• Kalroth

I'm not sure where you get 15232/2 from, it's (armor + C)/3, see Ghostcrawlers post on ArPen.
Additionally see the ArPen calculator I made: Simple ArPen calculator.

With Sunder Armor and Faerie Fire
Boss armor with 5x Sunder Armor and Faerie Fire: 8088.68
Effective armor: (8088.68 + 15232.5)/3 = 7773.73

50% ArPen from player: 8088.68 - (7773.73-(7773.73*0.5)) = 4201.82
Damage increase from 5x Sunder Armor, Faerie Fire and 50% ArPen on player:
((10643-4201.82)/(4201.82+15232.5))*100 = 33.14%

100% ArPen from player: 8088.68 - (7773.56-(7773.56*0.0)) = 315.12
Damage increase from 5x Sunder Armor, Faerie Fire and 100% ArPen on player:
((10643-315.12)/(315.12+15232.5))*100 = 66.43%

Without Sunder Armor and Faerie Fire
Boss armor: 10643
Effective armor: (10643 + 15232.5)/3 = 8625.17

50% ArPen from player: 10643 - (8625.17-(8625.17*0.5)) = 6330.42
Damage increase from 50% ArPen on player:
((10643-6330.42)/(6330.42+15232.5))*100 = 20.00%

100% ArPen from player: 10643-(8625.17-(8625.17*0.0)) = 2017.83
Damage increase from 100% ArPen on player:
((10643-2017.83)/(2017.83+15232.5))*100 = 50.00%

The 29.75% is because GT isn't exactly 50% ArPen, it's only 49.68% ArPen.

 

Chenglong

anyone here reached 7k dps at xt as arms ?? just wanted to ask
and is it true that fury can do more dps at this fight?

 

Zeiten

I've been at 7.4k at XT nonhardmode as fury, tho I cannot say what spec is better for this fight.

 

Systema Sephirothicum

7.8k last week(arms),top was another arms warr with 8.3k and a rogue with 8.1k.I dont have a WWS report on that atm,so, you don't have to take my words as real , it's up to you realy.
It is a fact that fury outscales arms in BiS gear,but anytime before that I doubt numbers will be too high for fury.
Nonetheless,skill and raid setup are far too important for measuring dps on non-gimmick fights,but this is not the case and to be honest I wonder why such an interest in a fight like XT.

I want to have a child and use it as a pulling tool in dungeons.
It's aggro range is huuuuuuuuuuuge!

 

hellord

c/2 is the point where (armor+c) == (armor+c)/3 when c = 15232.5.
Debuffs don't change the arp contribution to damage done at any level of arp.

DR with no debuffs is 41.1316%, thus 58.8684% damage done.
DR with sunder and FF is 34.6847%, thus 65.3153% damage done.

@10643 armor with 50% arp
(10643-8625.16*0.5)/(10643-8625.15*0.5+15232.5) = 29.3579% = damage done 70.6421%
Damage increase = 70.6421/58.8684 = 20%.
@8089 armor with 50% arp
(8089-7773.83*0.5)/(8089-7773.83*0.5+15232.5) = 21.6217% = damage done 78.3783%
Damage increase = 78.3783/65.3153 = 20%.
Relative debuffs contribution = 78.3783/70.6421 = 10.9513%

@10643 armor with 100% arp
(10643-8625.17)/(10643-8625.17+15232.5) = 11.6974% = damage done 88.3026%
Damage increase = 88.3026/58.8684 = 50%.
@8089 armor with 100% arp
(8089-7773.83)/(8089-7773.83+15232.5) = 2.0271% = damage done 97.9729%
Damage increase = 97.9729/65.3153 = 50%.
Relative debuffs contribution = 97.9729/88.3026 = 10.9521%

I'm not sure I get your math btw. Bolded values are the armor left on target while I tought you meant it was the armor removed by x% arp from gear.
The formula in red is (armor-arp)/(arp+c) and I don't know what the result stands for even if it's similar to damage increase from 0% arp and 0 debuffs (similar but not exact).

Could you please tell me how did you arrive to that formula?

ArP Whore

 

suicuique

The cap on armor being subject to penetration mechanics as given by a blue post is denoted by
min (AC, (AC+C)/3)

If you look closely at this, you realize that this "weighting formula" gives AC as the result when AC < C/2, and is equal to (AC + C)/3 when AC > C/2.
AC = C/2 is a fix point of the min(...) decision.

