Gabriell

Question on the OP topic.

Assuming your on 90 rage and just before a swing. OP is up and MS is off cooldown. 1 GCD would bring your next attack after the white swing. Wouldnt using MS>OP be better considering the rage you would 'lose' otherwise for being 100 rage capped?

 

Murderizer

I've been fiddling around with the DPSSim java program from the other thread to see how different weapon choices affect the projected dps (assuming the program models arms correctly).

Pretty much poleaxe spec is way dominant to mace or sword. And a slower weapon can really make up for lesser weapon dps.

Cryptfiend's Bite and BoH came out pretty close with death's bite and wraith spear not far behind. All of those however are 100-300 DPS better than Armageddon (swords are terrible - and the bursty rage gen is pretty annoying from my experience being stuck with Armageddon). The jawbone was only a little better than Armageddon.

I did however do this testing without taking into account the unique stats of every weapon - more just a survey of weapon speed and spec to see how much of a difference those factors can make.

I can tell ya right now though, I'm gonna put a massacre on my wraith spear and put Armageddon in the bank.

 

Tankietka

Axe's spec can currently be a bit off in DPSSim, as it reports too high DeepWounds damage. I'm working on it (that is I'm trying to analyze how DeepWounds are influenced by buffs), so in the future most probably it will change.

 

hellord

Yes, this is the way you have to react.
If you are over 1s from swing you would still go for OP since the lower gcd will let you use MS before the swing, otherwise you just burn MS.
This is the for Execute-MS: if you are under 1.5s from a swing you can freely burn all your rage with an Exe cause in the worse case you'll be able to Slam on next gcd.

Once 3.0.8 comes out the SD changes things will slightly change but priorities are more or less the same, but your bad timed Execute when at 40+ rage won't leave you starved till next swing.

@Morderizer
In my ssheet DW is close to numbers i'm experiencing and reading from wws parses, and I found out that while cryptfiend and boh are quite close (CB uses like 6% more AP on non-normalized attacks), death's bite is a bit behind due to stats allocation and speed.

@Tankieta
Probably you should check if you applied buffs twice. If you for ex use 48% of WD with all buffs (2h spec, WC, BF etc) then you can't reapply those buffs on DW damage.
I just take the 48% of avg weapon damage ((min+max)/2*ws + (ap/14)*ws)*0.48 and then multiply it for (1+0.06+0.1+0.02+0.3) [1+2hspec+WC+BF+Trauma].
A commono mistake could be applying those modifiers (maybe except trauma) twice. This can make DW relative damage by something like 3-4%.

ArP Whore

 

Tankietka

That's exactly what I did few months ago :-). Now I found some time to test DW more - which buffs are applied when etc. I should finish analysing data soon.

 

Ariakis_Uther

Is this spreadsheet available for general use?

 

Gorrog666

Here's my weekly update on how things are going:

Did Naxx25 with Fury spec this week and the damage was superior to Arms but considering that most Fury tops at 6k dps on Patchwerk and Arms can achieve up to 5k you're obviously on the better side with Arms.

I picked up Armageddon this week so I'll try out the 53/10/8 HS Sword spec and see how well it goes in Raid.

 

Murderizer

I dunno why you would punish yourself by using Armageddon - its a godawful weapon, esp for an orc. Sword spec accounts for about 1.6-2% of my dmg done.

 

hellord

I'm sorry but it's just my own one and it's a mess I just use it to get average damage of different spells and see how they increase with stats/buffs. I'll try to clean it up and make one after 3.0.8 anyway.

ArP Whore

 

illusive_2008

Looking for some solid feedback on rotation. Right now I have been working alot on dummies and heroics to get a solid feel for overall CD management. My question is how accurate is the following...

1. Keep rend up at all times
2. Use SD executes with 40+ rage
3. Overpower on every CD
4. Keep MS on CD
5. Slam to use up excess rage when needed
6. Use slam and heroic strike when 50+ rage available
7. Prioritize Bladestorm with trinket procs and keep on CD

Taken from previous post in this thread, but just want to make sure this is accurate. Also on how this will change if patch goes live this week. Obviously I am still working on gear, so any tips on that I am very open to, working on 8 percent hit for specials as well as good balance of Crit/AP. Really be harsh if need be, I want to perform well inside raids. Right now we have no feral druids as well as no MS warriors and a single Fury warrior. I would be 53/18/0 as my raid spec just to make sure I cover all grounds when asking for advice.

