Landsoul's spreadsheet informs me I'll be doing slightly less overall dps if I re-gemmed totally to ArP, with a couple blues for the meta.
I've been wondering if I should re-gem for ArP for awhile now, and getting conflicting responses from guildmates and such. Should I re-gem?
Do you want to do slightly less DPS? In any case, this essential question has been answered a few dozen times in this thread. You should only regem ArP once it has a higher SEP value then Str, until then stick with Strength gems.
I was playing around with talents/glyphs, and was thinking of altering the 55/8/8 to work for any raid environment instead of only AOE.
By taking out imp slam, glyphing for heroic strike and simply using H strike instead of slam for a rage dump. All the key dps talents are still there except imp execute and imp slam.
I haven't caught up yet in reading this thread, but I do see some questions regarding armor pen. Currently I am sitting on 641 armor pen which is 52.05% on the tooltip alone, and I am also using grim toll. Since grim toll does add 49%, should I drop some armor pen gems because sunder, ff and battle stance armor pen are not being calculated in this? Because the proc on grim toll I should exceed the cap putting alot of my armor pen to waste when it is active, is there a sweet spot since the patch of armor pen we should reach to optimize stats?
well, I know that much, but do the pauses add up enough during heroism that it would be better to heroic strike or is it not that big a deal?
Slam is not completely replaceable with hs, this is a common misunderstanding maybe due to the old slam mechanic that reset swing.
Slam gets worse with haste, it is true, but unless you can have an outer source of rage you simply can't sustain HS vs slam, nor it will be beneficial in therms of damage.
An arms warrior using HS dumps a substantial quantity of rage in HS, swinging during a BL at around 2.4s.
1 hs will give you a static bonus damage plus the removal of glancing and impale on crit.
Also Slam usage is not really tied to weapon speed. Instead its usage slightly decreases with haste since you should have more SD procs thus less "free gcds" where to slam.
So even at very low speeds achievable with a 2h (fully buffed with BL and 10% haste + BF you swing at around 2.3sh) you won't really slam once per swing but just X times in a given timeframe, and averagely you won't slam that often.
For every HS you lose a white swing. For every 0.5/Speed Slams you lose a swing.
Hs deals more damage than Slam but in a t7+ raid environment the differences in respective bonus becomes smaller while the swing cost stays the same.
At 2.4s you need 5 slams to lose a swing so HS should deal 5 times more damage than slam to be an effective replacement (and still will consume more rage). The point where HS could be better than slam is at around 1.3s.
What changes at very high speeds is the rage income. The gcd is not affected so you theorically slam the same number of times.
Heroic Strike is a rage dump "on next melee" attack, and must be used on top of our other gcd moves to dump rage efficiently.
Yes slam pauses your swing timer so if you spam it you wont get a white swing.
Wrong. Assuming you have Improved Slam (which as Arms you should) you will get swings even if you spam Slam continuously as each Slam pauses swing for 0.5s and you cannot use Slam more often than once per 1.5s.
For really short fighting time (like activating hard mode for xt) with bloodlust and haste potion, should i still use bladestorm or is normal gcd usage better?
I drop a Shattering Throw as Bloodlust is called. I will Bladestorm if my rage is generally low or stick with GCD if I have a decent amount generating.
For really short fighting time (like activating hard mode for xt) with bloodlust and haste potion, should i still use bladestorm or is normal gcd usage better?
We just did XT hard mode last night. My rotation was:
Heart starts floating down.
Target
Shattering Throw (We did not heroism)
Accelerators
Haste Pot
Rend
Sunder/HS (x5)
OP/HS
MS/HS
Execute
Execute
OP
Execute
Heroic Throw
I accounted for 8k to 12,500 DPS during the heart phase across the attempts.
However, when I attempted:
Heart starts floating down.
