The removal of the cool down is not even a possibility. The original implementation of the cool down was to prevent a double proc from a white attack and a special landing one second, providing 4 attacks at the same time. In addition, all those attacks could crit. This was a PvP fix with the unfortunate side effect of a PvE nerf.
The solution needs to be a redesign of sword spec. That part is easy to say. Actually design of a revamped talent is another trial in and of itself.
Or we could just scrap wepon specs all together and give +5%crit/+5% crit damage and be done with it.
Whats funny if you take a look at ulduar wepons you can see swords are bettter itemized to offset sword spec weaknes.
I've put together what I consider my BIS set for arms and It's coming out (with human reaction time moved from 220 to 250 and latency set at 300) to 6102dps.
I'm wondering if anyone has been able to come up with a better set and if so what it is?
(Blacksmith and Jewelcrafter with an Agil enchant on the cloak and icewalker on the boots. All other enchants are standard.)
I've put together what I consider my BIS set for arms and It's coming out (with human reaction time moved from 220 to 250 and latency set at 300) to 6102dps.
I'm wondering if anyone has been able to come up with a better set and if so what it is?
(Blacksmith and Jewelcrafter with an Agil enchant on the cloak and icewalker on the boots. All other enchants are standard.)
With the slight buff arms was given just in the latest patch 3.1.3 (Haste increased from a talent from 6% to 10%:
Overall this is a 4% increase in haste...is it too simplistic to think that my dps will be increased by 4% overall now?
A lot simplistic.
First you were at 106% you now go to 110%. It's a 3.77% haste increase.
The good news is that all your haste from gear and buffs will be 3.77% better.
It anyway affects only white damage+heroic strike that acocunts for about 20-25% of our damage.
It is around 0.8% increase in total damage due to melee+hs, you'll also have something like 1 sd proc every 5-6 minutes
It will be a slight boost in execute phase aswell if you were spamming exe previously.
I don't rate it more than 1% damage increase after buffs.
Rage generation is influenced aswell.
It's 1 more swing every 26-27 hits. Since you tend to use your accumulated rage in few gcds (and since slam usage negate part of the haste bonus due to its static cast time) you aren't really able to notice it.
An example with 10% gear haste and 3.4s weapon, raidbuffed with 20% haste would bring the swingtime to 2.34s while it was 2.43s. This gives one more hit at 63.18s so giving 0.94~ hits per minute.
With an avg rage per hit of 30 (averaging glancing, crits and hits) if you only slam once every 10 seconds you'll have 3 more seconds delay over 63.18.
With 6 slam in a minute: 27*30 rage vs 26*30 rage in 66.18s that is 0.91~ hits per minute.
More slams, less benefits from haste.
Last edited by hellord : 06/03/09 at 11:29 AM.
Reason: typo
Is this because the requirements are more easily met under current gemming and itemization? I was under the impression that the dps gain from 21 Criical strike rating was greater than that of 21 agility.
21 Critical Strike Rating grants 0.5% Critical Strike Chance
21 Agility grants 0.33% Critical Strike Chance and 42 armor value which in turn translates to ~1 AP with AttT (iirc) and has minor raid buff scaling.
OK. I believe I'm posting in the right place. This is my first post, though I have been following these forums pretty religiously. Here's the deal. On single target boss fights, fully buffed I pull around 4700-5000 dps. Equally geared players of other classes are pulling MUCH more. I can only assume that my rotation is off somehow. I have done much research and have been doing what works for me so far, but I am looking for a definitive guide to an Arms "rotation" or priority. I have been keeping MS on cooldown. Prio execute over OP. And slamming when there are no procs and MS is down. To the best of my knowledge I am not missing any procs. (Or very few at least) Secondarily, it seems that I may have too much ArP, as I heard that 50% ArP with a GT or MR trinket is currently the aim. Any advice would be welcome and thanks for taking the time to review this.
Is this because the requirements are more easily met under current gemming and itemization? I was under the impression that the dps gain from 21 Criical strike rating was greater than that of 21 agility.
