asbani

hello everybody, this is my first post here. I know there been serveral questions about ArP. ive read most of them, but still not quiet sure if I should replace my ArP Gems with Strength, It's confusing me because everyday something changed. Also my english is not very good.

I don't know the ArP Rating, it doesn't show in my status, but when I mousehover on my Hit Rating, I see my ArP as 13.07%

keep in mind all my gem slots are ArP so that gives you an idea that in my gear there is not much ArP. and ive been raeding everywhere. in each place people are saying differentely. such as if I don't have more than 30% from gear, I shouldn't gem ArP, and others saying something else too. so please advice me here guys, should I keep my ArP Gems on my slots, or change them to strength?

one thing i've noticed one day, that when I changed on my pants/boots the ArP Gems to Strength, I lost DPS. dunno if its a RNG fault there or is it the gem.

thanks

 

Origence

Ok then we can assume:
- Critical Strike Rating counts towards Thunder Clap Crit.
- Agility doesn't.
- Talents like Poleaxe specalization and Cruelty doesn't neither.

All is left to know is which raid buffs do affect it.
Spell Critical Strike Chance Buff: Moonkin Aura, Elemental Oath
Spell Critical Strike Chance Debuff: Improved Scorch, Winter's Chill
Critical Strike Chance Taken Debuff (All types): Heart of the Crusader, Totem of Wrath

Those are the theorical candidates. Considering my results and Rampage/LotP tooltips these buffs dont affect it.

Thunder Clap is just a small contribution for AoE damage but considering this it benefits more from Plate than Leather.

 

brutalbovine

This seems obvious, reading the tooltips on Thunderclap, Poleaxe Spec, and Cruelty. Thunderclap indicates that its damage is nature; Poleaxe Spec indicates it affects attacks that are done with an axe or polearm and Cruelty states that it affects critical strike with melee weapons. If I remember correctly (and I may not), you can Thunderclap while disarmed which would indicate it's not performed with your weapon (and therefore receives no benefit from a weapon specialization or Cruelty).

EDIT: I apologize for the misinformation, I was under the assumption that Thunderclap still did nature damage. Thanks for the correction, glassdirigible. With that being the case, it should be affected by Cruelty. Since it apparently isn't, I guess it's a bug?

 

glassdirigible

It's been a long time since Thunder Clap did nature damage. It now does physical damage.

According to WowWiki:

 

Xerinos

Thanks for the Info! Using what you provided here are 2 macros i have come up with. Feedback would be great.

This macro simply converts your armor penetration rating into a % in the chat frame just for quick viewing when itemizing or w/e.


/script DEFAULT_CHAT_FRAME:AddMessage("Your Current Armor Penetration is:")
/script DEFAULT_CHAT_FRAME:AddMessage((GetCombatRating(25)/12.31)*)



This one does a bit more calculation and is more specific to the warrior class in battle stance. This macro calculates the expected armor penetration percentage against a raid boss that is under the effects of Sunderx5 and FF. It also combines the 10% armor penetration effect of battle stance with the armor penetration rating from Gear.

/script DEFAULT_CHAT_FRAME:AddMessage("Your Current Armor Penetration is:")
/script DEFAULT_CHAT_FRAME:AddMessage((((GetCombatRating(25)/12.31)+10) /((GetCombatRating(25)/12.2)+24+10))*100)

I know these macros are a bit trivial in usage and neccessity but i find it quite fun to tap this macro during a boss fight and notice that im ignoring 86% of the targets armor ^.^

 

Andrick

Some things I saw recently in this thread and wanted to jump in with some of my views.

Wow Web Stats

Here is my WWS log from XT last week. At that point I was not using my current bracers, I was therefore several Expertise over the cap, and lower on crit and ArP than I currently am.

As you can see HS can be weaved in for succesful damage. Especially if you are about to Bladestorm I would strongly advise queing up a HS as often coming out of a bladestorm your rage will be at 100.

I also Bladestorm straight after Shattering throw on the basis that Bladestorm puts more attacks in. ( A yellow attack every second compared to 1.5 second GCD if using other attacks).

Also my priority system is Execute>MS>OP. This is based on the fact that OP has a 6second window in which you can use it, and as MS has a 5 second CD unles you get an insane RNG proc rate on SD you wont delay your OP long enough to miss a proc.

 

Louch

Back on the subject of ArP I was wondering if 70% passive ArP from gear without counting battle stance would be a good place to aim for, because with 5% from faerie fire/CoW, 10% from battle stance, 20%/(20% from mace spec) from sunders we'd hit 105% in a raid situation and we'd see the full potentials of any grim toll/executioner (7%)/ulduar trinket proc putting us at quite a large dmg increase.

Also, at 63% executioner may also be viable as the proc up time should be enough to sustain the 70% in accordance to other procs, (as at this amount of armor pen i'm sure 400 ap wouldn't scale anything close to 7% ArP)

edit: added 15% from mace spec.

 

hellord

Unfortunately gear and debuffs don't stack additively. So you need both ff and sunder already present to consider the 104.5% "cap" for bosses. With only sunder up the cap raises to 107% for ex.

Until they change arp to be capped at 100% you don't even have to consider it since the damage you can get after it brings arp to highest values possible.
So supposing you are able toreach the cap, you would start replacing everything with arp possibly.

Executioner is still a very good enchant but you need a lot of AP, arp and crit to sustain the loss of AP you get from berserk. Its uptime is lower even and you need quite a lot of stats before being able to make Executioner>Berserk.

ArP Whore

 

ben3003

Hi, i am new to this forum. I've been reading but i have never post something. Now i am quite confused, so i wanna ask something about ArP. From the spreadsheet, if i change my gem from ArP to STR, i will gain some DPS, probably around 1 per gem change. BUt then, quite some ppl said hitting the ArP soft cap is better. So i dont know what to do now. My ArP is like 28% before 10% from Battle Stance. I havent got my Grim Toll yet as well. Any advice for me?