As C = 15232 for lvl 80 players attacking mobs, the decisive point in the formula is 15232/2.

case 1) Above it, the damage increese is a function of ArP only and given by the expression of 3/(3-x).

case 1) Below 7616 debuffed armor, it is a function of two variables, namely AC and ArP.

It can be noted however that in this case the dmg increase function in case 2) is at all times lower than in case 1) for corresponding ArP values.

While your calculation examples were correct, I still cannot understand the 29.75% value for GT proc though.

In best case (just at soft cap) the dmg increase contribution of GT caps out at 25%.

 

pizz

Just wondering one thing about the ArP and Grim Toll/M. Runestone formulas. Kalroth and a few others here use a ArP proccing trinket and stacked all Str gems after the cap was implemented. Alot like Hellorc and even the mighty Ragebar still have all ArP gems and a ArP trinket. What is the simple answer to this? Was re-gemming back to Str too expensive or the DPS increase not much of a difference?
I like the idea of having 75% stactic ArP while BloodLusted over 49.xx% ArP and hopeing for a proc. Forgot who said it, so I cannot give credit where it is due there. My appollogies.

 

• Kalroth

Re-reading Ghostcrawlers post, I can see it has been edited since I last looked at it (my bad), so my C was based on a level 80 target in previous numbers.

8088.68 is the value is that the target got after Sunder Armor and Faerie Fire debuffs:
10643*0.95*0.8 = 8088.68

7773.73 is the amount of armor the player ArPen can affect, since it's lower than 8088.68 (this is the min() part):
(8088.68+15232.5)/3 = 7773.73

To apply 50% ArPen from the player, I simply do (7773.73*0.5) which is 3886.87. I subtract that from the effective armor (7773.73) which gives me 3886.87 again. Subtract 3886.87 from the debuffed armor value (8088.68) and I get 4201.82, which should be the final result.

The damage increase formula is:
(original armor - result_armor) / (result_armor + C modifier) * 100
(10643-4201.82) / (4201.82+15232.5) *100 = 33.14%
and it should show how much of a damage increase 5xSA, FF and 50% ArPen is, compared to no SA, FF or ArPen.

 

RolanNath

I have rage problems on Vezax in both specs. However Arms is a bit better, 300-500dps better and the rage problems are less problimatic. And yes HS is very risky on this fight, I found if I chanced it at below 80% at any time I would rage starve myself. I found I did better on the fight if I stuck to a pretty tight rotation with very few HS, and more slams. I would only use HS when I looked to be capping out on rage.

I personally think the no mana regen is messing with our rage calculation somehow, because its a very hard fight for me rage wise. Of course its probably just the fact that we get 0 damage on this fight. But the conspiracy nut in me likes to think otherwise.

 

matthewseidl

Might it be the 20% reduced melee swing speed? That should be reducing rage gen by 20%, although it would make slam relatively cheaper.

 

RolanNath

Completly forgot about that.

 

PsyWulf

Indeed that swing speed is a killer. Pretty much forced to become debuffbot and go zerker to interrupt if no others are avail to do it UNLESS icy talons/windfury is avail

Having our resto/ele shammy pop down windfury totem definitely helped the melee heavy group up their dps again on our last run

 

Watcherxx

Been reading a lot on these posts and working on my warrior accordingly. I'm the usual hit capped, expertise capped, and a bit over the ArP cap w/ Grim Toll, with 4 piece Conq. just to give an idea of my gear.
I look at some of the posts about how much an Arms warrior should be dishing out and find that I'm not really all that close. An example would be I might push 5k dps on XT, but sometimes fall around 4k instead.
I have the rotations down from reading these posts, talents, glyphs, everything that's talked about here throughout the forums, but one thing I thought I'd ask is (strictly applying to XT fight now) how does your guild handle the fight?
I'd assumed that at first I was just getting used to Arms again (having been fury) and my rotations weren't smooth or I'd prioritize the wrong things. I'm not so sure it's really me as much as it is how our guild handles the fight.
Each group handles a corner of adds, so while some nights I may be dps'ing the boss for most of the time, some nights I'm running around handling adds more often than not.