Was going to try and list a WMO parse to show raid comp but there servers are currently down. We run on average 10 melee give or take if that helps at all.
(2) Hunter
(1) Rogue
(1) Fury War
(2-3) Death Knight
(1-2) Ret Pally
(2) Prot War
(1) Prot Pally

Thanks again for taking time to give feedback to help me be more productive in raids from advice from well experienced MS DPS warriors.

 

Murderizer

The only problems with that priority list I see, are more clarifications.

1. Don't refresh rend until its final tick, so let it drop for a split second before casting again.

2. Using SD executes isn't so much about how much rage you have, its more about using them at an appropriate time. There are 3 scenarios that work: you have an OP proc, rend needs refreshing, or right before a white swing. The goal is to keep your rotation going steady after a ragedump from execute. Losing a GCD from a bad SD can be detrimental to dps.

3. yup, OP is your best use of a GCD

4. yes, but don't use it until you have about 45+ rage on hand, so you can keep slam spamming or whatever else afterwards.

5. correct

6. I wouldn't us HS until you are pushing over 80 rage personally. It is a huge loss of incoming rage when you do use it, so make sure you have enough for two or three more GCDs.

 

hellord

I experienced rage starving only when using hs badly. It's more or less the same as a bad timed execute so i just use it when 90+ rage and possibly when I have a situation like MS-swing-OP and no execute (otherwise i would use that extra rage for execute).

Heroic strike costs like 12+~28 (60 if crit) rage so it's an average 40+ loss of rage and you really need to pay attention to use it only when next swing is very close. Probably after 3.0.8 could be worth using it more since we loose much from SD nerf. The glyph will give back 10 rage on crit and make it less expensive.

Actually I cant say i have a strict priority list. I generally saw i use 3 "combos":
40+ rage: MS - exe - op (or ht or rend) - slam
<40 rage: exe - op - slam
OP - MS - Slam

I generally don't let procs tick too much. Every 3 seconds you have a chance for OP, while on every hit you have a chance for execute, and since it procs also from itself i often use it even at midswing and eventually i'll just refresh rend.

So I try to use rend on those spare gcds where i don't have OP up and SD procced early in the swing.
I'll prolly just Slam after a high rage exec after patch 3.0.8 comes out on live.

Bladestorm on cd and possibly used with trinkets/racials. Heroic throw is great to be used after an early SD since it's free and it's good damage (higher priority than slam but lower than rend if on last tick or already expired).

During execute phase i generally pop an haste pot and just burn all executes, only prioritizing OP over exe if no SD up (otherwise Exe(SD)-OP-Exe(non-SD), If bl is active you are swinging around 2.1s so i tend to prefer only using execute even over MS.
The reason is that at such high speeds you can't ensure to use MS and Exe before next swing, and using execute at every gcd is the best thing you can do, unless you wear a 300 dps weapon and have 1000 ap:P

ArP Whore

 

Copper

Question, are people generally staying in Battle stance while in combat? I've tried dancing between stances and as a whole just finding it very cumbersome. The extra 3% crit just doesn't seem to be very worthwhile with the Overpower proc going off and having to reapply rend.

 

Perimeter

I tried both stances many times and overpower / rend on 1S GCD definitely puts out more damage than +3% crit / WW.

 

Kylotas

This week's Naxx-25 for me trying [Cryptfiend's Bite] and finally expertise capped hit capped and with 50.40% crit or so raid buffed and 5050 AP raid buffed before any procs or trinkets. NOTE THAT THIS IS WITH PATCH 3.0.8 and I can say that Sudden Death change IS a nerf yet as others have stated before I do believe it makes for a slightly more smoothe rotation in which Heroic Strike Use becomes a LOT more viable and u RArely find yourself below 50-60 rage in most fights.

http://wowwebstats.com/rlv2hswvon4uy?s=167033-198050

How PAINFULL it is to be 43 dps from Paradise :S!!!! nontheless 4957 Dps on Patchwerk is Good S..T

 

◊ Birdemani

Just curious, what priority were you using on attacks and when were you choosing to fit in your HS? You mention that rage wasn't an issue for you but you only had 8 Heroics across the entire fight. Your white damage, coming in at 2nd, came from 67 attacks. Of those 10 of them were glancing which most likely kept you from hitting 5000.


Wow Web Stats
You had some RNG luck here as you lost the Berserk buff only 2 times across the 3 minute fight. This most likely helped you edge out Bambie who had it drop off 4 times. I'm also not sure if 16 Slam! procs is higher or lower than expected after the Bloodsurge changes.

Relwin: Besides, the BB is not some ivory tower of WoW knowledge, it's just less stupid here than elsewhere.
DeeNogger: Not less stupid, better stupid. The BB takes stupid very seriously. Now if you will excuse me, I have to go misspell the word fire.

