Zydal

Hey guys. I've tried to read this entire thread so as to not ask something that's already been asked. I didn't see this asked, but I may have zoned out through some of the pages, so I apologize in advance if this has been addressed.

I was over at maxDPS and after inputting my stats every single gem slot told me to put Armor Pen, and it ranked some blue boots above the vendor boots because if a high amount of armor pen. The question, I suppose, is how much armor pen should I be going for? I was under the impression that you get to 50% crit or so raid buffed, then go with AP. Is there a point in AP where Armor Pen or Haste becomes more valuable than AP? I'm not looking for some magic number like "get to 5391 and a half AP then get to 7% armor pen and 300 haste" because I know it isn't that easy. But is there a time when I should start throwing armor pen gems or something in?

Again, I'm so sorry if this was addressed and I skipped a page or something. Thanks for all the help in these pages, it's been awesome.

 

snowfox

my first post was answered on page 11, so sorry for this thing here.

 

Finnplayer

Maxdps.com arms calculation is currently outdated (which also reads on the site ) and you shouldn't really rely on the numbers it gives you. Now that arms is tiny bit less RNG we're one step closer to a working spredsheet.

 

Rishkkin

When looking at the number of AoE packs we see and the number of times you have to fight more than 1 mob at a time, if I consider the latest change to the glyph of cleaving, I am starting to wonder if using the later instead of the MS glyph would pay.

I know I would loose 10 % dmg on my MS, but would the extra target on cleaves make up for that loss ? I know that cleave kills my rage gen, but I find that I'm more often than anything unable to dump my rage fast enough anyways, so using it when I'm overflowing with rage might work. Anyone tried that ?

 

jhdobbins

Kylotas, (or anyone who will help... just directed towards him for his activity in the thread and the comparison to his wws)

I must be doing something wrong. I used attacks very similar to what you used and you crushed me on dps. (looking at your patchwerk, last wowwebstats you posted) to mine:
Wow Webstats, Patchwerk

I notice your kill was 1 minute quicker, and you did more damage than I. Now, I see you used a speed potion, and someone used heroism... but will it make That much difference?

You have more roughly 250 more AP than I did... and 5% crit + leader of the pack. Is that enough to affect the huge swing in damage? Should I regem to all strength? Your weapon is also better, but now by leaps and bounds. Where do I go from here to excel myself?

( I had shoulderguards of opportunity on at the time of run and not the Tier shoulders for the bonus. (do the 4 piece bonus affect make it worth it?)

Thanks.


edit: broken wws link fixed

 

einstein9073

When you're raiding, do you find the bosses go down without a problem, and you frequently wipe on the trash packs?
Or do you handle the trash packs without much risk, and find the bosses challenging?

If you're downing the bosses easily and wiping on trash, you should use the Cleave glyph.
If you're downing the trash easily and wiping on bosses, you should use the Mortal Strike glyph.

I think you should probably keep the MS glyph. Watching the boss fall down is more important than winning at meters on trash packs. (Huntards, mages, and warlocks will ALWAYS omgwtfpwn us on trash DPS anyway)

 

Rishkkin

I guess this is something that will see more use once Dual spec comes out, taht that point I'll have a "trash' spec and a boss spec (that is if switching is trivial)

 

Perimeter

I think it depends on the situation ... if you're rage starved >20% it's probably not a good idea to spam execute, but if you're getting a full rage bar with almost every swing then it's a dps increase IMO. But isn't this an arms discussion?

 

Rishkkin

Had the occasion to try it out last night, here's my observation :

- You can get rage starved way too easily if you don't use cleave with caution, whereas slam only delays your swing timer, slowing your rage income, Cleave eats your rage bar direclty.
- Combined with sweeping strikes, this can cause some really nice DPS assuming you had a full rage bar (What I did a few times was use bladestorm without Sweeping Strikes, and as soon as BS faded, activated SS then cleaved the surviving mobs.
- On bosses, the 10 % less DMG on MS was apparent

All in all, for bosses keep your MS glpyh, for trash and farming, the Cleaving glyph can have a nice use.

 

pdpi

This is not completely accurate. Slam and HS cost you rage in exactly the same way, it's just that one costs you a fixed amount of time's worth of rage, whereas another costs you rage depending on weapon speed:

Over 30 seconds of swinging a 1.5 speed weapon:

You generate 20 autoattacks.

With a 1:1 autoattack/slam rotation, you get 10 slams in, at a cost of 150 rage, and a total of 15 seconds' worth of delay, which translate into 10 auto-attacks' worth of rage loss over that time.

