In-Depth Arms DPS Discussion - Page 53

PsyWulf · 06/10/09, 12:55 PM

Originally Posted by sens

This huge thread could really use an updated nutshell on page 1

This ofcourse being a discussion thread

Hamerung · 06/10/09, 2:35 PM

Originally Posted by PsyWulf

This ofcourse being a discussion thread

Could somebody tell me if there is an up-to-date page with summary warrior information? Preferably with fury/prot info, too? E.g. talents, soft/hard stat caps, etc. The Think Tank only has arms and is woefully out of date, and there do not seem to be any other threads in this warrior sub-forum. I've found individual posts scattered around with some of the key data, but not all in one obvious place.

jnlc · 06/10/09, 3:20 PM

Originally Posted by Hamerung

Could somebody tell me if there is an up-to-date page with summary warrior information? Preferably with fury/prot info, too? E.g. talents, soft/hard stat caps, etc. The Think Tank only has arms and is woefully out of date, and there do not seem to be any other threads in this warrior sub-forum. I've found individual posts scattered around with some of the key data, but not all in one obvious place.

There's no summary threads for warriors. Someone knowledgeable should make an initial version and then revise it as necessary. On a side-note I've read this whole thread and saw no clear agreed upon priority rotation. What's your opinion on this one I got from this StrongArms addon?

#1 Keep rend up
#2 Overpower (if Taste for Blood is about to refresh)
#3 Execute (if Sudden Death is about to expire)
#4 Bladestorm (if Taste for Blood is NOT up, and rend has more than 6 seconds remaining)
#5 Mortal Strike
#6 Execute
#7 Overpower
#8 Slam at >40 rage

Bloodrage at low rage
Heroic Strike if >75 rage

I mostly agree with it from my own research but I'm not sure if 5 and 6 should be switched in case sudden death refreshes itself. I'm also not sure why you'd only Slam at >45 rage since Slam should be more damage/rage than MS.

Furrymaker · 06/10/09, 6:15 PM

I mostly agree with it from my own research but I'm not sure if 5 and 6 should be switched in case sudden death refreshes itself. I'm also not sure why you'd only Slam at >45 rage since Slam should be more damage/rage than MS.

You don't only slam at >45 rage, you slam any time everything else is unavailable as to utilize every single gcd. Slam is filler much like steady shot for hunters.

Marukh · 06/10/09, 10:14 PM

If I have enough rage, I try to:

Rend
MS
Slam x2
MS
Rend

but Taste For Blood and Sudden Death usually take priority over Slam

Occasionally when I'm not in B3RZ3RK3R MUST BE HIGH DPS NOTHING ELSE MATTERS mode, I'm paying more attention to proc timers than the flying numbers, and I like to do my MS>Slam>Slam>MS and handle the procs afterwards, given that I think I can do that rotation without my procs expiring.

• bartolimu · 06/11/09, 2:05 PM

Dear morons,

I just deleted seven consecutive posts from this thread because you fucking retarded chimpanzees can't figure out how to not reply to idiots. Knock it the fuck off or I'll close your whole goddamn forum for a week.

rainerx · 06/11/09, 11:08 PM

Anyone look into this mod?

PriorityQueue - Addons - Curse

Same guy that does the shaman mod ShockAndAwe.

It seems like it's unfinished thus far, especially for warriors, the only queue he has in the options if execute. Think it would be possible to use this mod with Arms warrior priorities?

Not sure how he would do a queue with this mod for us.

Rend
MS
Slam
Slam
OP

and executes when up and BS at good times.

Jayde · 06/12/09, 6:30 AM

I basically did something similar with PowerAuras Classic showing icons in a specified order on the screen and having various criteria in the background to control it.

I made a video a month or so ago for a couple other Arms Warriors in the guild, not sure how long the link will hold out, but I've found it quite helpful and the visibility of the icons being more central and obvious means I have to spend a whole lot less time staring at my hotbar and missing the fight.