21 Critical Strike Rating grants 0.5% Critical Strike Chance
21 Agility grants 0.33% Critical Strike Chance and 42 armor value which in turn translates to ~1 AP with AttT (iirc) and has minor raid buff scaling.
In Landsoul's sheet, swapping from the Crit meta to the Agility meta for me is only a loss of 4.4 DPS. Given that the loss of going from a blue gem to yellow gem is around 10 DPS in the sheet, it does seem like it would make sense to swap them if you aren't a Jewelcrafter. (After the next patch, this would apply to JC's as well.)
It would be worth even more if you were in a situation where you would swap a blue (purple) for a red gem, as well.
Is this because the requirements are more easily met under current gemming and itemization?
Yes. But the DPS loss is marginal with 2x 6 stats socket bonusses (for example, T8 chest + legs). It's basically +12 stamina vs. some dodge and 5 dps. [Chaotic Skyflare Diamond] will be about equal when you got a item with +8 stats bonus, such as [Plated Leggings of Ruination] paired with T8 chest.
In Landsoul's sheet, swapping from the Crit meta to the Agility meta for me is only a loss of 4.4 DPS. Given that the loss of going from a blue gem to yellow gem is around 10 DPS in the sheet, it does seem like it would make sense to swap them if you aren't a Jewelcrafter. (After the next patch, this would apply to JC's as well.)
It would be worth even more if you were in a situation where you would swap a blue (purple) for a red gem, as well.
Personally i am a Jewelcrafter and i do use the [ZZOLD Design: Chaotic Skyflare Diamond]. I was just curious as to why so many are using the Agility cut. Like you said it seems that the DPS loss from filling the meta's requirements or 1 of each is much greater than that of 2 Blue.
In preparation for the Jewelcrafting nerf i plan on replacing 2 of my red gems for either [Item not found!] or [Sovereign Twilight Opal] depending on where i stand in ArPen Rating.
In preparation for the Jewelcrafting nerf i plan on replacing 2 of my red gems for either [Puissant Twilight Opal] or [Sovereign Twilight Opal] depending on where i stand in ArPen Rating.
Sarcasm much? Heh. I think ill stick to the Sovereign Twilight Opal.
One more question while im here. When calculating Armor Penetration should i be aiming fro 620 rating from gear (Using Grim Toll currently) before beginning to stack Strength and Crit again? That way i am at 51% Rating from gear and 49% from the Grim Toll effect and no points are wasted.
Sarcasm much? Heh. I think ill stick to the Sovereign Twilight Opal.
One more question while im here. When calculating Armor Penetration should i be aiming fro 620 rating from gear (Using Grim Toll currently) before beginning to stack Strength and Crit again? That way i am at 51% Rating from gear and 49% from the Grim Toll effect and no points are wasted.
I don't think he was being sarcastic.
+6 to all stats has a SEP in Landsoul's sheet of 10.036 for me, compared to 8 from a Sovereign Twilight Opal.
One more question while im here. When calculating Armor Penetration should i be aiming fro 620 rating from gear (Using Grim Toll currently) before beginning to stack Strength and Crit again? That way i am at 51% Rating from gear and 49% from the Grim Toll effect and no points are wasted.
Don't forget to account in the 10% from battle stance and/or the 15% from mace spec. So for axe arms, you only need 41% before [Grim Toll].
OK. So I hope I'm not out of line for double-posting my question. But in simplified form: What is the definitive rotation for high-end Arms DPS. I have been unable to lockdown exactly what the community consesus is. Again, I have been doing MS on cooldown, Exe before OP, and slam when no procs and MS is on cooldown. Is this correct? Should I ever Heroic strike? Why do I seem to have so few opportunities for slam? Someone please explain it to me or link me to somewhere I can review this.
OK. So I hope I'm not out of line for double-posting my question. But in simplified form: What is the definitive rotation for high-end Arms DPS. I have been unable to lockdown exactly what the community consesus is. Again, I have been doing MS on cooldown, Exe before OP, and slam when no procs and MS is on cooldown. Is this correct? Should I ever Heroic strike? Why do I seem to have so few opportunities for slam? Someone please explain it to me or link me to somewhere I can review this.
