I've felt that something was off about my rage generation/damage since the patch and as such have conducted some tests to verify that our basic mechanics are still functioning as expected. All tests matched expected values almost exactly, and were done against the Heroic Target Dummy in the Undercity.

Rage tests also matched wowwiki's formula, though I only swung a dozen or so times. I did verify expected amounts for main hand and off hand crits, hits, and glances before I stopped.

I think it's safe to say these basic mechanics are operating as normal, or at least that any condition whereby they don't is fairly specific and difficult to reproduce in a controlled environment. If there is a problem, narrowing it down is going to require very careful observation and data collection, a keen eye for discrepancies in log reports.

Retracted.

Try Ghost Pulse 3.

You can set up any buff in the game go pulse on your screen when it procs. I set up both of my trinkets, berserking and slam, even though SlamAlert takes care of most slams.

There is also another mod called Forte (if i remember correctly) that shows a cast bar that allows you to track internal cooldowns. Once again, my trinkets and weapons procs are placed there to give me an idea when they will be up.

You have a decent sample size, so I would be inclined to believe you, but the math seems to show what I would call inconclusive results.

You running a 0.1333% dodge rate (14/10500, if I can read your screenshot correctly) and given the following:

1 expertise rating = 8.2 expertise
therefore 205 expertise = exactly 6.25% dodge
if expertise is non truncated, you would need ~209 expertise to show the 0.13% dodge

you have 207 expertise, which if not truncated would equate to a dodge rate of ~0.19%


Conclusion? Well the numbers are starting to go your way, but they are still off. I would run the same test with 211-212 expertise and at least the same sample size or larger. This would demonstrate more conclusive results IMHO.

Edit: As I think more about this, I think you need a larger sample size. Remember, we are trying to evaluate a case that happens every 1/1000 to 1/400 times, and to properly evaluate it, you just need more data.

Retracted.

This has already been tested previously. See: Retesting hit table assumptions

Has anyone else noticed a large dps loss since the patch came out? Maybe it's just a really bad case of RNG, but since the patch I've went from about 5k dps on a single target fight to about 3.5k. Could the Arp nerf have really killed my dps that badly?

Before patch I was sitting at about 35% Arp. I dropped to about 31% after the patch, but then a couple gear upgrades got me to 34%. I'm still hit/exp capped, I actually gained a bit of AP and I didn't lose any crit or other stats that affect my dps much. I also haven't changed my rotation, keybinds, internet connection, computer or anything else. I feel rage starved a lot tbh, like if I hit heroic strike I have almost nothing left.

Maybe i'm just having terrible RNG (or I had amazing RNG for all of 3.2) but something seems fishy to me.

Ill risk opening up an old discussion, one which i feel is mostly settled on opinion rather than fact/math.

Which pots to use?

As I see it, first we need to agree to talk about 2 kinds of pots, a pre-combat pot and an in-combat pot. One to take before pull and one to pop after the first minute.

I figured I could use Landsouls SEP calculations (and this is where i need you to shoot me down and provide some intelligent math, rather than my napkin-version).

So, the SEP values change with the gear you choose, so first we need to decide on a BiS list, which seems hard enough to do altogether. Therefore, a nice guildie of mine made a "BiS based on ArP to cap with Mjolnir's Runestone, then strength"-set. As far as I can see, the only way to make more estimated DPS, is by going all-out passive ArP (which would yield ~300 DPS more) but lets just use these values as a benchmark:

http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/4140/biss.png

If I take the respective SEP values, plug them in and multiply them with the duration of the buffs, it'll look like this:


[Insane Strength Potion] (120*1) => 120*15 => 1800
[Potion of Speed] (500*0,8095) => 404,75*15 => 6071,25
[Potion of Wild Magic] (200*0,6638) => 132,76*15 => 1991,4
[Indestructible Potion] ((97/2)*0,7576) => 36,7436*120 => 4409,232

The unit of these numbers would be a total abomination, like "Strength Equivalency Points Per Second", but I am physically unable to calculate proper DPS.

Anyways, is it same to assume, that by using the SEP values I will have all thinkable buffs accounted for (Kings, stance/talent multipliers, Heroism/Bloodlust timings, trinket/procs timings, Death Wish timings etc)?

How else do one calculate a 2-pot combo for maximum DPS?

Retracted.

Here's a new one to think about and goes in line with how Rogues used to swap weapons for poisons.

As a fury warrior, is it possible to have 3 weapons and use tham as so?


The 2 main weapons used would both have Beserker on them, while the 3rd weapon would have mongoose.

Using macros:

/equip slot 16 "3rd weapon"
/cast whirlwind

/equip slot 16 "2nd weapon"
/cast bloodthirst

(macros are not fully accurate, but I'm sure you will get the idea)

This would rotate in you weapon with mongoose for whirlwinds, and than re-equip your Beserker weapon for bloodthirst.

Would this allow for the 2 Beserker's plus the Mongoose to proc, or am I just overthinking the mechanics? I think the main issue with this would be weapon cooldowns possibly resetting, hurting white dmg more than Mongoose will effect overall dps.

