Doesn't OP come after SD since the 3.1 change to TfB? Since you don't have to worry about wasting OP procs from successive rend ticks, or ticks from multiple rends?
It is because of posibility of SD to chain proc - sometimes i have 4-5 SD executes in row...
OP anyway comes first if you are <1.5s from t4b refresh.
Since SDvsMS was discussed a few times, I'd say it's more a matter of keeping the flow of gcd. So if you are at 40 rage if you MS first you will be able to SD after it, while the opposite doesnt work.
Actually the chances to miss an SD are slightly more damage than MS delay (not entirely due to MS but cause of slam usage, Graul and Shha did explain it earlier in the post), but the more you gear up the more MS will come closer to execute even surpassing it at some point.
Why is ArP good? Well for those of you that aren't sure there is a really simple way to check it out. While running BT for Glaives at 80 I noticed that damage in BT received a huge increase on my part but did not increase greatly for the casters. You don't have to put too much thought into why the damage went up so much because it's simple. While for casters there is almost no difference between a BC boss and a WotLK boss in terms of hit and for melees additionally in terms of expertise the big change comes from boss armor. Bosses have a large difference in armor between BC and WotLK and since ArP works exactly as effecitve in reducing armor on BC bosses as on WotLK it becomes clear that when you are able to do almost 9k DPS in BT with lower armor values your DPS increase will be huge if you could achieve the same ArP reduction as in BT. There will be always a difference since WotLK bosses have an armor that is naturally higher of those in BC but thanks to the change in ArP calculation with % it has become more effective. High ArP should essentially mean you fight bosses of older quality you simply downgrade them to a BC lvl.
Currently I don't have any trouble breaking even with most of the other DPS classes and when you consider that ArP doesn't receive the full contribution at the moment and is bugged I wouldn't be surprised if we could dominate damage in the future. I am currently at ~33% ArP with gear and using Grim Toll. If I recall correctly DPS was bouncing at 5.5k+ on Kologarn and Thorim yesterday.
Why is ArP good? Well for those of you that aren't sure there is a really simple way to check it out. While running BT for Glaives at 80 I noticed that damage in BT received a huge increase on my part but did not increase greatly for the casters. You don't have to put too much thought into why the damage went up so much because it's simple. While for casters there is almost no difference between a BC boss and a WotLK boss in terms of hit and for melees additionally in terms of expertise the big change comes from boss armor. Bosses have a large difference in armor between BC and WotLK and since ArP works exactly as effecitve in reducing armor on BC bosses as on WotLK it becomes clear that when you are able to do almost 9k DPS in BT with lower armor values your DPS increase will be huge if you could achieve the same ArP reduction as in BT. There will be always a difference since WotLK bosses have an armor that is naturally higher of those in BC but thanks to the change in ArP calculation with % it has become more effective. High ArP should essentially mean you fight bosses of older quality you simply downgrade them to a BC lvl.
Currently I don't have any trouble breaking even with most of the other DPS classes and when you consider that ArP doesn't receive the full contribution at the moment and is bugged I wouldn't be surprised if we could dominate damage in the future. I am currently at ~33% ArP with gear and using Grim Toll. If I recall correctly DPS was bouncing at 5.5k+ on Kologarn and Thorim yesterday.
So do you think this is something people should Regem for?
Alright, ive looked around in this thread a bit, but there are ALOT of post so i might have missed it....
but I have Jawbone, im about to try arms with this new patch, but im wondering if Arms weapon spec is still like it use to be, where you cant be competitive in arms w/o a axe? Is this still the case?
Alright, ive looked around in this thread a bit, but there are ALOT of post so i might have missed it....
but I have Jawbone, im about to try arms with this new patch, but im wondering if Arms weapon spec is still like it use to be, where you cant be competitive in arms w/o a axe? Is this still the case?
That should not be true anymore, I'll regem today for ArP and switch to Jawbone. We'll raid Mimiron today so I'll try to get some dps data on max ArP. It used to be that Rend+Deep Wounds compromised almost 30% of my damage but that is changing.
