Avyrana

Hey guys,

just want to bring in an idea:

What about the SS-glyph? In case of having to much rage, just activate SS (in bossfights no use, of course) and benefit from the rage-delay.
-> You instantly lose 30 rage but will get it back continously in the following 12 Secs.

Of course you cant use this always due to the CD of SS, but it might help in some situation. At least there will be no need to use HS for ragedumping.

I also dont understand, why HS is used as an arms warrior, since it overwrites the white hit -> no rage income (or 10, if glyph is equipped and HS crits)

Another point:
Execute has the best dmg/rage value in LOW amounts of rage.
Execute with 20 rage is better than Execute with 40 rage.

To my mind the aim shoud be to acitivate as much styles as possible within the 6 secs, when SD is up, in order to lose as less rage as possible.

Just my 2 cents

 

Whistles

Dropping the MS/Execute/Rend glyph to try and smooth out your rage generation would be a huge loss. Especially when Arms can always Slam to deal with rage spikes and no warrior spec is really hurting for rage at the moment.

 

Mephs

I hate to say but after the next patch (if the Warrior changes stay in) there will be no point going Arms unless your raid had no feral druid. Fury DPS is going to completely blow us out of the water, to the point BF is going contribute less than just having more personal DPS. I am usually able to keep up with Fury in personal DPS, but now they get Bloodsurge procs off of their main 3 attacks (BT, WW, HS), not just BT, and need 5% less hit to be capped for specials.

 

7Sam

Warrior

* Bloodthirst: Charges have been decreased to 3, but the effect has been raised to 1% per charge.
* Fury: Bloodsurge: Now has a chance to trigger from any hit with Heroic Strike, Bloodthirst, or Whirlwind.
* Fury:Titan's Grip: The hit chance penalty has been removed.


.-source-.

 

Mephs

Yeah it was updated not long after the first announcement. It won't be that bad, in that case, and you still have a lot to gain from Trauma/BF to make Arms still worthwhile in raids.

 

Ronen

I am trying to prepare for raiding as MS in these 10 and 25 mans. But i am trying to figure out what my priority in gear and gemming is I.E. Haste Armor Penetration Strength Expertise etc....

Where would i go Priority wise?

 

mihn

Cap hit, get around 40% crit buffed, then unstack AP if I get it right

 

Healranktwo

That's me =P

I don't feel like I was being sloppy. I don't do random heroic strikes, even if i'm rage capped. I don't feel like I had an abnormal crit rate on that parse either, and I used all my taste for blood procs except one. 14 whirlwinds are 2 bladestorms, 7 hit each, it just counts them as whirlwind for w/e reason.

The reason behind me using HS is simply cause of SD. I don't have math to back it up, but I basically queue HS whenever i'm about to SD, so if I do get a swing off, it's a HS, not a white hit. Why? HS means 1) it isn't a white hit that might glance 2) crits have impale 3) two attacks instead of one to proc deep wounds, and also double the chance to crit. I think that justifies the cost of using 12 rage as opposed to wasting it on SD. Of course, I don't use it all the time, but basically I queue up HS, and if I happen to swing before I hit SD, it's a HS, not a white hit. You will also never perform a HS after SD, because you will not have the rage to do it, and even with the 4 piece t7 bonus, you need to extremely unlucky to get a proc in the time after SD -> swing.

My gear is not very impressive either, so I do feel I can do a lot better. I have gotten a ton of upgrades from 10 mans since then. While my time to kill him is extremely fast, I was sticking around 4600 before executes for the most part, and never was in danger of dropping.

I do think the biggest key to arms DPS is weaving as many gcds as you can inbetween your swing/SD. I don't feel using SD straight away is the best way to go, but holding it too long just means you waste another SD if it procs during that timeframe.