Read all the posts in this thread since 3.1 came out to find the answer to your question.
Don't forget to account in the 10% from battle stance and/or the 15% from mace spec. So for axe arms, you only need 41% before [Grim Toll].
Yes i was accounting for this but thank you for clarifying.
Originally Posted by Jayde
I don't think he was being sarcastic.
+6 to all stats has a SEP in Landsoul's sheet of 10.036 for me, compared to 8 from a Sovereign Twilight Opal.
Now this has me very curious. I will definatly have to look into this one.
Quick notes
+6 Str ---> +12 AP
+6 Agi ---> + 0.096 Critical
+6 Sta ---> 6 Stamina (Duh)
+6 Int ---> Smarter?
+6 Spi ---> Cheerleader Spec?
I guess i can see where the slight gain in Agility would be a bit more advantageous than the extra stamina.
I'm having some trouble using Landsoul's Spreadsheet atm. It seems that changing the gear in the sheet is not being reflected in the DPS calculation and i am also not able to calculate my SEP values. It may be the computer's settings that i am using currently. I dont usually open it on this (work computer ) Anyone have some advice as to how to fix this issue?
Having seen the buffs today I cant really see Arms staying as a competitive PvE spec for very long.
The problem being that they seem incapable of buffing it properly to compete in PvE due to the PvP ramifications. Looking at the haste buff today I went to Landsouls spreadsheet and it gave me something like a 60 DPS buff, so just over 1%. On the fights in Ulduar where we are behind its a good few hundred DPS.
Also the Tier set bonus does Arms no favours. Landsouls spreadsheet once again gave me a 16 DPS increase from 2 peice T8 bonus...Fury on the other hand gains 80 or so DPS. The margin between what the two specs gains is simply too large. Once Fury gets fixed properly I think Arms is just going to fall too far behind and Blizzard wont save it because of Arena.
Im not sure how to fix it...More damge would be the simple answer, but I cant see that happening.
Having seen the buffs today I cant really see Arms staying as a competitive PvE spec for very long.
...
Im not sure how to fix it...More damge would be the simple answer, but I cant see that happening.
So any change that is made to arms need to be something that is effective in boosting DPS (not haste for sure), while not causing a problem in PvP. One possibility could be changing glyphs around that make them good for PvE, but not PvP. Make mortal strike do +25% damage, but remove the healing debuff. Or cause execute to cause an additional bleed DOT/debuff. Something along those lines doesn't seem like it would help in PvP, but could help PvE.
Another thing I've thought about is a talent that reduces the GC for an arms build. The DPS is so limited by it GC it just seem awkward. Is there any other class with a build that is limited in DPS by GC? Of course I could see that being incredibly hard to balance, and am not expecting something that drastic to happen.
Fore anybody interested, here is a combat parse of a deconstructor attempt after patch 3.1.3. We did not down him on this attempt, the fight lasted about 5 minutes.
Fore anybody interested, here is a combat parse of a deconstructor attempt after patch 3.1.3. We did not down him on this attempt, the fight lasted about 5 minutes.
Man, only 13 dps difference, a .0026% increase. What's worse is that in the better parse, your heroism up-time is a greater percentage of the total fight time. Its arguable that the dps increase could be attributed to that factor alone, making the haste buff a wash in this particular example. That's not very encouraging.
Hey all, I'm currently trying to work out an arms spec that includes both Commanding Presence and Imp demo. I am the only DPS warrior in the raids and the prot warriors have Deep Wounds for the extra threat. This is the spec I am considering at the moment. The World of Warcraft Armory
I took points out of Imp Execute and AtT for the extra 5 points. I chose the 2/2 Booming voice so I would waste less GCDs on refreshing shouts and the larger range to easily hit the whole raid with Commanding shout. Should I throw those two in AtT instead or would anyone suggest different talents to take some points from? Thanks in advance for any ideas.
06/02/09, 6:55 AM
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