 

adammmm

What I can say about the patch is it allows you to be sloppy with your rage. The rage is a lot smoother than I expected.

I was so tired last night and was really slow on my rotation and reaction times and it seemed to have no real negative effect.
I couldn't find a sweet spot to throw my heroic strikes in though, I need to practice it a bit. The rage bar can fill up so fast and drain just as fast. I thought I threw in a lot more HS's than it says, most of them must have been hit just before the rage bar dropped too low after SD/MS.

Wow Web Stats


Has anyone noticed an increase in SD procs? I'm not sure if RNG is just playing with me, but the whole day when I was trying stuff on the target dummies I was getting 30+ SD procs over 5 minutes every fight - when pre-patch I have never had that many ever, it used to stay around 20-25 max.

 

Kylotas

@ Birdemani:Priority on attacks...hmmmm.... I wouldnt say I really Have one.Its kind of a feeling thing to be honest. I try to keep MS on Cooldown then spam slam unless OP or Sudden Death are procced and of course Let rend fall off for a split second (to get the last tick off) and then refresh it instantly. If I have MS, OP, SD all out of CD or procced. Id go MS, SD, OP, while having loaded a HS for the swing which would come bwetween SD and Op if rage is above 28 so I can still slam after the OP and b4 the following HS comes. In situations where MS will come back from cd after a swing, I chose to fit HS whenever My rage was above 50 while next swing is comming. this means you hit HS you are left with 38 rage which is enough for 2 slams before next swing comes again or an MS and an OP proc or rend refresh. All in all its a lot safer to use HS without endangering rage stravation. I d also wanna say that the Rend Glyph making it 21 sec helps as well since it means you have to waste a lot less gcd to refresh rend. As for Berserking buff what can I say, it was my 1st night of enchanting it and aparently ye it procs all the time

@ Coprophagia: I noticed in some occassions VERY frequent SD procs which also made me think it was some undocumented adjustment maybe but then in some other fights it was less SD procs than usual so I figured it was marely some nice rng. Maybe GM's were instructed to hover around Naxx raids and hit Arms Warriors with their magic stick and give em' some rng to compensate for only nerfing us all the time :P

 

Rishkkin

I am also wondering that because during noth last night I had 6 BACK TO BACK SD procs (proc from procs), uneless they really upped the proc chance, what are the chances of this happening @ 9 % proc rate ?

 

Ariakis_Uther

I think I'm doing this right, it would be 0.0000531441 % chance to get 6 sudden death procs in a row.

 

Rishkkin

hum, that would fall in the "once in 100 lifetime" category.

I'll try to see if I can find what happened in the WWS if a guildie posts it in our guild forum

 

thefatman999

I dont know if they have increased the proc rate, but one thing that you have to consider is that most of the time you are able to hit sudden death as soon as it procs instead of waiting for it to fit into your rotation without rage starving you. This will lead to less "wasted" procs, and therefore it will seem that it procs more often.

 

einstein9073

That's not quite right.

The first proc is a given, so we can't count the probability of that.
These six procs happen over a period of nine seconds, so you get a few auto-attack swings in.
If you assume a hasted swing of 3.0s and a human-error/lag factor of 0.1s on the GCDs, then three of the subsequent five procs had two chances to proc SD again. (A probability of 17.19%)
So you have three chances of 17.19% and two chances of 9%, for a total chance of 0.004114%.

Say there's 100 arms warriors raiding in a night, and they fight 5 bosses for five minutes each. That's 150,000 seconds of combat. If they all had a 3.0 hasted speed and used each GCD, that's 150,000 swings and 13,500 chances to start this chain. 13,500 * 0.004114% is 55.54%... that's a 55% chance to see this effect in one night.

Rishkkin got lucky, sure - it's only 0.00556% for HIM to see it. But the odds that someone saw it approaches a sure thing over enough battles.

 

Rishkkin

This makes way more sense now, I forgot about the haste effect, andI think I was under bloodlust at that moment (can't know for sure since we didn'get the WWS after all), so I definitely had a fast swing speed.

 

Hellscar

I've noticed a significant decrease in dps when using execute as a rage dump. I've read quite a few threads about fury rotations and most of them recommend using execute to dump rage after 20%. I've tried this and most the time it just leaves me rage starved. I went from averaging around 2200 dps down to 1850-1900 dps when using it to dump rage.

Should I just follow normal rotation after the 20% mark and wait to dump rage until it's almost dead to inflict the killing blow on the target? Or just leave it out of my rotation altogether and just use slam to dump rage? Any opinions or suggestions are appreciated.