After running around with ArP regemmed gear I noticed a decent increase as arms DPS.Nonetheless,with ArP beeing on 0,81 of value instead of 1,251,do you guys still think ArP,in its current state,is as worth as a stat to choose instead of streangh?The test was made on raid enviroment,specificaly on Emalon,and results were about 100dps more that the str gems.Any thoughts?
Is anyone else having problems with addons. Specifically quartz seems to be real screwy. Prior to the patch i was able to have a view of my debuffs on my target, i.e rend sunder, trauma, etc. Now for some reason it is showing every debuff on the target not just mine. Which creates a huge distraction in the middle of the screen. Does anyone have an addon that would solve this problem? I liked quartz alot b4. It really shouldnt be so hard to just have a visual of my rend, DW, trauma.
On the Arms rotation what takes priority between Slam and Heroic strike?
If MS is on CD and no SD proc and no overpower up are people doing HS if a white hit is coming up or should I always be hitting slam? Right now HS and Slam are making up a very small amount of my damage as I seem very cooldown starved.
On the Arms rotation what takes priority between Slam and Heroic strike?
If MS is on CD and no SD proc and no overpower up are people doing HS if a white hit is coming up or should I always be hitting slam? Right now HS and Slam are making up a very small amount of my damage as I seem very cooldown starved.
As far as I know, you should only be using HS if you are drowning in rage - i.e, if your next white swing is going to take you over 100 rage. Slam fills every GCD that isn't filled by something else, and can replace MS in low rage situations.
Originally Posted by Bula
"They were bad, stop trying to figure out why bad players do bad things."
After running around with ArP regemmed gear I noticed a decent increase as arms DPS.Nonetheless,with ArP beeing on 0,81 of value instead of 1,251,do you guys still think ArP,in its current state,is as worth as a stat to choose instead of streangh?The test was made on raid enviroment,specificaly on Emalon,and results were about 100dps more that the str gems.Any thoughts?
If you consider that Blizzard might fix ArP in the near future ArP will definetly be the Stat #1. I also regemmed for ArP today reaching 48.39% with ArP buff-food. I have to say the increase was about 300-400 dps and not too bad but you have to consider that once you have more STR with Ulduar equip you'll be able to see a greater dps increase. Alone the fact that ArP is bugged at the moment and you still do more damage with ArP should be convincing enough to go all the way for ArP. I also used Jawbone today and when you also consider the dps difference on the weapon compared to Betrayer then with superior Ulduar Weapons you should even be able to see a greater difference to axe spec.
EDIT: Something on the side, when you gem for ArP get used to big crits.
Is anyone else having problems with addons. Specifically quartz seems to be real screwy. Prior to the patch i was able to have a view of my debuffs on my target, i.e rend sunder, trauma, etc. Now for some reason it is showing every debuff on the target not just mine. Which creates a huge distraction in the middle of the screen. Does anyone have an addon that would solve this problem? I liked quartz alot b4. It really shouldnt be so hard to just have a visual of my rend, DW, trauma.
Blizzard made a stealth change to the API call UnitBuff(). It used to return isMine as a boolean (true/false). Now it returns the person who cast the buff/debuff. Just open up Quartz_Buff and change any place that says
if(isMine)
to
if(isMine=="player")
. Alternately, I made those fixes and you can just download it: Quartz_Buff.rar
Random post I know, and for that I apologize. I just wanted to clear up some things. I think my DPS is a bit too low, or maybe I'm wrong, not totally sure.
Spec: 54/17
Major Glyphs: Execution, Rending, Mortal Strike
Minor Glyphs: Bloodrage, Battle
=========
Since 3.1, obviously I have went from Fury to Arms. The testing I've done is on the Heroic Training Dummy (The boss dummy). Here is the following points I have kept in mind while putting out a 10 minute fight. (Listed in order of importance in my opinion).
- Rend Is Kept Up (Refreshed if dropped)
- Procs:
-- Execute
-- Overpower
- Bladestorm (Always with Trinket)
- Mortal Strike
- Slam
- Heroic Strike (As a rage dump only)
With this in mind, I'm pulling around 2400 - 2500 DPS. The only buff that I apply to myself is Battle Shout. Anything else comes from the battle. (I.E., no food buffs, no elixirs, etc..)
Is this normal? Low? Average? I feel it's kinda low. Any tips / suggestions would be appreciated.