I know tactics or strats isn't the main topic here, and I'm not asking for any reason except to find out if it's still me and my rotations or even skills as an Arms warrior that's the problem, or maybe it's just the way our guild might handle the boss fights that doesn't allow me to see the numbers some people post. I apologize if the question isn't in the right section, though I think it is. Just trying to correct a problem if there is one with how I play

 

Anduryondon

After testing a little bit today i did constantly ~5,4k DPS. I did alot better with smart using of HS than yesterday with very few HS, even if i was sometimes without rage for my styles.
Still wondering if i can do a little bit more, but actually i dont see any chance for over 5,5k.

 

Chenglong

8.3k dps i cant trust ... how can u pull so much with just deathsbite as your weapon?

and i see u are not hitcapped

 

hellord

I just prefer to waste 6% arp during proc and have slightly more damage the 80% of the time. With STR gems the damage out of the proc is lower and I have to rely on GT.

When I regemmed for STR, especially in short fights where you sometimes have 3 sometimes 4 procs, my dps was too spiky between attempts, while with arp gems I saw less difference in my performances.
Probably when I'll get 3-4% more arp from gear I'll swap back to STR and possibly out of a trinket with arp proc.
I saw many attempts during heart phase on xt where my uptime was under 6-7% and in that case I was losing dps for a key point in the fight.
There are other examples where you can't align its proc with a key phase and I don't think it's safe to just "hope" it will.

Anyway lately I'm using fury spec and with this gear I'm just under the softcap with arp food

ArP Whore

 

Cortic

Just out of curiosity, how can I edit this macro posted on the previous page to check rage and cast Heroic Strike if greater than 90? Ive tried a few variants in WoW but cannot get it to work without errors.


#showtooltip Heroic Strike
/script if UnitPower("player",1)>90 then Cast("Heroic Strike") end




#showtooltip Execute
/script if (UnitHealth("target")/UnitHealthMax("target") < .2) and UnitPower("player",1)>40 then CancelUnitBuff("player","Sudden Death") end
/cast Execute(Rank 9)

 

brutalbovine

This functionality was removed long ago. A macro cannot cast a spell based on rage/energy/mana/health. The reason the other macro works is because the part of the macro that deals with rage cancels a buff, which is not a protected function. In other words, "if rage = x, cancel this buff" will work, but "if rage = x, cast this spell" will not.

EDIT: I fail at quotes.

 

Systema Sephirothicum

1% draenei hit and as I said,it wasnt me who did 8.3k,was another warrior in the guild.

EDIT:Keeping CD like pot/Bladestorm/hero/shattering throw for hearts helps a lot.Hope this helps on your questions =)
Also,note that XT is a gimmick fight due to the heart bonus damage,dps from having a good or bad RNG with crits/procs might differ a lot from usual sometimes from what I have seen.

I want to have a child and use it as a pulling tool in dungeons.
It's aggro range is huuuuuuuuuuuge!

 

RolanNath

I don't see how anyone could pull 8k with deathsbite, unless its a gimic fight. He may be talking about the Heart dps alone, as that buffs your dps a good bit. We usually have people pulling 12kish dps on that part of the fight.

 

Firath

Is the Greatness card still bis? I was looking into buying one since DMF is here

 

spongejordan123

According to the BiS chart on Landsoul's DPS Spreadsheet thread, yes.

 

Quizoth

I've tried to read this entire thread but it's long and "best practice" (for max dps) seems to change almost on a per patch basis.

So (and sorry if these have already been asked).

1. Should I gem for ArP over Strength? (Answer seems yes judging by the recent contents of this thread)

2. I use WWS to gather stats during our raids. When I look at my own stats I see a lot of "Swing (Physical)" - are these "white" hits? If so I dont really understand cos I try to use a "special" every GCD (Example: Wow Web Stats)


BTW my main is an Naxx 25 clearing Arms warrior (just about to do Ulduar 10)

 

KorinthSH

Incorrect. At least, not correct for everyone.

At my current gear level for instance, Mjolnir Runestone and Dark Matter are both better. However, DM:G is still 3rd best in slot and getting both those trinkets (especially Dark Matter) will be a while for most of us.

 

sens

This huge thread could really use an updated nutshell on page 1