There's something that many seems to not factor in their thoughts about expertise.
In case of dodge you get an OP, but OP itself CANT be dodged or parried but just miss.
Now with an average 10 PPm with nearly full uptime of rend, 1/4rth of your gcds should be a spell that can't use any advantage of expertise.

Yeah, I think the reason it SEP's so low is that it has no effect on a decent chunk of our dps and some percent of the time you recoup the dodge as a spare OP, get a free crit and 1/3rd of a GCD back.

Those two things together is why it hits like .95 SEP instead of 1.15, imo.

Near as I can tell, Landsoul's sheet is overvaluing Expertise, not undervaluing it. There's no model I can find in the spreadsheet for recoup'd overpowers due to dodges. The simple fact that overpower can't be dodged and the amount of arms dps which comes from bleeds is what causes the SEP value to be what it is. If someone else does find that model, I'll happily eat my words, but I looked all over all the associations to dodge%'s and didn't see it.

Modeling it isnt that easy. I didn't test this but if the proc eats t4b charge then you'd need to use op as fast as it procs to have more chances that your dodged hit gets a possible OP.

This is a quote from Landsoul to shed on this topic of expertise and his spreadsheet.

Personally, before the spreadsheet was updated, I was also already planning to have little expertise from gear. Funny how a tree that doesn't really benefit as much from expertise has 2 talents that benefit it. Meanwhile the Fury tree that needs it a lot more has none.

While looking at a few arms warriors specs (including lode runner) I've noticed a lack of Trauma in some, could somebody elaborate as to why that is? It seems to me like a decent raid buff, is it perhaps brought by another class in those peoples raids?

Also, is it worth it taking berserking despite i lowering our armour and thus our Attack power? I wonder the same about many leather pieces.

Trauma is the same as mangle. If you have a feral druid in your raid (especially a tank), then mangle will (should) always be up.

As for the armor, the gain/loss is rather negligible when you consider how much better itemized the leather is in many cases. Also, berserking is most definitely worth it.

hey everyone, im new to arms, trying to get a grasp on things and what i should be doing, hit rotations and what not, ive been doing about 2200dps(in heroics) 3000(in naxx 25) and ive been playing with it for about 2 weeks and seeing no progress really ever since, i was wondering if anyone could give me any help or tips on how to get my dps up, all help will be greatly appreciated...if you wanna look up my gear....i am on the server "thorium brotherhood" and my warriors name is Tbalpha... ty for your time, its greatly appreciated, and ty for any help

How much crit is TOO much? I'm pushing 40% in batttle stance and was hoping to drop some to gain more strrength and armor penetration. I'm at 3200 AP and roughly 200 ArP.

Yeah, this activity seems difficult and low-value. I wasn't knocking landsoul for not doing it in the least. It would have been moderately a waste of time imo.

What I really meant was: If anything, expertise is even worse than .95 SEP and we should not go out of our way to cap it... and we should make that an arms baseline assumption. In my experience, rage starvation is basically a nonissue as long as you run with WM.

I have been running under cap for a while now... for those of us choosing to stack ArP to the exclusion of capping expertise, there's a new thing to throw into the already complicated mental picture of arms dps: TfB uptime minimization. The better you can keep that mental timer on your TfB rotation so you're hitting OP as close to proc as possible, the more likely it is that you can convert a slam into an OP in the unlucky event that you see a dodge.

WTB armory to count for talents in crit %. 38% unbuffed is pretty normal as axe spec. Most warriors only strive to have ~33% from gear, so when you throw in axe spec, you're right at where you should be itemize wise. Your ArP is a bit low, but that will come quite easily when you get into ulduar. Your AP is a tad low, nothing a few gem changes can't fix.

I'd drop the hit gems in your belt for +16 str gems (+32 str = +64 AP) and enchant your gloves for +20 hit to put you at (-32 hit + 20 hit = -12 hit = 242 / 237 hit rating /// + 20 AP); Then change your yellow gems to +8 str and + 8 critical strike rating, and your blue gems to +8 str and + 12 stamina.

Hay, I am looking to see if any one knows of a good rage watcher. I am having a hard time throwing Heroic Strikes into my rotation when my rage gets capped. With all of the things to watch for in ulduar I am wondering if any one knows of a heads up display of rage addon.

Thanks for your help. Also did we ever determine whats better to prioritize MS or Execute pro. Just skimming through i see lots of arguments both ways.

I use Digits as discussed here.

Basically, a numerical display of your rage. I keep the number is just below my toon, just below the center of my screen.

RageBar might also be useful.