Arms UI on Vimeo

Smokingwolf · 06/12/09, 8:57 AM

i just turned to arms (from prot/fury). I managed to get almost 6600 dps on xt last night. My gear is kinda shitty, my rotation was far from perfect and the number that high is mostly because the fight itself was very quick. i think i can do better damage if i spam hs more than 5 times and if my deep wounds would do more damage but over 8k dps is still mystery to me with arms

and yeah i had to run out once with the debuff and had to keep up SA.

World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

Jayde · 06/12/09, 9:55 AM

It does seem as if you're not using Heroic Strike quite enough, especially during heart phases.

Realistically, rage-capping when you deal inflated damage against the heart is extremely easy. Even chain-slamming on free GCDs often isn't enough to stave off getting rage-capped, so using HS to bleed off the spare rage is quite a large DPS increase.

Your Slam count also seems oddly low, so you should probably try to be more aggressive in using Slams, especially against the Heart when rage is almost infinite.

Looking at the log, it took upwards of 12-14 of the 30 seconds of the heart phases to get Sunder Armor stacked on the Heart, which is also a pretty massive DPS loss for melee DPS. I would highly recommend either having both Warriors help stack it quickly at the start before beginning DPS rather than waiting for free globals, or have a Rogue Expose on the Heart specifically. We have a Rogue Expose as it matches the duration of the heart phase and is quicker for everyone involved. (Warriors stack Sunders on XT-002 prior to the heart phases.)

I also notice you guys did not use Shattering Throw, which I'd suspect would increase your DPS as well as the DPS of others on heart phases.

From this week's XT-002 kill, both myself and the main DPS Warrior (I'm offspec for Arms) are around the 8k mark:
WoW Meter Online - Combatlog Replay in Engrish

Again, the main difference is in Slam and Heroic Strike usage. Carthan used Slam 29 times to your 12 and Heroic Strike 19 times to your 5. I was able to use Slam a lot more aggressively even despite my gear difference with Carthan which got me a bit closer to his DPS than normal, having used it 40 times with 27 Heroic Strikes.

Edit: Also of note, if melee stands on one leg/side of XT-002, those affectd by Light Bomb can run to the opposite side and still DPS the boss without hitting the melee on the other side. This means that melee should only have to stop DPSing if affected by Gravity Bomb. His hitbox is actually quite large.

Gorrt · 06/12/09, 12:53 PM

Originally Posted by Jayde

From this week's XT-002 kill, both myself and the main DPS Warrior (I'm offspec for Arms) are around the 8k mark:
WoW Meter Online - Combatlog Replay in Engrish

I've read almost every post of top threads in warrior mechanics and have yet to see anyone ask if dmg is at all inflated on EU server vs US servers. I've yet to see any warriors on US servers break 8k dps on XT or rogues near 10k dps on XT. Can anyone speak to this? I'm doing well to break 6k dps on the same boss with comparable gear which beats most warriors in pve dps on my server.

To add something pertinent to arms dps, there have been many posts on how to best itemize for ArmPen which all involve the use of a trinket with an ArmPen proc. But from a theoretical standpoint wouldn't it make more sense to shoot for a higher passive ArmPen value and replace ArmPen trinkets with others (ie - Greatness + Wrathstone which appear to have best itemization aside from ArMPen trinks)? The only possible reason not to go with this itemization strategy is if the warrior would suffer in overall balance due to lack of available gear currently in the game. I realize this could be solved by plugging and chugging in the spreadsheet, but I'm curious if anyone else has already tried it out. I foresee in the next content release warriors will move more in this direction (ie - 85% passive armPen with all other stats at soft cap and balanced).

Jayde · 06/12/09, 1:03 PM

Well, our Rogues and Druids are some of the top DPS on WMO's EU top-20 for XT-002 and a number of them are quite experienced players. Don't think there is anything different between EU and US servers as far as I know.

13 of the top 20 for XT-002 on WMO's Rogue listing are on US servers, so doubt that really has much to do with it. But our ferals are pretty experienced players and Rain landed in the top-20 XT-002 worldwide list.

So, don't think it's "typical" DPS to have them quite so high, but it all comes down to execution and strategy, really. For instance, our Rogues usually trick eachother on XT since obviously TPS is not needed for the MT.