I'm pretty certain Blizzard has coded item procs so they trigger the ICD upon being equipped or 'hot-swapped'. This would seemingly destroy your proposed idea. However, I am no certain whether this forced ICD 'proc' is only for trinkets or for ALL item procs.

Yah I guess that does make sense (forgot about the GCD on swapping weapons as well) as appose to buffing the target, you would be buffing yourself.

And in respone to previous posts about ArP vs Strength

This is probably the best way to look at it.

10 Gems = 200 Strength (+ 20% increase - beserker stance) (+10% Kings) = 264 Strength - 528 AP
10 Gems = 200 ArP rating (12.31 ArP rating = 1% before 'nerf') so (12.31 = .88% ArP now, 12% reduction, right?)
That would mean it now costs 13.99 Rating for 1%, which would be 14.3% ArP with 200 ArP rating

So:
10 Strength Gems = 528 AP
10 ArP Gems = 14.3% ArP - I believe on a 10,000 armor lvl 83 mob this would be 630 dps - let me know if my calculations are wrong.
Not sure what dps is for 528 AP though.

Does anyoen know the calculations to dmg? If you can please follow up with a post so it can be more clearly stated.

14AP=1 DPS, so 528 AP is equal to 37.71 dps

Your numbers are accurate enough. I would have thought however, that an indestructible potion offers the best option for a pre-combat pot simply due to its duration unless of course it gets overwritten by another. Potion of speed certainly gets my vote for the in combat pot, really stacking it up with BL is always a good idea. I'd say that certainly taking the 3500 armour before combat and then speed during is the way forward. I shall test on a raid tommorow and let you know the results.

You cannot calculate the value of AP/Str in this way, AP/Str affects the damage from all yellow sources as well. Use landsoul's spreadsheet to find the SEP value of ArP and then compare this to the SEP value of Strength (which is 1 by definition). If I remember correctly 1 SEP (or 1 strength) is equal to ~0.8 dps (fully raid buffed), but that might be wrong.

Your SEP values for crit vs haste seem way off.
I just can't see how haste can ever be worth more than crit (no matter if high or low rage situations).
My first guess would be that you mixed them up.

While I can't view your link at the moment Webb, I too have a hard time believing haste can be worth more than crit at any crit level below the cap. There's some old discussion beginning around here: DPS Compendium.
Numbers have changed since then, but the fundamentals are the same. Haste will only affect your white damage and HS. Crit will affect all your damage, and is also synergized with flurry, deep wounds, impale and your metagem. If your screenshot shows otherwise then something is way off.

Regarding the potions, as MildCorma said the pre-combat choice is all about duration, and any 15 sec effect is impractical. Even with great snap aggro from the tank, by the time debuffs are up on the target and you've popped your gcd-consuming cooldowns, its effect is almost over. I agree with you though that in-combat, even with more conventional SEP values, Potion of Speed still beats the alternatives.

It may be because his buffed crit is at 62.19%, which is probably above the white dmg crit cap (or very close), so some of that may be wasted. And at that gear level, it would be unlimited rage, so all mainhand hits will be HS, so haste could have more of an impact. I've noticed the SEP of my haste go up with ToC gear, but it isn't anywhere near crit yet. Perhaps at BiS gear levels it can.

OK, I played around with different gear setups and the phony stats, and you're right, the SEP of haste goes up to about 0.9 close to the white crit cap. However, until you get that last point of crit, its SEP will remain higher (at around 0.99), after which it falls to about 0.66, which I guess is what Webb's link shows.

Yes I noticed too that his crit rate is at absurd high levels, beyond white crit cap:
27 white miss base - 8.5% hit + 24% glancing - 3% (crit suppression) = 39.5% non crittable white swings, i.e. 60.5% is white crit cap at his hit rating level. This fact alone *significantly* affects the worth of crit obviously.

On the other hand, I find it dubious to estimate the worth of pots based on this gear. Are you at this gear level?
If not, your reasoning of haste vs crit pots is flawed.

BTW unbuffed to buffed crit is a difference of 13% in the screenshot. I've not payed attention to this but is it always that high or only when wearing a lot of AGI gear? Never realized that.

It is. Kings, Mark of the Wild, ~3% agi / str totem, 5% rampage / leader of the pack, 3% pally / wrath totem.

I'm looking to find a stronger itemization preference. I was a Armor Pen stacker when 3.2.2 hit and now I've been brought down to around 80% armor pen. Saw a small drop in DPS, oh well. Since that, I've been auditing a ton of Fury Warriors from top 50 guilds and I've seen that most go for the soft armor pen cap, have Mjolnir and just push Str beyond that. Nothing new really, we've all seen that before.

Then I took a look at Rekt from Premonition, he actually does stack Armor Pen (at the expense at all other stats) and uses Victor's Call instead of Greatness / Death's Verdict. He sits at around 17 expertease, so says his current armory. He also tops Premonition's meters on WoL. Being that this itemization is actually more in line with my own and completely contrasting with everyone else, it made me stop to think what itemization I should pursue.

I'm not able to use the new Spreadsheet (I use a modified version for 3.2 in Excel 2003), I can't really verify either method numerically. Although I'm pretty sure that the SEP value of Rekt's expertease would be very high sitting at only 17, yet he choose to gem for more Armor Pen regardless.

I'd love to hear opinions on this.