 

Adyx

Ye, and the fact that you had rogues using the crit exploit made things a little easier for you

p.s. Are people actually using these WWS logs as baseline DPS checks for themselves? I'm going through so many, of people maintaining 5k dps on Patch, only to find out, they do 50/60% crits

 

Healranktwo

We didn't have rogues using the HAT spec on that parse I did. It was just a stacked raid. They used it this week but I was not in. I'm not a 25 man raider in the guild, so I probably won't be able to do more parses =(

 

Adyx

nvm!

 

• LodeRunner

Honor Among Thieves builds don't offer any crit bonus. The Master Poisoner bug was hotfixed. Unless the parse is old enough to fall under the days when MP Rogue stacking worked I don't see a problem. None of his other crit rates were outlandish, just Execute. That much can be chalked up to a fluke/luck.


Pity. I looked at a different week and the resident Fury Warrior was performing just as poorly as the original linked parse. It looks like they could use someone like you.

 

Yabanjin

I re-gemmed for crit and got new gear, went from 37.02% (~46% buffed) to 39.26% (49.xx% buffed) and I did notice a difference rage wise. There's crit streaks where I just had tons of rage and could get way more MS in my rotation then before. Everything combined resulted in more DPS I think. Gotta wait for reset to do a full Naxx with those changes and check WWS parse.

Bloodsurge changed to Your Heroic Strike, Bloodthirst, and Whirlwind hits have a 7/13/20% chance of making your next Slam instant for 5 sec. (Old - 33/66/100% and only affected Bloodthirst critical hits)

Yeah, it doesn't seem that huge of a buff now and actually, when I was fury I remember slam doing a ridiculous 3-5% of our damage, it needed to be buffed.

 

Ronen

So Obtain cap Hit which is 8% Then Stack Crit till 40% then Strength?

Hit Cap 8%<Crit 40%<Strength
?

Where would expertise and Armor Penetration Come in....I'm trying to find a Model that Voxx used Pre-WOTLK to emphasize where people should be working to obtain Proper gearing?

I would love to show an example of how he used it but i cannot obtain the post.

 

Plea

Where does the idea of stacking crit then ap come from? If anything, crit should be inferior to str until some ap and better after that level. This was actually true for all dps classes in tbc, including shadow priests. What am I missing here? Is crit also subject to diminishing returns now?

 

Hamburglar

To Ronen : Hit Cap 8%<Crit 40%<Strength - Expertise cap (6.5%), then start stacking strength. I havent seen anyone really updating with any groundbreaking info about armorpenetration in this thread yet, though I see alot of armorpen on the t7.5 gear. Hopefully we can get a discussion going.

To Plea : If you look a few posts up or look up Mephs posts about the crit, it`s a general theory that 40% crit unbuffed will give us aprox 50% raidbuffed thus boosting our rage-generation so much that we`re actually able to keep ms up without starving ourselves for SD.

On a sidenote, I`m waiting for our jc to rep up with hodir so I can get cheapish crit-gems. Going to spec arms and try out some stuff. If anyone with decent gear could check out a cycle with 1.Rend 2. SD 3.Overpower 4. Slam that would be great. With the lack of a proper spreadsheet, I`m wondering if MS is in fact worth it vs 1.5ish slams as a tradeoff. It means spamming slam alot more, and basically ignore MS because of the high rage-cost. I could be WAY off, and I acknowledge that, but at the moment I dont really feel we have alot to go by, so whatever testing we can get done could help.

 

Tankietka

MS is definitely good to use if you have plenty of rage. In other words, you should plan after each swing what you can use to fill all GCDs before next swing. If you have enough rage to use MS on one of them - good for you. If you have less, then it's Slam time :-).

 

hellord

Armor penetration was incredibly good in late tbc, but actually is not that great.
One of the reasons is the rating system that won't let you reach 100% penetration (like it was for 6.2k armor bosses in tbc before patch 3.0).
Another reason is that our dps is for about 1/3 made of bleeds thus ignoring completely armor.
Compared to other stats gets straight increases (Strenght is multiplied by 1.04, haste is multiplied 1.06) and doesnt change much the rage generation like hit/crit/expertise do.

