Well, 10% armor penetration is roughly 2.5% damage on a boss while in pvp it varies much.
Atm PTR arp was buggy, so I hope we can test this out and understand how they think to make ratings, debuffs and buffs stack.

I have to suppose Shattering throw works like slam, so it should delay your swing by 1.5 seconds.
EDIT: Confirmed, it works like Slam delaying the swing.

This is very lackluster, even supposing it stacks with sunder armor, 5 min cd, 10 sec duration.
In PvP this is good to remove a bubble but I'm not sure yet how you can use effectively this spell. Probably when CCed away from an invulnerable target and ready to charge him.
The damage and the buff are not really gamebreaking, but the invulnerability removal is quite nice.
Also disarm now removes ranged weapons, and should alleviate the pressure hunters can do on us atm, with perma kite and nuke.

These are not all the changes, but unless arp is fixed and we can do some test to check it's value I'd say there's nothing new for DPS warriors, but some news for arms in pvp.

I guess now the next step will be raising bleeds damage for arms so the BattleStance buff wo't be of any use:P

With Shattering Throw and the 10% ArP in battlestance you gain uptop 30% ArP, it would be interesting to see what it will do with CD´s + Bladestorm. This together bloodfrenzy(2/4%) makes us atleast more valuable

Seems there's been another change that's shown up in the patch notes that appears to have been missed:

Taste for Blood: Will now proc 33/66/100% of the time with a 6 second cooldown.

Looks to be an effort to get rid of the more random elements in the 'rotation'.

I saw these changes too, but it isnt in this PTR build at least.

With 3/3 t4b you should get 1 proc at first tick of rend, 1 at 3rd (or 4rth more realistically) etc, while it just doesnt happen. On the other side I got procs on subsequent rend ticks, so I guess it's something they plan to implement later.

They also added to patch notes the fix to deep wounds they made some time ago (double dipping fix).

Anybody feel the change to Battle Stance will make Mace Spec more viable? Or will it just be offset by the Sunder Armor nerf?

What Sunder Armor nerf?

Boss Armor will be lowered so that when a full stack of Sunder Armor is applied you will have the same reduction you have on bosses now. That is the plan anyway. Buffing ArP is an independent move because it wasn't all that great for all classes (Haste got the same treatment for classes that didn't get much out of it. Warriors were not included in case you wondered).

Mobs armor will be lowered to compensate. So at the beginning of the fight or trash where there won't be full sunders on them, they'll have lower armor than before. There will be no situation in a raid where they'll have more armor than before with the same amount of debuffs.

With the changes to TFB, it may actually be possible to create a spreadsheet to show arms SEP.

Ok. Well Sunder Armor aside, my interest was in how much Mace Spec would improve compared to the other specs. And what the relative value of ArP compared to Crit might be.

Concerning the viability of an arms spreadsheet, would the TFB change allow this to be possible? How would you measure Slam damage and Execute Damage? What would the rotation look like?

From personal experience I'd rather use a simulator.
A spreadsheet can be good to understand how some stats increase the relative damage of a move, but it's very difficult to model properly SD procs in a fixed rotation.

First of all consider SD can proc on itself, so you prioritize it over everything except Rend (not sure it can proc SD) and Slam should maybe have a fixed position in the rotation. Otherwise you would skew the rage income for every subsequent rotation.

I'm working on a php simulator for arms since it would be much easier to link to armory and much easier to code for me.. I'm not good at all at excel
Anyway you can simulate the rage income to better understand Execute.

Any tool that can help me determine stat weights as arms would be a godsend, seeing as how we have pretty much nothing at the moment. Unless you think the Rawr DPSWarr model is good, but it seems pretty off to me.

Hmm... I haven't seen this thrown out there, but considering my main its Feral thats usually a Cat in raids, this seems like its probably the best place to put it. Unless you have a bear tank, Trauma > Mangle. While the debuff is the same, a cat has to actively apply the debuff and track it to reapply it every 18 seconds (Glyphed). Additionally, it is the ability thats in our kit that has the least Damage per Energy by a significant margin. Having an Arms warrior who constantly refreshes Trauma automatically makes my life a LOT easier, changing it from 5 timers I have to monitor to 4. While this doesn't help much in the mechanics of Arms, it is a point to consider when trying to decide if Arms is worth the raid spot.

This is really nothing new, and the Druids I've talked to about this act like I'm crazy when I suggest they can take Mangle out of their rotation.

Is trauma uptime guaranteed to be 100%? What is the chance of not getting a crit in 15 seconds?

Still, even if it drops, it must be better to get a weak shred every now and then instead of having to mangle every 18 sec I guess.

This is correct, rend cannot proc SD. Another question to ask is as arms approaches higher AP levels, will MS pull ahead of SD in terms of damage / gcd? If so, will it become more important to keep MS cooldowns tight rather than fitting in as many SD procs as possible (within reason, like how fury handles SLAM! procs, if the proc will time out, use it first, if it will not run out, use it second).

Also, noticing how MS is on a 5 second CD and OP procs will be on an effective 6sec CD, there will be a period where you will have OP procs effectively on cooldown for the entire time between two MS's--this would be the time to pop trinkets and bladestorm in order to apply the maximum number of hits / sec to keep deep wounds stack rolling.

That TFB change seems very fishy to me, insofar as it makes unrelenting assault completely redundant for PvE.

Not completely, two points still lowers the GCD triggered by overpower to 1.0sec rather than 1.5sec. A single point is rendered useless unless the user's expertise is not capped. (since this is not ideal, I would imagine this is not something blizzard would tune the talent for, unless they overlooked it entirely)

Well, I'm using DPSSim to get some stat weights. Probably not the best method but works good enough for me (and is better than nothing :-)) - simply get some average DPS with base stats/gear, then increase for example crit by some amount, get new average DPS and calculate how much DPS increase is one crit rating from that.

The most impact for me from new TfB will be in situations when I can put Rend on more than one target - basicaly Arms DPS in aoe situations has been nerfed a bit with this 6s cooldown (unless it is counted per target/Rend - we will have to test it).

Hm, it will certainly be a single-target buff to Arms but Tankietka beat me to pointing out that it is a potential nerf to multi-target situations (2-3 targets at the moment is very good for Arms as we can Rend everything and Sweeping Strikes using the Rage saved from frequent Overpower procs to keep Cleaving...)

Why not buff it to a 50% proc rate (still averaging out at 1 / 6s for one target) rather than introducing a cooldown (which as previously noted has the secondary effect of devaluing UA..) I do understand that the devs have decided that "Arms is too RNG" but the skill in managing CDs and Rage in the face of variable procs is part of what makes Arms more fun than Fury for me...

A quick question ... Shattering Throw has been set at 20% Armour reduction, somewhat suspiciously exactly the same as a full stack of Sunder ... are we sure that it stack?

MMO-Champion BlueTracker - Thoughts on PTR Warrior Changes. Constructive Confirms that it stacks.