Like I mentioned, part of it is making sure you have good uptime of critical buffs like Shattering Throw and armor debuffs in general, don't move more than needed for Light Bombs, and use Heroism at the correct times. (We generally use Heroism right away to get to the first heart phase quicker--as once that happens the fight is basically over. Using it during the heart phases is a bit of a waste as we'll just have to stop DPS to avoid triggering the hardmode if we are planning on getting on with our clear.) And, specifically for Warriors, making sure you keep in mind that rage is plentiful during heart phases.

In regard to the ArP, think that's a debate over on the spreadsheet thread as well.

Personally, I don't see the downside to relying on "chance on hit" procs. With the way they function with high proc chances and hidden cooldowns, they are pretty reliable and hardly have any variation in terms of average uptime from fight to fight. Given that 45s internal cooldowns are close to the duration of Heroism, it's almost always going to have a proper representation of uptime during critical Heroism phases and over the course of the fight in general.

If proc rates were as random as they used to be with flat percentages, I could see the argument, but Grim Toll/Runestone are pretty reliable as far as effects go.

Checking our Hodir hardmode attempts last night (including our 3:01 'accidental' kill at the end) Grim Toll pretty much had exactly the same consistant uptime on every attempt of similar length. (Which was pretty close to, or slightly higher than in Landsoul's sheet. Usually between 19-21%.) Additionally, the other DPS Warrior Carthan's Runestone uptime was basically identical to my Grim Toll uptime on every attempt. So, there isn't anything super-random about it.

levk · 06/12/09, 1:17 PM

Originally Posted by Gorrt

To add something pertinent to arms dps, there have been many posts on how to best itemize for ArmPen which all involve the use of a trinket with an ArmPen proc. But from a theoretical standpoint wouldn't it make more sense to shoot for a higher passive ArmPen value and replace ArmPen trinkets with others (ie - Greatness + Wrathstone which appear to have best itemization aside from ArMPen trinks)? The only possible reason not to go with this itemization strategy is if the warrior would suffer in overall balance due to lack of available gear currently in the game. I realize this could be solved by plugging and chugging in the spreadsheet, but I'm curious if anyone else has already tried it out. I foresee in the next content release warriors will move more in this direction (ie - 85% passive armPen with all other stats at soft cap and balanced).

What you're really trying to do is more damage so you plug in your available stuff in a spreadsheet and play it by the numbers; nobody is (or should be) married to their Grim Toll and the like. There's a lot of talk about the procs because they're massive and create large discontinuities, of course there will come a point at which you won't want to be using them because there is a hardcap at 100% arp, but that point is a ways out and as a matter of fact as I think about the state of the game now, they're probably at the peak of their effectiveness.

Further plate upgrades have to be packing more and more arp or plate will start sliding in favor of leather again. Which means people will start bumping against the softcap (100% arp with proc) more and more and at some point the spreadsheet will recommend dropping the trinket and regemming whatever str gems you have for arp. But like I said that point isn't now yet, even with the best of gear available you gem for arp to get to softcap.

Scorcher Darkly · 06/12/09, 1:37 PM

Originally Posted by Jayde

I basically did something similar with PowerAuras Classic showing icons in a specified order on the screen and having various criteria in the background to control it.

I made a video a month or so ago for a couple other Arms Warriors in the guild, not sure how long the link will hold out, but I've found it quite helpful and the visibility of the icons being more central and obvious means I have to spend a whole lot less time staring at my hotbar and missing the fight.

Arms UI on Vimeo

I really like your UI. I've been toying with mine lately trying to get it cleaner. I use power auras, but I'm interested to know more about how you controlled the ability queues. Specifically, what kind of logic did you use to get it to show the slam icon at the appropriate time for your rotation? I assume heroic strike is just a rage check, and bladestorm is just checking the cooldown, correct? All I have mine configured to show right now is rend, TfB and SD, but after seeing yours that's going to change.

Also, what mod displays the buff bars in the top left and the cast timer on slam? I'm not familiar with those.

Gorrt · 06/12/09, 2:53 PM

Originally Posted by Jayde

Well, our Rogues and Druids are some of the top DPS on WMO's EU top-20 for XT-002

So, don't think it's "typical" DPS to have them quite so high, but it all comes down to execution and strategy, really.

