted that's most of the situations in these last two tiers of content. On fights where there is little or no incoming damage you have to manage your rage better to maximize your dps, that won't change until you're geared quite well. Once your gear gets better, your rage generation becomes smoother and eventually you can "HS 90%" of the time without having to depend on raid damage (like in sunwell gear). This fundamental is something that should be instilled in all Fury Warriors simply because it's a good habit, regardless of your gear/raiding level. Otherwise, you'll find yourself only doing well in high damage situations.

 

rljohn

It was mostly out of ignorance of the items available =P Fixed

 

Brakthir

Truth, and I offer the "HS above 50 rage" advice a lot too, but once people have reached this level of gear, it's pretty much a constant spam of HS.

 

Speeder

Hm what? Haste is the stat with worst SEP only better than capped hit/exp.

peace MK

 

Maybrick

Is this not going to be a massive increase for all warriors generally, what with having Kings providing us 10% extra strength, alongside this change to Sanc (if indeed you have access to Sanc in your raid setup) ?

 

Junlex

No, the stamina from sanctuary does not stack with the stamina from kings currently, and the strength from sanctuary will not stack with the strength from kings when 3.2.2 appears. The change is just so that protection paladins/warriors don't miss out on the strength if they have to choose between kings or sanctuary.

 

Maybrick

I guess that was kind of obvious that it wouldnt stack. All in all, an additional 40% strength would be disgustingly imbalanced.

 

Machinator

This would only be true if 100% of your MH swings are HS. I very much doubt that is true for anyone bar gimmicks.

"Information is ammunition."

 

Faithireon

I have been using Landsoul's spreadsheet for my gearing decisions for quite some time now and I have just recently noticed a shift in the results I am getting from it compared to what most people seem to advise. The general consensus for quite some time now has been to get Grim Toll or Mjolnir's and then gear/gem ArP to the ArP softcap. At my current gearing, Landsoul's spreadsheet shows what I (and the consensus of these forums) would expect and that is what I just stated above.

However, I changed cell E86 to match the 3.2.2 ArP nerf and the results change rather drastically. First, I went from being at the softcap to being about 200 ArP below the softcap. That makes sense since Blizz will effectively be raising the ArP hard cap, the ArP soft cap should go up as well. What is not so obvious though is that pre-3.2.2 line of thought would say I should shft gear around and change all of my STR gems to ArP gem to re-attain prized ArP softcap status. However, the SEP value of ArP NEVER goes above 1.00 and I actually see a net DPS loss if I attempt to re-attain the softcap from gemming.

So for all the wise ones out there who may be thinking ahead: due to the diminshed conversion rate of ArP rating to Armor Penetration percent will it no longer be key to reach the softcap anymore? And if this statement is correct, has Blizzard succeded in making STR the most valuable stat for Fury once again ?

 

catch22atplay

After the ArP change ArP starts beating Strength at under 8k dps (7.5k-7.8k?). Or for example if you had all BIS non heroic gear ArP beats Strength. With BIS heroic gear ArP SEP is well over 1.2. In fact it's so good that yellow sockets with agi bonus it's inferior to use 10str/10crit vs 20 ArP and no bonus. With full BIS heroic gear 20 ArP gems can be used in all yellow sockets except ones with a 6 strength or 6 crit bonus. So no they haven't succeeded as with BIS gear almost every single gem will be ArP except 1 meta and 1 +10 stats gem and 2 yellows. Assuming not using an ArP trinket here btw. I get 9754dps with this setup.

After the change and if using the Mjolnir Runestone all yellows will be 10str/10crit gems and you'll only need about 80 ArP in gems to be ArP sofcapped approx with BIS heroic gear. I get 9714dps with that setup. I certainly hope everyone with this trinket understands it's still an excellent trinket.

 

Machinator

Does anyone happen to have any data on Furious Attacks proc rates? My trial 10m doesnt have a rogue or hunter for the healing debuff so I thought I might shift things around and get a point or 2 in that along with cleave spec. I am hoping I can just stick one point in it and call it good for 10m bosses where the healing debuff helps.

"Information is ammunition."

 

Origence

When I tested it on dummies the debuff was often falling off even with 2 points invested. But this was some months ago, there's always a chance procrate has been changed.

 

Shha

One note here - well this might as well be in spreadsheet discussion, but it equally belongs here.

People seem to treat this spreadsheet as their only way of itemizing lately. Well Im not taking anything from Landsoul - the spreadsheet seems to work perfectly. But please consider the limitations, when people put their wishlists.

Spreadsheet emulates SINGLE target dps - while it shows you cleave numbers, the whole SEP etc goes for single target dps. I personally go for a lot more crit based setup (1 FC axe/1 tribute sword, arp soft cap + yellow sockets filled with 10 str/10 crit). Why?

a) Look at Colisseum Hard modes. Hardest fight = Anub'arak is so aoe based. Faction Champions even with the dmg reduction are still aoe fest for a warrior due to deep wounds proc. Valkyrs it depends on strat - a lot of guilds position them together. Jaraxxus is another cleave fest. AoE and adds from a "gimmick" are becoming a standard. Cleave is more and more of a major dmg source for us. What are the implications?