Just a quick question i have been switch out ap/stam and some strength gems for arp gem sitting on 147 arp rating (11.94%) + 15% from mace spec. So do i combined that to be 26.94% arp and how much more do i need.
My crit is down a bit from regemming and switch items out and i think i am pretty sweet with expertise and hit any advice is much appreciated.
Lastly what is the best enchant I can have on either Jawbone or Evitables defeat i know i am probably gimping myself atm with +85ap enchant been tank spec for a bit so just catching up on dps spec'ing again.
Long time reader, first time poster. I shelved my warrior a month or so before 3.1 went live, and I've been trying to read up on Arms PvE atm, and there seems to be some controversy over to gem for ArP or STR.
So far my character has 974 base STR with 172 ArP.
Basically my question is this:
At what point should I regem completely for ArP? I've read that ArP is a DPS gain at which point STR suffers from diminishing returns... I'm just trying to get a vague idea of where that line is, so I know when to regem.
Just a quick question i have been switch out ap/stam and some strength gems for arp gem sitting on 147 arp rating (11.94%) + 15% from mace spec. So do i combined that to be 26.94% arp and how much more do i need.
My crit is down a bit from regemming and switch items out and i think i am pretty sweet with expertise and hit any advice is much appreciated.
Lastly what is the best enchant I can have on either Jawbone or Evitables defeat i know i am probably gimping myself atm with +85ap enchant been tank spec for a bit so just catching up on dps spec'ing again.
Random post I know, and for that I apologize. I just wanted to clear up some things. I think my DPS is a bit too low, or maybe I'm wrong, not totally sure.
Spec: 54/17
Major Glyphs: Execution, Rending, Mortal Strike
Minor Glyphs: Bloodrage, Battle
=========
Since 3.1, obviously I have went from Fury to Arms. The testing I've done is on the Heroic Training Dummy (The boss dummy). Here is the following points I have kept in mind while putting out a 10 minute fight. (Listed in order of importance in my opinion).
- Rend Is Kept Up (Refreshed if dropped)
- Procs:
-- Execute
-- Overpower
- Bladestorm (Always with Trinket)
- Mortal Strike
- Slam
- Heroic Strike (As a rage dump only)
With this in mind, I'm pulling around 2400 - 2500 DPS. The only buff that I apply to myself is Battle Shout. Anything else comes from the battle. (I.E., no food buffs, no elixirs, etc..)
Is this normal? Low? Average? I feel it's kinda low. Any tips / suggestions would be appreciated.
- Sajakain
I have a similar question that may also help answer your question
Dmg 1457-1751
AP 3379
ArP 453 (36.78%)
Hit 270
Crit 38.15%
Exp 23
Avg DPS on test dummy is 3500-3700
Also, what kind of total DPS increase should we see when they fix ArP assuming fully 25man buffed we are at 70%+ ArP?
Last edited by uglygreenguy : 04/18/09 at 2:51 AM.
According to Ghostcrawler, armorpen is working as they intended.
Source : MMO-Champion BlueTracker - 116% Armor Pen only giving 66%!?!?!?!
I wouldn`t really expect a buff to it anytime soon if blizz is actually stating the formula for armorpen and claiming it`s working correctly.
I have a similar question that may also help answer your question
Dmg 1457-1751
AP 3379
ArP 453 (36.78%)
Hit 270
Crit 38.15%
Exp 23
Avg DPS on test dummy is 3500-3700
- uglygreenguy
How are you pulling off such high DPS because I have Similar stats to you apart from I dont have 453 ArP i got about 50 and I'm doing 2.4-2.5k Dps on boss dummy. Looks like ArP could be the future to Arms if 400 ArP can increase DPS to 1000 unless I am doing something drastically wrong.
Originally Posted by Sajakain
Random post I know, and for that I apologize. I just wanted to clear up some things. I think my DPS is a bit too low, or maybe I'm wrong, not totally sure.
Spec: 54/17
Major Glyphs: Execution, Rending, Mortal Strike
Minor Glyphs: Bloodrage, Battle
=========
Since 3.1, obviously I have went from Fury to Arms. The testing I've done is on the Heroic Training Dummy (The boss dummy). Here is the following points I have kept in mind while putting out a 10 minute fight. (Listed in order of importance in my opinion).