(We generally use Heroism right away to get to the first heart phase quicker--as once that happens the fight is basically over.)

After reading this and looking at your WWS, I think these points answer my question. Essentially your raid dps is way higher than mine and by using heroism at the beginning of the fight you are able to spend a larger % of the fight on heart mode than what I've ever seen which inflates your overall dps for the fight significantly. This is one fight where your personal dps is heavily affected by the raid's dps and not just whether you have the right buffs or gear. I've been trying to explain to my guild for a long time to use Heroism at the start for this reason but it really doesn't make sense unless overall raid dps is high enough to maintain 3 consecutive heart phases.

In regard to the ArP, think that's a debate over on the spreadsheet thread as well. If proc rates were as random as they used to be with flat percentages, I could see the argument, but Grim Toll/Runestone are pretty reliable as far as effects go.

So, there isn't anything super-random about it.

I wasn't speaking to how random it is, but moreso that if you have 50% passive ArmPen (for simplicity) and this trinket procs an added 50% ArmPen and it has a 20% uptime, then you have an effective 60% ArmPen rating (50 + .2*50). Levk hit it right on the head, but I'm still curious if anyone has experimented specifically with higher passive ArmPen vs procs from trinkets. Every patch that comes out seems to yield one method for yielding highest dps that become the accepted standard which I believe deters people from experimenting outside that dogma. Honestly it only seems like there are a handful of people on these forums that have that dedication and intellect to scientifically prove their hypotheses so I've asked these more experienced players first. I'll do some experimenting of my own and report back. Apologies if this discussion should belong in the spreadsheet thread, I'll move it over there if asked, but I do associate ArmPen most closely to this thread as I am speaking specifically to its effect on arms dps.

Hamerung · 06/12/09, 2:53 PM

I was trying to figure out why the priority queue is ordered the way it is, thinking that it was entirely a damage/GCD or damage/rage function, but finally realized it had to do with cooldown mechanics. Could I get confirmation that the following is true?

1) Overpower (on UA procs) has a 6 second window of opportunity because the internal cooldown starts on the proc, not on the swing. So as long as you use it within 6 seconds there's no dps loss.

2) Mortal Strike is on a strict cooldown, so you want to use it as soon as possible whenever it is available.

3) Execute procs have a low probability of occurring close together, but it's possible so better to use it sooner rather than later.

Thus, to avoid wasting specials the priority would be MS -> Execute -> Overpower -> Slam if nothing else to do with a GCD

As for Rend, technically it doesn't always have to be instantly refreshed: let's say at T=N rend expires on its last tick, proccing UA, and MS comes up at the same moment. If you MS at T=N, Overpower at T=N+1.5, then Rend at T=N+3, at N+6 Rend will tick and UA will proc again, just as if Rend had never expired. So rend's position in the priority queue sort of depends on whether it's the last tick that procs UA, or the next to last tick.

Is all of the above correct?

FrnZ · 06/12/09, 3:43 PM

Originally Posted by Jayde

From this week's XT-002 kill, both myself and the main DPS Warrior (I'm offspec for Arms) are around the 8k mark:
WoW Meter Online - Combatlog Replay in Engrish

Did you reach that dps spending points in incite and improved heroic strike?

Jayde · 06/12/09, 3:51 PM

Originally Posted by Scorcher Darkly

I really like your UI. I've been toying with mine lately trying to get it cleaner. I use power auras, but I'm interested to know more about how you controlled the ability queues. Specifically, what kind of logic did you use to get it to show the slam icon at the appropriate time for your rotation? I assume heroic strike is just a rage check, and bladestorm is just checking the cooldown, correct? All I have mine configured to show right now is rend, TfB and SD, but after seeing yours that's going to change.

Also, what mod displays the buff bars in the top left and the cast timer on slam? I'm not familiar with those.