Target
Shattering Throw (We did not heroism)
Accelerators
Haste Pot
Sunder/HS (x5)
Bladestorm (full 6s)
Execute
Execute
Heroic Throw
I only accounted for 5k to 8k DPS, and downing the heart was much closer to not happening, or didn't happen.
With that much haste/ARP/damage multiplier, you're swimming in rage, and able to queue HS with everything. Slam + HS, OP + HS, or MS + HS all hit harder than Bladestorm. The main perk to Bladestorm is that it goes by seconds, instead of second.5's (GCDs), however Heroic Strike does not queue GCD, and if you're able to keep it up for every melee swing, and melee swings are 30 - 45% faster, then the advantage of Bladestorm is lost.
So, correct me if i'm wrong here, but with 51% ArP (not including battlestance) and grim toll, its not worth it to gem ArP anymore? It seems it would be safe to say that 41% arp + the 10% from bstance + a grimtoll proc is sufficient enough if the cap is truly in place, and thus going back to gemming STR is going to once again be superior. Anyone else coming up with similar results to this? I don't want to go regem back full STR only to realize ArP isnt capped yet.
Wrong. Assuming you have Improved Slam (which as Arms you should) you will get swings even if you spam Slam continuously as each Slam pauses swing for 0.5s and you cannot use Slam more often than once per 1.5s.
Yes you're right I completely overlooked the GCD and slam being only 0.5s cast. My mistake!
So, correct me if i'm wrong here, but with 51% ArP (not including battlestance) and grim toll, its not worth it to gem ArP anymore? It seems it would be safe to say that 41% arp + the 10% from bstance + a grimtoll proc is sufficient enough if the cap is truly in place, and thus going back to gemming STR is going to once again be superior. Anyone else coming up with similar results to this? I don't want to go regem back full STR only to realize ArP isnt capped yet.
To answer this question -- Again -- The cap is 100% ArP. Battle Stance + Gear + Spec + Procs = 100% or less. Meaning, you have 61%/100% + 50% proc. Meaning if you gem ArP, you'll see a gain when Grim Toll is NOT procced, but will see no gain when Grim Toll has procced.
To answer this question -- Again -- The cap is 100% ArP. Battle Stance + Gear + Spec + Procs = 100% or less. Meaning, you have 61%/100% + 50% proc. Meaning if you gem ArP, you'll see a gain when Grim Toll is NOT procced, but will see no gain when Grim Toll has procced.
It is capped.
I understand that, but what I am wondering is it still ideal to gem armor penetration, or does it become less SEP because of the cap when trinket procs are active? Or would I be better off gemming strength or dropping my grim toll and use for example mirror or something else because the proc seems mediocre right now.
Also, could someone explain how the calculation of armor pen works? How do I figure out how much armor pen I will have assuming the boss is sundered, ff is up, and battle stance calculations are worked in? Right now I have 657 armor pen rating, which is 53.34% and I know it isn't addative so I don't understand how to figure out how much armor pen I have on a fully debuffed boss, incluiding everything.
Switching from STR gems to ArP gems with my current gear i've found i'm able to get an extra 500dps per boss over my normal fury build while in arms stance. I would say that at low ArP gear, geming for ArP might be better.
I understand that, but what I am wondering is it still ideal to gem armor penetration, or does it become less SEP because of the cap when trinket procs are active? Or would I be better off gemming strength or dropping my grim toll and use for example mirror or something else because the proc seems mediocre right now.
No, it's the trinket that lose value and not the whole ArP. If you want to gear around a trinket then go for it but it's not the best choice nor what blizzard wanted from warriors (hence the arp cap).
Also, could someone explain how the calculation of armor pen works? How do I figure out how much armor pen I will have assuming the boss is sundered, ff is up, and battle stance calculations are worked in? Right now I have 657 armor pen rating, which is 53.34% and I know it isn't addative so I don't understand how to figure out how much armor pen I have on a fully debuffed boss, incluiding everything.
Thanks for the help.
If you have 53.34% from gear you have to add 10% from Battlestance.