- Rend Is Kept Up (Refreshed if dropped)
- Procs:
-- Execute
-- Overpower
- Bladestorm (Always with Trinket)
- Mortal Strike
- Slam
- Heroic Strike (As a rage dump only)
With this in mind, I'm pulling around 2400 - 2500 DPS. The only buff that I apply to myself is Battle Shout. Anything else comes from the battle. (I.E., no food buffs, no elixirs, etc..)
Is this normal? Low? Average? I feel it's kinda low. Any tips / suggestions would be appreciated.
- Sajakain
I also feel the same as Sajakain. I have similiar stats and dps to Sajakain but 38 % crit. I also feel its sort of low. Unless this is what people are doing on Dummies.
After three days straight Ulduar raiding I noticed for myself that i have some problems to use HS when i have 100 Rage. Especially in chaotic fights like Mimiron. At the moment i use HS only when we melees get damage and I am sure that my rage wont drop for other GCDs.
I also wonder what is better when MS has 1 second cooldown on it and no other Procc is up. Wait for MS or throw in a Slam and waste 0,5s (probably a little more, due to my connection and fps lags) or wait for MS and waste 1 second GCD?
I have a similar question that may also help answer your question
Dmg 1457-1751
AP 3379
ArP 453 (36.78%)
Hit 270
Crit 38.15%
Exp 23
Avg DPS on test dummy is 3500-3700
Also, what kind of total DPS increase should we see when they fix ArP assuming fully 25man buffed we are at 70%+ ArP?
=================
=================
Originally Posted by tmacismagic
How are you pulling off such high DPS because I have Similar stats to you apart from I dont have 453 ArP i got about 50 and I'm doing 2.4-2.5k Dps on boss dummy. Looks like ArP could be the future to Arms if 400 ArP can increase DPS to 1000 unless I am doing something drastically wrong.
I also feel the same as Sajakain. I have similiar stats and dps to Sajakain but 38 % crit. I also feel its sort of low. Unless this is what people are doing on Dummies.
Well, going off the first quote, 3500-3700 DPS on the Dummy Boss? All I have to say is...Wow. Your stats are similar to mine, give or take on some with the exception of one stat. Armor Penetration. (I'm presuming this is what ArP is.). Yours is at 453 (36.78%) while mine is only at 86 (6.98%). The only thing left to determine, as far as differences, is our rotation. I've supplied mine in my previous post. Is yours the same, or similar to it? Or is it completely different?
I just ran SW with a random raid and why do I mention SW? Because, we had another Arms warrior with Betrayer and boss fights are still boss fights. The result is pretty simple.
I used ArP Gems and primarily ArP equip, he used axe spec and STR gems. To just sum up things the generall dps order is ArP+Axe > ArP+Mace = STR+Axe for Naxx weapons. While I was able to keep up with his dps with my Jawbone on most fights I was even able to catch up and pass him on Brutallus. I lost quite a few GCD for Sunder Armor but in the end I had ~450 dps more than him. Jawbone being a inferior weapon to Betrayer I could imagine an equal weapon to easily compete with axe spec. When I switched to Betrayer on KJ the dps looked totally different after we Bladestormed the 3 mobs just before KJ I had exactly 7.8k and he had 7k. In the end the ArP and Betrayer combo won the dps race, the only question would remain if it was because of spec or because Betrayer is a superior weapon.
One more thing that is worth mentioning is damage on the attacks we did, the big difference between equip on our side is that i have roughly 34% crit and he had 41%, AP being almost the same like most of the other values:
ArP MS
Avg crit 4k
Max crit 8.3k
STR/Crit MS
Avg crit 3k
Max crit 7k
there were similiar numbers throughout recount. Considering what I have seen so far I'd have to say crit is one of the most unreliable stats ever. ArP being most dominant and being followed by STR. Crit numbers in our cases were to random to say or predict that one of us really had more crit. If you get lucky and crit a lot you'll get good dps but I wouldn't call that dependent dps.
I also don't think the bleeding damage is an argument against ArP. While I lost 300 damage on my rend ticks for one I gained over 1k+ on most of my attacks.
04/16/09, 6:54 PM
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