A fun fact, if your bladestorm starts before you get a spike in Marrowgar, you keep bladestorming, and hits your own spike. Anyone tried it on the valkyrs of Lich King?

The past few times I have tried this it's stopped the bladestorm, you may get 1-2 hits off if you're lucky, but by no means have I noticed it continuing to full duration.

We havent gotten very far on lich king 25 but I just want to concur that sweeping strikes (do it 20-24s before valkyrs spawn) + bladestorm is absolutely amazing. Its good enough that we might have our fury warrior go arms just to abuse the mechanic. This might not be neccessary in the high end guilds but for middle guilds, the ease of timing the bladestorm for maximum utility seems worth it.


Another trick to do on the fight is to use ss (again 15s before fight starts) + bladestorm on the first set of adds that spawn and have the paladin tank taunt off of you. This allows your rogues to tricks the MT and your hunters to misdirect the shamblers and not have anything to worry about the ghouls. We call this 'warrior tricks'. The main downside is the adds will be lower health when they get to the tank.

4 pc T10 is also very good on this fight as your sweeping strikes + cleaves will proc sudden death a lot. Slam ends up being used much more rarely than normal due to the extra rage cost of cleave and the high chance of Sudden Death procs. Also, dont forget that expertise is worth double for cleave/ss and quadruple for bladestorm so its definitely worth capping. Im using T10 Legs + bloodbath belt + 1 pt weapon mastery to cap. We are wiping at or before the 2nd valkyrs and my uptime on Sudden death is 35% vs. 12.4% on Saurfang (Granted i was not using 4pc on Saurfang so this number is skewed some).

Yeah the SS+Bladestorm is something I've been using since I was able to put a point in Bladestorm. It's amazing, I've seen upwards of 19000 DPS for the duration of it, and that's in my crappy gear..

I have a question though for whoever can answer.. What do Warriors do about threat? I usually wait and charge in after I see the tank run through it's first few of their rotation, I like to wait for the other DPS to get in there hits.. And I know DPS =/= TPS but I always seem to catch up in threat with the tank.. Especially in ten mans.. I'm not aware of a threat dump.. And I've read that you ALWAYS use your GCD.. So what do you do to keep threat from catching up with the tank? Do you throw in Sunders? Or maybe a Demo Shout? Refresh Battle Shout? Help keep me from dying lol

Ive noticed that if I go all out on DPS I have to ask Hand Of Salvation multiple times in a single fight. Usually already before fight I ask some paladin to cast it on me 2-3 times on fight.

Make sure you're giving the tank a few seconds to put some threat down on the boss. If there is a warrior tank then ask for Vigilance every pull. Salvation is great as well if you tip off one of your paladins to give it to you at X time in the fight or whatever. Seriously now. If you are pulling threat then it's probably the tank's fault. Tell your tank to get more threat.

No, it isn't. At least, it pales in comparison to the threat you would have generated via one of your rotational strikes, which should be critting comfortably north of 10K (everything in Battle Stance, of course).

Sparing GCDs on 'upkeep' abilities such as shouts, sunders etc. is one small thing you can do, but hopefully your Rogues and Hunters are fully leveraging Tricks/MDs if your raid is bumping up against the threat ceiling. Ghostcrawler recently pointed out that 'damage and therefore threat generation aren't scaling well at very high levels of gear.' To me, this means that barring encounter-specific dynamics that lower your threat relative to a tank (eg. DPS switches off of Putricide to kill Oozes, tank obviously keeps building threat), threat management is a raid-wide responsibility. Yes, some of Arms' threat mechanics are broken, but if you're riding high on Omen, chances are others are as well and the issue lies elsewhere.

With massive damage incoming it could be, otherwise as arms you wouldn't use cleave as often as a fury do...
Also as a fury there isn't much difference between singletarget damage while cleaving and singletarget damage while only singletargetdamaging. As arms you have to use TC instead of a singletarget style so you loose much more boss-dps while cleaving as arms compared to fury.

In my experience it really depends on the number of targets and fight length.

When it's just two targets, the extra damage from WW for fury is pretty much offset by getting the extra SS damage on arms, and both of you will be cleaving like mad. This is regardless of fight length.

For 3-4 targets, in short fights arms can destroy with bladestorm, but fury will quickly catch up and surpass you. The four casters at the beginning of the VDW fight, I can charge in to the middle of all four and hit bladestorm and they live about as long as the bladestorm lasts. In those 10ish seconds I do about 20k dps. Hard for fury to beat that kind of snap damage on a group of targets. However, even with SS and thunderclap, fury whirlwind doing 8 hits every 10 seconds with two handed weapons means that in fights longer than 30s fury will start to catch up and then eventually lead. For instance on Anub, you can destroy the first set of adds that spawn in 25m, but then the second set you won't have bladestorm and so it is more difficult to be competitive.

For 5+ targets (and much higher numbers) arms definitely wins again with thunderclap, simply because as you stated you suddenly have a an ability that hits all mobs in the area with a high crit rate and a low cooldown. Additionally, the high crit rate on tclap means you get a bunch of deep wounds damage ticking, which is awesome.

This is nothing new, it uses AP since Wotlk (maybe even before), so it only gains 200% crit damage instead of 150%, which is nice but not really important.

With an Incite build the new Thunder Clap 3.3.3 will gain enough to become a great GCD even on 2 targets.

A Shadow's edge swing hits for 1091 + 26.42%AP. The new TC on 2 target is (390 + 15.6%AP)*2 = 780 + 31.2%AP. Deep wound component is 524 + 12.68%AP for both.

If we consider 50% crit chances, incite, impale, axe and meta the average damage before armor and multipliers is:

TC: (0.65*2.39 + 0.35) * (780 + 31.2%AP) + 2 * 0.65 * (524 + 12.68%AP) = 2166 + 75.87%AP
Slam: (0.5*2.39 + 0.5) * (1341 + 26.42%AP) + 0.5 * (524 + 12.68%AP) = 2535 + 51.12%AP (<TC after 1500sh AP)
Exe@30: (0.5*2.39 + 0.5) * (2026 + 20%AP) + 0.5 * (524 + 12.68%AP) = 3696 + 40.24%AP (<TC after 4300sh AP)
MS: (0.5*2.39 + 0.5) * (1471 + 23.57%AP) * 1.21 + 0.5 * (524 + 12.68%AP) = 3334 + 56.01%AP (<TC after 5900sh AP)

So TC will be our 2nd best DpGCD on 2 targets after OP in current raids, with 3 or more target may become top priority and scales very well.