Sunder and ff don't stack additively with gear, so regardless of them you can have and fully use 100% arp from gear.
There are a lot of posts about how it works either in this thread some page ago, in fury thread, in official 3.1 discussion thread and in warrior dps spreadsheet thread.
Switching from STR gems to ArP gems with my current gear i've found i'm able to get an extra 500dps per boss over my normal fury build while in arms stance. I would say that at low ArP gear, geming for ArP might be better.
ArP is stronger the more you have, so your sentence is meaningless.
Switching from STR gems to ArP gems with my current gear i've found i'm able to get an extra 500dps per boss over my normal fury build while in arms stance. I would say that at low ArP gear, geming for ArP might be better.
No.No.
Just no.
Sheet shows your ArP SEP at 0.89,infact showing a decline in dps. I suspect you may have "better" dps due to rage generation changes from gemming to ArP on your pieces. Take 2-3 days when regemming to get into the swing of it before knocking Str ( proven to give better dps returns at your gear level )
I'm not great with the maths and theorycrafting but appreciate the work a lot of people here put into this. I think I've run into a question worthy of this.
I'd like to not gem for expertise with the gear I have. I thought about swapping points out of Imp Execute into Weapon Mastery and gemming strength. not sure exactly how much I would lose. Landsoul's spreadsheet shows an increase but it's also putting my expertise at 22. In a perfect world always being behind every mob I'd not worry but human error makes this harder. I'm basically asking if the gemming for expertise and keeping Imp Execute is better or swapping to Weapon Mastery and getting the strength benefit logically puts me in a better place. Or another scenario I've overlooked exists.
I'm not great with the maths and theorycrafting but appreciate the work a lot of people here put into this. I think I've run into a question worthy of this.
I'd like to not gem for expertise with the gear I have. I thought about swapping points out of Imp Execute into Weapon Mastery and gemming strength. not sure exactly how much I would lose. Landsoul's spreadsheet shows an increase but it's also putting my expertise at 22. In a perfect world always being behind every mob I'd not worry but human error makes this harder. I'm basically asking if the gemming for expertise and keeping Imp Execute is better or swapping to Weapon Mastery and getting the strength benefit logically puts me in a better place. Or another scenario I've overlooked exists.
I would have to say it depends.
If you have another warrior or a feral druid with 100% attendance,you can drop trauma instead as it wont cost you any dps.On the other hand,if you dont,with 22 expertise you should be on 5.50% dodge negation,so only one point from imp. execute to Weapon mastery should do the trick.
I'm not great with the maths and theorycrafting but appreciate the work a lot of people here put into this. I think I've run into a question worthy of this.
I'd like to not gem for expertise with the gear I have. I thought about swapping points out of Imp Execute into Weapon Mastery and gemming strength. not sure exactly how much I would lose. Landsoul's spreadsheet shows an increase but it's also putting my expertise at 22. In a perfect world always being behind every mob I'd not worry but human error makes this harder. I'm basically asking if the gemming for expertise and keeping Imp Execute is better or swapping to Weapon Mastery and getting the strength benefit logically puts me in a better place. Or another scenario I've overlooked exists.
Instead of worrying about gemming for expertise, I would think about equipment upgrades that you can benefit from, currently your sitting with 4 pieces of pvp gear. You could think about planning to dump your gloves for [Valorous Dreadnaught Gauntlets], or your legs with [Conqueror's Siegebreaker Legplates] or [Valorous Siegebreaker Legplates]. These are just suggestions on a path to take that doesnt result in the waste of a socket/gem.
If you have another warrior or a feral druid with 100% attendance,you can drop trauma instead as it wont cost you any dps.
A feral druid being around isn't reason to drop trauma, the opposite in fact - your actually costing the feral DPS (more then you'd gain by taking imp. execute) if you do so as they have to keep up the mangle de-buff.
05/20/09, 5:14 PM
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