I've just started lvl'n a arms war for kicks while not raiding, i use a mod called ArcHUD. Used it for ever as a energy/combo points device on my rogue.


Just set it to only show ur rage bar, works great as it right there next to your char.

Have anyone a chardev or something with Ulduar BIS Gear?
I have made one, is this good? chardev.org v6 ~ a World of Warcraft character planner
What can i improve?

After browsing thrue the forums and trying to figure out eaither to use Mace or Axe ive come up with basicly nothing.
Landsouls spreadsheet says that Furious Crusher (Mace) would end up about 240 dps behind Furious Decapitator (Axe).

While the spreadsheet comes to that conclusition there are alot of arguments that the mace with mace specc when above a certain amount of ArP would benefit more then Axe specc.

So anyone with alot of insight in this subject, wich would i benefit from more with basicly BiS items from ulduar?

My guild is a 25-man raiding guild but a group of us have been working on 10-man on off nights. I got a pretty nice chest piece last night [Chestplate of Titanic Fury], have been wearing the Valorous chest piece. I am in mace spec and pretty much stay in battle stance unless I'm needed to do some interrupts.

I'm concerned that the lack of hit and crit on the new chest will be too much to lose, even at the added Armor Penetration. With the Valorous (two ArP gems in it), my hit is 277, crit at 29% (with talents), ArP rating at 163. Switching to the new piece would raise my ArP to 218, but lower my hit to 211 and drop my crit about 2%. I think the price is too high right now, but obviously am keeping the piece for future use.

Question is, at what point do I need to completely prioritize ArP over all else? I know this has been hashed about a bit, but it seems there are some conflicting opinions about it, and I don't have Excel access to play around with the spreadsheet. I do not have any ArP trinkets, but could switch out some strength gems and up my ArP another 100 or so without sacrificing any more hit or crit, With that, can I get away with being under the hit cap and a lower crit rating in order to have an ArP around 300-320?

The first post in the spreadsheet thread has some items listed as BiS. The main differences look like the weapons and the second trinket.

The only way you can reliably answer questions about gear is by using the spreadsheet. You can download a trial of Excel and using this would answer all of your questions. It's really just not possible to get a worthwhile answer otherwise. I am pretty sure you should not go under the hit cap at all though.

OP has a 1.0s GCD compared with a 1.5s for everything else. Assuming we are both hit and expertise capped, across one minute TfB procs 10 OP's giving us 5s extra seconds due to the difference in GCD time.

I'm not sure what the implications of this are, but it occurred to me as I was considering the priority chart posted earlier in the thread.

Once we're into our rotation (i.e. after the first TfB proc), this works out at an extra GCD every 18s (13 GCD's rather than 12 for our Fury brethren). I believe Arms will have the following rotation.

GCD Ability
1 Rend
2 MS
3 Slam (or SD)

And then by the 4th GCD we have our first TfB proc and we start a 13 ability/18s rotation prioritising this way

SD > MS > Rend > OP > Slam

A few notes as this priority is different to those posted earlier:

1. Refreshing Rend is a lower priority than MS & SD because it only needs to be up within 3s of its last tick in order to keep the TfB procs at 1 per 6s & this allows us to keep MS on as close to possible its 5s CD and due to the possibility of multiple SD procs in a row
2. MS and SD will switch priority at the scaling point where MS does more damage than SD
3. To keep 13 GCD/18s ratio we must use OP within the 6s proc window of TfB

So my question then, is this extra 0.5s off the GCD significant enough to allow us the extra GCD per 18s or will latency and other factors eliminate the time saved? If yes, what does this imply? (In short, does thinking about this add any extra value?)

Is it worth using Shattering throw in a boss pull, and does it stack?

Using Shattering throw on the pull is a complete waste. It's only up for 10 seconds so you want the most bang for the buck. We chain two in a row during bloodlust when people are popping CDs anyway to get the most out of it. If you use it on the pull half of it will be wasted as dps gets into position and starts their rotations.

As far as it stacking I don't know for sure yet personally. I had been discussing this with some guildies and we were planning on trying it out tonight. Based on how arp scales it would make sense to stack it since it's more effective the more of it you have. Although since it's duration is very short there may be something to be said for having it up for a larger portion of lust. Tonight if we don't one shot Vezax I'll try to test both methods.

The best time to use Shattering Throw is the same as any other damage increasing cooldown - during heroism/bloodlust. If you've got multiple warriors get them to chain throws together so you can get 20-30 secs of the debuff up under heroism.

During the boss pull is probably one of the worst times - debuffs are still going up and not everyones in position to DPS.