I just don't think it's worth gemming for ArP, cause current itemization doesnt give much if not at a substantial cost of other stats.
It may become more worth at a latter stage of gear where AP improvements becomes less significant (then % modifiers may give better results than pure AP).

The only thing I'm still concerned with (but I have to redo some spreadsheet work and test it) is Executioner enchant. It's still 840 flat value and if it won't change it is probably a good enchant even at 80.
Considering current content's bosses have 13k armor and are left with 7.8k after debuffs, an 840 value is comparable to ~11% ArP.
Anyway if, as I suspect, is calculated before your gear will make your ArP less efficient. Have to do more tests for this before jumping to a conclusion, but I'm gonna give it a shot soon.

ArP Whore

 

Hyperionn

Executioner will be changed to :

Enchanting

Enchant Weapon - Executioner now permanently enchant a melee weapon to occasionally grant you 120 armor penetration rating. (Old - occasionally ignore 840 of your enemy's armor.)

 

Ronen

So also in a sense the Arms Mace Spec will change as well...So maybe ArP may be an essential in the later raiding of Wotlk. We shall see...

But as of now For a MS Warrior Hit cap Crit and Str With a non-gemming essential of Expertise is a must for Arms Warriors...

 

Ariakis_Uther

I'm confused about the run I went on last night. I had 263 hit rating which was showing up as 8.02% which I had believed was hit cap. But i'm seeing close to 6% miss on most abilities from the run last night. Can someone point out what I'm missing?

WWS from last night
Armory Profile

Nevermind its a lack of expertise, all of the missed % was coming from parry/dodge.. Sorry for the post.

 

Gorrog666

Talking about ArP does anyone know how Blizzard calculates Arp now? Is Sunder Armor and FF just added as a percentage or is it added as a value? 13083-3925(SA)-1260(FF)=7898(this would be a reduction of 39.63 if I'm not wrong). In BC this was absolutely irrelevant since we didn't have ArP Rating. Now with ArP Rating comming along I think ArP got a huge blow since it is counted on top of Sunder Armor and FF, or at least I believe that, I can't really confirm it at this point but it would be interesting to find out. If ArP is multiplied onto Boss Armor after SA and FF then ArP is inferior to Str, if Blizzard calculates Sunder and FF in an additive fashion then ArP could be superior to Str. I only did calculations on the first case so if your ArP applies only on the 7898 Armor that remain after Sunder and FF there is absolutly no point in socketing ArP. The question then remains why Blizzard introduced new ArP stones? It could be possible though that Blizzard converted the armor reduction from Sunder Armor and FF into a % which is simply added to your ArP from gear which would make it scale a little better. But, to be quite honest I don't believe this is the case since Sunder Armor retained a flat armor reduction.

 

Zaelen

Is there any future to dual wield Arms ala Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft +2 ?

Your main damage sources will be Melee, Execute and Deep Wounds.

How is offhand damage being handled with regards to Deep Wounds?

 

Healranktwo

While I understand why high crit is important for sustaining our DPS (Since it's the easy mode way to getting tons of rage at the expense of pure luck), I have decided to go the route of a mace spec arms war. I will see how it plays out next week when I do some raids. I got into a 25 man pug and actually managed to get lucky enough to pick up a few upgrades, so i'm definately sticking with mace spec to see if it's bad as everyone says it is. The mace itself gives me a whopping 10 expertise by itself (my racial + the stats on it), making my gearing options a lot better since expertise is something I don't have to worry about now.

Also, betrayer of humanity dropped, and I passed on it! HAH!

 

Hamburglar

Try to get some wws, Healranktwo. That could give us something proper to compare against fury performance.
I dont start to raid until 4th of jan 09, but Ive used the last days leveling JC, so I think I can get my crit up to a decent level and check out arms for that naxx25-raid. I guess its being-cced-time until then (arena...god I hate druids).