If, instead, you HS every other autoattack, this consumes 20/2 = 10 autoattacks, costs 150 rage, and eats 10 autoattacks worth of rage.

Doubling both duration and swing timer, so a 3.0 speed weapon and one full minute:

You get the same 20 autoattacks.

10 slams cost 150 rage and 15 seconds' worth of auto attack rage (ie, 5 swings, but same total rage time as the faster weapon).

10 HSs cost 150 rage, and 30 seconds' worth of auto attack rage (ie, the same 10 swings but more rage time than the faster weapon).

(EDIT: I used the untalented slam cast time for ease of comparison. Talented slam obviously makes this comparison much more favourable for slam)

 

Rishkkin

You are right, but for the purpose of the test I did, Cleaving depleted my rage bar whereas slamming wasn't enough to empty it.

Slam has a rage cost, but doesn't prevent White hit, it only makes it longer (about 1.5 max if you happen to be able to slam 3 times / white swing)
Cleave, on the other hand, is just like HS, it turns a white hit in a yellow one, forfeiting any possible rage gain.

 

Hamburglar

Id say use cleave as a ragedump only. I wouldnt really glyph for it on the basis that our ss - bladestorm should be multitarget-damage enough.

On a different sidenote. Any of the top arms-pve warriors here able to maybe fraps an encounter? Id love to see the difference in playstyle. Could be a huge help for those wanting to see where you insert your mortalstrikes, cleaves etc.

Im having a go at naxx25 as arms again wednesday, with 40.11% crit / 3500ish ap unbuffed + hit / exp cap. Hopefully Ill see some decent damage. Havent been arms for a while.

And did anyone gain anything useful from the warrior-simulator posted earlier? I ended up at about 12000 dps, which seemed a tad optimistic.

 

Murderizer

The trick with the DPSSim is entering all your stats "correctly." The AP, and crit you put in are actually not what you see directly from your character sheet, but what you gain from items - so the AP in green as a plus next you your base from str and the crit % extra from crit rating. Also getting correct %'s for hit/crit/haste/armor pen etc. 40% crit is .4 crit and so on.

Also you'll likely see lower numbers than in reality since it doesn't take into account things like BL, trinket procs consumeables etc. I think it was putting me about 1k dps below what I see in raids.

 

Tankietka

A bit easier way to understand what needs to be entered in DPSSim is having in mind that value in greyed field ("after buff & talents") should be equal to what you see on your character sheet.

As for lower DPS than in real raids - yes, some things are not implemented yet (BL, trinkets), also simulation is not smart enough to stack for example DeathWish with other procs, which, especially on short fights, would result in such disrepancies.

 

tichphys

A tad over 4.9k on Patchwerk: Wow Web Stats .

I was using Wraith Spear over Black Ice, and it seemed better due to the slower speed. Otherwise, my gear is pretty solid, but I'm certainly not covered in best-in-slots (prot is my primary spec). I think I'm something like 41% crit unbuffed in battle stance, so probably up to ~50% with the raid buffs going. Otherwise, not exactly sure how much AP, maybe 5k-ish buffed ballpark. I also was responsible for refreshing sunders and had to use a GCD on bshout when it fell off mid fight. I had all the physical DPS buffs, however, I was not hysteria'd, or ever tricks'ed. I did use one haste (BC-level) potion, and I tried to match it with a trinket proc.

For my rotation, I pretty much followed the stuff that has been talked about in this thread, Rend -> OP -> Ex -> MS -> Slam. If I messed something up, and I was rage starved for a GCD, I'd heroic throw. Since 3.0.8, I've found the SD change to give me much more rage than before, forcing me to heroic strike more often. Generally, I think I've found that if you overpower as one of your ~two GCDs between swings, especially if the other is a rend-refresh or a slam, one of the next swing(s) will be good candidates for a HS.

One thing about Patchwerk fight length being generally 3 minutes and some change, you don't really have time to use 3 bladestorms, so I waited and tried to use it whenever either Grim Toll or Mirror of Truth had procced, to maximize the number of abilities that would resolve during their durations (bladestorm is 1/sec, normal rotation is somewhere between 1 and 1.5 depending on overpower use). Near the end ~3% I popped a third bladestorm, and in retrospect maybe that wasn't worth it.

At sub 20% range, I did use execute whether or no SD had procced. However, the decision logic for when to execute was the same as pre 3.0.8 SD executes: if a white swing were due in the next 1.5 seconds, execute. Then rage would be ensured for a subsequent MS or slam. If no swing due in next 1.5, use MS or slam.