The World of Warcraft Armory

 

Andrick

Not having Grim toll is a big factor I think. It procs a huge amount of ArP (49%) and has a very good uptime (a 45 sec ICD that seems to literally proc every 45secs). This is quite possibly why going for strength is better for you unless you are reaching a much higher amount of ArP.

Also on trinkets is it worth having[Grim Toll] and [Mjolnir Runestone]? I know that both are obviously very good, however I wonder if there could be the issue that if both proc at the same time you it becomes a bit wasted.

I also assume Mjolnir has a 45sec ICD as well? And has anyone actually run with both these trinkets to see if the procs often clash or if the clashes are low enough that running both of them could just be a huge benefit to overall ArP uptime.

 

Shha

you WANT them to clash, because having both up gains you enormously more benefits then just one.

 

plance53

what is the best dps spec now arms or fury and where is the page that shows where the points r placed

 

ben3003

is there some guide like after how many arp then only we start to focus on gemming for it?

 

bchorn

Yes, input your gear into the spreadsheet and the spreadsheet will tell you what to gem for.

 

ArmsWarriorFTW

Just to confirm, you can thunderclap without a weapon equipped

 

dysent

I was amazed that Landsoul's sheet has me only getting 20 DPS from Mjolnir over Greatness, despite having 840 passive ArP now...
Can anyone using both of these trinkets give me an anectdotal comment on its actual effect on your dps and whether the procs seem to trend towards coinciding?

Have you observed that the dps upgrade from GT/Greatness to GT/Mjolnir is relatively minor as the spreadsheet would indicate or very significant?

[Edit: Also - are you guys having serious threat issues on some fights as arms? Vezax (kite time), Hodir (polar gear) and a couple other fights tend to threat cap the hell out of me when I get rolling because I'm so far ahead of all our other dps on threat. Should I try to work with my tanks on wearing more threat gear and less mit/hp gear, or is this just a problem that decently geared arms has and I just need to monopolize salvs?]

 

Plea

1 salvation is enough for most threat concerns. At Vezax I tend to aggro later into fight, I ask for a salvation at the end of the first minute and it goes smooth afterwards; the paladin can use it two more times in the fight. Similar at Hodir; but it's a much shorter fight, so you should be the only one asking for salvation; unless you have a mage doing 20k dps of course.

 

Andrick

Well from what I gleaned earlier in the thread with an ArP cap of 104.5% its very possible that you are "wasting" some of the stat proc on Mjolnir.

I also believe I saw that 104.5% ArP ignoring mace spec is around 1300ish ArP. Now with both these trinkets proccing over 600 rating they are almost enough to reach the cap on there own, however most warriors in decent gear will be running 600+ ArP rating before procs, at which point if one is enough to take you to the cap, the 2nd proc at the same time will be a rather waste.

Now ideally you'd love both these trinkets to proc at different times it seems so that you are always running at the ArP cap, in reality you are bound to get clashes though. What needs to be determined is how much of the value is lost in a fight with these clashes compared to the value gained when they dont clash.

Also yes threat can be a pain, especially as times Im putting up Sunder, but as mentioned get Salvs early, most classes already have pretty stable aggro dumps so theyre probably most affective on Warriors.

 

dysent

There is no cap. Armor goes negative after you exceed 100% removal. The result is that you hit for absolutely retarded numbers during procs if your passive ArP is high enough.

I bet someone running GT + Mjol could hit an MS crit for upwards of 14-15k off just regular raid buffs...

I managed to slam home one for 12k on Faerlina while screwing around in naxx the other night when the moons aligned and all my trinkets procced while some rogue was ToTTing me (I kept asking him not to, but he thought it'd be funny to get me killed via threat...)
The reason it hits so hard is because at 842 static ArP + 612 proc + 123 stance ArP, I get 128%, remove 9950.4 out of 8088.68 armor, resulting in -1861.7 = (13.92% dmg gain). In other words, hitting 14% harder than I would against a 0 armor rabbit.

If I added a Mjolnir to that, it gives 182% ArP, reducing target to -6059 armor, for a 66%(!!!) damage gain. I'd lose 400 str though (nobles is so good), so it'd probably have been closer to 15k end result.

Try it out - get your armor pen above 100%, use a spec without a %DIMM, then sunder a target dummy and enjoy hitting it for more noncrit damage than the tooltips on your abilities.

 

Andrick

I had used the information from this post as to determine there was a cap.

 

Xerinos

was messing around with landsouls sheet and saw the 20ArP gem and did some digging but still cant find as to how to acquire it
[Fractured Cardinal Ruby]
At first i thought it was a stormjewel? but it seems that they only increase base stats.
any ideas??

 

dysent

His info is dated - we assumed there was a cap. There isn't.

Official 3.1 changes and discussion is where I posted my testing data after Kalroth started saying there's no cap.

I've yet to see anyone come up with a data set that pointed to ArP capping at 100% removal.

[edit: Also - Xerinos - I believe those gems are yet-to-be-added, and will probably be put in for the final instance, kind of like SWP gems were]

 

• BoomBeef

Threat is becoming more of an issue and Hand of Salvation is very limited in time. I recommend working out a macro with your Paladins and request at certain key points on the encounter. A couple were already mentioned in earlier posts but you can go off just threat readouts. Almost reminds me of the early days of whispercast mod and bugging Paladins for buffs every few minutes. But of course we aren't in MC anymore.

 

Xerinos

yea i figured as much XD...well..something to look forward to as long as they dont cap ArP ^.^

 

hellord

They should be found inside fishing daily's reward. They are unique equipped tho.

ArP Whore