For what it's worth I have a macro for Whirlwind as a result to prevent my wastefully using it.

#showtooltip whirlwind
/cast [target=target,exists,harm,nodead] whirlwind

Note that this will prevent you from whirlwinding when you have an ally targeted even if you are surrounded by hostiles. If you dont like that get rid of the harm portion.

I've had the macro long enough that i'm sure the capability to wastefully whirlwind has been around for a while. Are you saying that you are surrounded by hostiles but your whirlwind hits nothing if your primary target is dead or nonexistant? If so that's probably a new quirk, but still addressed by the above macro.

My question is how does Armor Pen relate to fury?I'm seeing a lot of how it applies to arms and battle stance, etc.I'm just curious as to what, as a titan grip fury warrior, i should be aiming for as far as amount of armor penetration?Right now i have 19 expertise (not capped), 331 hit, and 310 (25%) armor pen. I've replaced all my +16 str gems with +16 armor pen gems and i believe i've seen an increase in dps.The thing is that on maxdps.com it says i should always be gemming for armor pen and that the higher my armor pen rating gets, the more dps i get out of armor pen gems as opposed to str gems.So am i right in believing there just is no limit to how much armor pen i should stack?The other weird thing is that on maxdps, if i say that sunder is applied to the boss, it says str is the thing to gem.I'm completely at a loss here.The reason i'm most concerned is i have no way to compare gear upgrades now, because i have no idea whether i'll see more dps out of an item with X amount of armor pen on it vs. an item with Y amount of expertise or crit or haste/hit, but no armor pen.The other thing is that with all my stats plugged in, maxdps says that i'll get more dps out of the Valorous T7.5 shoulders than i will out of the Conqueror's T8.5 shoulders because the T7.5 have armor pen and the T8.5 have expertise.Is there anyone that can say definitively how the stats line up comparitively for Fury so i have a basis for knowing somewhat how to figure out gear upgrades and how to gem?

Use this spreadsheet:

Warrior DPS Calculation Spreadsheet

Pay attention to the SEP calculation. I haven't been able to create a scenario where ArP > STR with my gear as fury. Even as arms, it takes quite a bit of ArP to make it better than STR.

I have seen Arms warriors DPS drop because they gem out ArP instead of STR thinking that it is better for them, when it is not (primarily because they don't have enough of it). ArP will surpass STR for arms with more Ulduar gear. I am not sure that it will for fury.

I haven't gotten that spreadsheet to work for me. =( But I don't know if anyone else goes off Maxdps or if that fails to actually calculate a correct dps.

Well I will tell you this much, I switched to Arms and replaced my gems for ArP. So all of my gear is ArP. I tested out a 10 man OS1 and put out 4.9K DPS on Sarth (546 ArP at the time) (we just zerged him). The attempt prior to that I had switched to Fury (514 ArP in gear since its almost the same gear I use for Arms minus one or two items). We wiped at 2% but I did 4.2K DPS.

So we are comparing 4.2K DPS as Fury to 4.9K DPS as Arms. (No Might, Mark, or Windfury/Strength&Agi)- Just Battle shout and Kings.

This is on the same boss and basically the same fight duration. However it is not AS accurate since adds are involved. I will test it again on patchwerk (but I will have to wait till next week to do it as Fury).

Without the big raid buffs like WF/SoE totem/Horn of Winter and the comparatively large gains to Fury (compared to Arms), it seems reasonable that Fury would lose to Arms. I'm not positive that would make up the margin but WF alone is a pretty big increase to my rage gen and dps as Fury.

Old values? Does it factor the 90% base damage we do with TG spec in 3.1? Does it factor in the HS glyph? No idea here. I usually hit HS when i'm at 60 rage. If i didn't HS i would have hit 100. So the loss was 40 rage. Plus 12 for the HS itself. But i still get 10 free rage back when i crit due to HS glyph and use another ability. So the cost is actually 47 rage on average with 50% crit and if you hit HS at exactly 60 rage. If you have more rage the cost is less. If you have less rage the cost is more. Your rage generation greatly effects this. The point being is that 50-60 is far from being correct.

Putting an arbitrary rage cost on an HS isn't right. This tends to steer people away from its use. We need to look at the whole picture here. HS use at first look is an ability we have to dump rage. On the 2nd look it's a way to keep from wasting rage. We have BT and Ww to use. If we don't HS we hit 100 rage and any excess is completely wasted. Due to tanking i first called it a rage dump. As i went Fury for this expansion i then saw it as not wasting rage. Then being efficient with it's use. IE knowing when BT and or Ww are coming off cooldown and not using it at bad times. Further applying this the next step is to generate more rage to increase HS use. I don't care if the HS ability had a 20 rage base cost before factoring in anything. I would still find a way to make efficient use of it. To keep from wasting rage i'd rather assign a number to. X rage saved from being wasted. Although both it's cost and how much rage you keep from being wasted would be more accurate. Perhaps a weighting between the 2 to come up with a value. Sorry but i just never liked it when people assigned a rage cost value to HS use without factoring in what it's really supposed to accomplish. I know you and most other people understand this. This is mainly for the people that don't quite get it. As i mentioned before the ones that don't HS enough. The ones that don't see the advantage to increasing rage generation to increase HS use. These are the ones that don't get it and their dps suffers.

One of the main issues is 30% crit, that is very low for arms dps. I dont know of an addon but every 25% interval of rend will proc OP.

I don't want to debate how much rage is worth HS, since you are right on a point: wasting rage is worse than using it for HS.
Anyway the discussion was about other factors, especially IBS and it's value and it simply can't massively inflate your DPS cause of the barely 2HS per minute you get. It is great to let you sustain your rotation, no doubts.

HS cost is very close to 50 even factoring in .9 multiplier, 60 could be the average value at the end of the tier.
Using HS is a must and using it well is what gives you the most dps. "Enough" is not a proper value, how much is enough? 25% of white hits? 50%? the more the better?
Different fights = different "enough" since outer rage sources influences its use much more than your will.

Abusing of HS is the worse error you can do anyway, and to increase the rage generation so that your number of hs increase by x% you need to consider a lot of factors.

I agree with Hellord, Heroic Strike usage isn't the same for all fights. It's not important how much rage consumes HS, the important point here is that you must use HS as much as you can without screw your WW/BT usage on each CD. This is the way you'll have more DPS. And some fights will let you use HS more than others. In my own experience, on fights with high raid damage I can almost spam HS, Off-hand hits plus Environmental damage gives you all the needed rage. I never thought how much rage I need to have before click HS, just check how much rage incoming gives you the fight and adapt HS to your rotation. More experience with the fight will let you use it more and more until the edge

General intuition would lead you to think that he is doing the right thing, and you are not. If you copied what he was doing, and perhaps asked him, you may be able to perform as good as him. If at first you don't succeed, try again. Or copy someone else. You won't find much help here with a post like that.