 

Healranktwo

Well, its been a while guys. Does anyone feel like the change to SD was a buff for a fight like Patchwerk? It feels that way to me. I couldn't do the last two weeks since I missed the first week, and I died to Pwerk on the pull on the second.

I managed to do a parse last night, and it happened to be my best parse - WoW Meter Online - The Best World of Warcraft Combat Log Analyse System!Fully support Wrath of the Lich King!.

5079 DPS. Ignore the two tricks I got. I actually clicked the second one off (because I feel like doing 5k with tricks doesn't mean anything), and got the first one during a BoP since they were trying to get me killed lol. I also got boped a second time during the fight, damn guildies!

Anyway, while it felt kind of nice, it's getting very frustrating for me now. My DPS has gone up every week since the last time I posted by about 50 or so each week. However, I see others jumping up a ton each time they get gear, and I just feel like i'm stuck at a spot right now where my DPS will probably not go up much higher regardless of the best gear I can get.

While Betrayer and Poleaxe spec might help, I have seen parses from arms warrior with the best in slot gear and BoH pulling around what I did tonight. How do you guys feel about arms right now? I just feel like with the way it is, that I just don't scale very well compared to other classes. Other guys who are just starting to gear up (that fury warrior in the parse for example) will eventually pass me on DPS when he gets a bit more gear, and it's just frustrating to me =(

I really want to do a lot more as arms, but I don't know how much higher I can aim for on Patchwerk at this point. None of the other fights really matter in my eyes, since there are too many other variables involved.

Sorry for the rant post, it's not really. I just wish I could do more considering I take this spec very serious, and I put a lot of work into being good at it.

 

adammmm

I've felt from the time I started getting 25naxx drops that arms just doesn't scale well.

I did 4400 dps on patchwerk in 10man/heroic gear and that polearm from violet hold. I'm pretty much geared out now and only managing 5.3k on patchwerk last Wednesday. I got just over 5k the night after the patch, I think it was down compared to this week because I was playing with heroic strike and messed my rage up a bit.

We have to consider fight length also. My dps drops and drops as the fight goes on mainly because of lust near the start since we use different ppl each week and fight length can vary.


edit: You got 27 sudden death procs, I got 17 on my last. That was a 60k dmg difference, so there's another factor, RNG. Both our fights went for a little over 3mins. Only a 2 second difference between them.

edit2: Ill link the WWS once the site stops timing out and actually loads my reports.
http://wowwebstats.com/oeiiunq4tmeps...642&a=x1de6c50

 

Ephrael

When the SD change came out i was a bit happy for it. But at this point a few weeks later i feel it was a complete nerf. As a sword specked arms there is no way to get rid of your rage unless you HS or cleave. Also our scaling seems much worse then other classes. In the past 2 weeks i went from one of the top 5 DPSers to 8th or lower. It's getting a bit aggravating but we shall see what Blizz plans for us in 3.1.

few WWS to pick through

todays clear-WWS

Last weeks-WWS

Some day i will live through patches...some day.

 

Kandryn

Source

Since it's now officially recognized, let's hope for some good changes.

 

Ephrael

Ya beat me to posting that =(

But yes hopefully some good things are to come. Although I know they are thinking of fixing stances and I hope they don't mess it up so Arms is back in zerker stance. So until we see said changes Fury is the way to go unfortunately.

 

Hamburglar

Just did a naxx-clear with my new guild.

Wws : Wow Web Stats

I really feel stalled by my current wep. I suspect 830ish top-dmg just isnt enough to cruise in on what is supposed to be the posibility to do about 5k on patch. Did 4.4 or something today with a bit of a sloppy start.
I really hope the weapon is the issue at the moment, combined with some other gear-upgrades, because I "think" im doing everything pretty much by the book regarding priorities. What Im wondering is the situation where your sd and tfb is on cd. Do you slam three times or wait out that last slam for a mortalstrike instead? I started to notice I could fit in a third slam in a endless rage scenario, but that would delay my mortalstrike by quite some time. Any thoughts on this?

And about the blue post. Lets just hope. It would be great if we could eek out even more damage due to some rearchitecture.

 

adammmm

I always slam 3 times if theres no sd/op procs.

slam-slam-slam-ms

 

Metax

 

parkwaydrive

finally, giving arms some love

 

Raúl

I am a Fury warrior that needs to go Arms for my guild. I have [The Jawbone] and [Armageddon]. I can't seem to get any polearm or axe to drop for me. I need to know if I go Arms, would it be viable to use a mace or sword? Which would be better to go with? Or shouuld I just wait for a poleaxe?