1) Without debuffs on adds crit is slightly more powerful - take off sunders etc and you will ArP drop slightly
2) Cleave vs heroic strike.
- Talented Cleave is same dmg, but costs around triple rage, if not slightly more. Im talking about skill cost, not including the lost swing of course. 20 rage vs ~6 rage for heroic (assuming 60% crit on heroic returning rage from glyph). We ARE close to using HS on every swing on most encounters. We are not close at all to using it at every swing for aoe fights. Extra crit and hit are good ways to boost your rage generation, and while it doesnt give considerable boost on single target it WILL boost you on multi target fights. Hit is a double edged thing though - It doesnt increase cleave dps. Crit however goes up substantially.
3) 4 piece t9 Dmg bonus becomes situational. Good aoe setup will only use 2 (probably chest/shoulders , with legs/helmet/gloves replaced - its an expertise drop - but you dont need as much for adds).

I'm not saying to not use the spreadsheet - its good AT WHAT IT WAS CREATED TO DO - but mind the limitations, we havent had patchwerk for like 25 bosses now.

There are of course some "options" there like incoming rage, cleave window etc - that can help people, but from posts here barely anyone uses them.

 

Graul

I agree with what you're saying for the most part, and I've often found myself thinking "gee, this 4pc bonus is great, too bad I'm not fully putting it to use". I still think that even though there are fights that have adds (some more than others), I'll stay with single target gearing while keeping in mind that situational AE is a factor, but it's not a priority to me.

I just question the value of being slightly better on some fights at the cost of being slightly behind on others. The thing is, it seems like either setup you choose will be fine simply because either set shares many of the same items I'm sure, and it's not like everyone is going to be able to pickup every single item they want and in any given order anyway.

 

soullink

I was in exactly the same situation yesterday for our Anub'arak firstkill in 10m.
I had 2 points in Furious Attacks and kept track of the debuff.
You can't guarantee 100% uptime, it sometimes falls off, but the uptime is around 80%.

In my honest opinion this is enough to stay fury and not spec arms, because fury REALLY rocks on that fight and is may'be even the best dps class / spec if you have sufficient support.

 

callion

Isn't haste a better stat to stack for on-next-swing attacks like cleave

 

• Fogbug

Yes, more cleaves is good. Assuming you're in a fight where AE dps is important (Anub, Twin Valkyries, Mimiron P4 etc) you should assume that haste is substantially better than the sheet says, especially if you've glyphed cleave: Landsoul's spreadsheet is for evaluating single target dps, not AE situations

 

Gustu

Assuming you have 4p and there are 2 targets with 0/3 imp cleave, is it really worth it to cleave? and if it is considered better to HS at what point does specing into imp cleave if at all take over? I ask this because the 4p becomes almost worthless if you are cleaving (little SLAM! procs and no HS) and cleave itself is a pretty bad move.

 

Darian_TruBlade

If DPSing both targets is worthwhile, then Cleave is far and away better than Heroic Strike. Cleave will literally double the damage of that swing every time, while Heroic Strike can only accomplish the same feat if you get a 20% chance proc and spend a GCD to use it.

Cleave is only a bad move if there's no good reason to be hitting the second target, if you'd break CC by using it or if you're trying to use it against a single target. In any situation where hitting multiple targets is desirable Cleave beats out Heroic Strike handily.

This does mean that the T9 4 piece bonus has little effect on fights/trash where Cleaving is supremely useful. However, you will still get Slam procs without Heroic Strike, and most fights don't involve AoE to the extent that you'll be doing nothing but Cleaving the entire time, if they involve AoE at all.

"A man's IQ, yearly income, sexual prowess, ingenuity, physical appearance and generally every other aspect of his character can be condensed down to four digits: his Arena rating." - Zechsy [70 Rogue - Skullcrusher (EU) - 10/23/2007]

 

• landsoul

On the topic of TOC, regular or heroic, what do people think of enrage? Assuming you put points into it from less useful things like improved execute or heroic fury? In every boss there is plenty of raid damage being thrown about.

A few questions to ask:
Does it work from kobolds and firespray from dreadscale?
Aoe from infernals, fel lightning, incinerate flesh on Jaraxxus?
Does it work with absorbing balls and vortex on Twins? What about their pulsing aura? Opposite color hits?
Does it trigger from leeching swarm ticks on Abub and penetrating cold? What about infected bite ticks?

Visit my Youtube Channel for an increasing selection of warrior videos, including Undermanning, PvP, and LK Raids:
http://www.youtube.com/user/LandsoulWoW

 

Twotoestony

Either I am missing something or playing fury is boring. I have read the forums regarding rotation and essentially everyone says that in order to maximize dps you just have to sit there while you are waiting on a GCD unless you dumping rage. It is much more challenging to keep your rotation going w/ arms. Or am I doing something wrong?

 

• Fogbug

I'm actually going to put an enrage build in my secondary talent tree as an experiment tonight; if it procs off of leeching swarm/pulsing twin aura then it's worth taking over imp cleave/precision for those fights.

I'm pretty sure Blizzard has said that they don't want dots and passive raidwide damage to proc enrage, though, so if it does proc off those it's an oversight. I haven't really tried it in a long time because of that. Fury dps definitely isn't balanced with with the assumption of consistent enrage procs like Arms is, though

 

Gustu

2 times at Gormok the Impaler, 0:24. Staggering Stomp and Snobold Vassal.
1 time from Acidmaw and Dreadscale. Sweep.
4 times at Icehowl, 0:48. Whirl and Massive Crash.
0 times at Lord Jaraxxus

Was posted earlier, but not too sure about AN or Twins, would assume it wouldn't proc off twins, but did notice the top fury warrior on wmo for the twins heroic speced into enrage.