For those interested, here are my Warrior PowerAura strings... a couple in there for S&B/Slam! but I didn't want to edit them out since I'm not sure how it would affect the numbered criteria references. Should be safe to delete them after it's all imported I think. They should be "Import"ed in the order they appear.

gcd:bofalse; soundfile:stRaidWarning; owntex:bofalse; b:nu1; anim1:nu1; duration:nu0; g:nu0.68235294117647; thresholdinvert:bofalse; ignoremaj:botrue; opt2:nu0; speed:nu1; stance:nu10; icon:stInterface\Icons\Ability_Warrior_SwordandBoard; size:nu1; torsion:nu1; multiids:st; stacksOperator:st=; realaura:nu1; mine:botrue; optunitn:bofalse; x:nu0; inverse:bofalse; begin:nu3; off:bofalse; isdebuff:bofalse; textaura:bofalse; timer:bofalse; target:bofalse; combat:nu0; wowtex:botrue; groupany:bofalse; customsound:st; timerduration:nu0; exact:bofalse; threshold:nu50; unitn:stOnly for raid/group.; bufftype:nu1; party:bofalse; aurastextfont:nu1; stacks:nu1; isenchant:bofalse; focus:bofalse; customtex:bofalse; raid:bofalse; isdebufftype:bofalse; texture:nu42; buffname:stSword and Board; anim2:nu8; opt1:nu100; r:nu0.54509803921569; randomcolor:bofalse; y:nu-30; alpha:nu0.15000000596046; aurastext:st; customname:stShield Slam; texmode:nu1; symetrie:nu0; ismounted:bofalse; targetfriend:bofalse; sound:nu11; isinraid:bofalse; finish:nu2

gcd:bofalse; soundfile:stRaidWarning; owntex:bofalse; b:nu0.023529411764706; anim1:nu1; duration:nu0; mine:botrue; optunitn:bofalse; multiids:st; opt2:nu0; speed:nu1; finish:nu2; anim2:nu8; size:nu1.5; torsion:nu1; r:nu1; stacksOperator:st=; realaura:nu1; ignoremaj:botrue; y:nu-30; x:nu0; symetrie:nu0; begin:nu3; off:bofalse; texmode:nu1; icon:stInterface\Icons\Ability_Warrior_Bloodsurge; textaura:bofalse; target:bofalse; timerduration:nu0; wowtex:botrue; groupany:bofalse; customsound:st; combat:nu0; inverse:bofalse; buffname:stSlam!; unitn:stOnly for raid/group.; bufftype:nu1; exact:bofalse; aurastextfont:nu1; stacks:nu1; threshold:nu50; focus:bofalse; isenchant:bofalse; raid:bofalse; isdebufftype:bofalse; texture:nu46; thresholdinvert:bofalse; sound:nu11; customtex:bofalse; party:bofalse; g:nu0.07843137254902; customname:stShield Slam; alpha:nu0.25; aurastext:st; timer:botrue; isdebuff:bofalse; randomcolor:bofalse; ismounted:bofalse; targetfriend:bofalse; opt1:nu100; isinraid:bofalse; stance:nu10

gcd:bofalse; soundfile:st; owntex:bofalse; b:nu1; anim1:nu1; duration:nu0; g:nu1; thresholdinvert:bofalse; ignoremaj:botrue; opt2:nu0; speed:nu1; stance:nu10; icon:stInterface\icons\Spell_fire_meteorstorm; size:nu0.75999999046326; torsion:nu1; multiids:st; stacksOperator:st=; realaura:nu1; mine:bofalse; optunitn:bofalse; x:nu0; inverse:bofalse; begin:nu0; off:bofalse; isdebuff:bofalse; customname:st; textaura:botrue; target:bofalse; combat:nu0; wowtex:bofalse; groupany:bofalse; customsound:st; timerduration:nu0; exact:bofalse; threshold:nu30; unitn:stOnly for raid/group.; bufftype:nu10; stacks:nu0; aurastextfont:nu1; party:bofalse; customtex:bofalse; focus:bofalse; isenchant:bofalse; raid:bofalse; isdebufftype:bofalse; texture:nu1; buffname:st???; anim2:nu0; opt1:nu0; r:nu1; randomcolor:bofalse; y:nu-30; alpha:nu0.75; aurastext:st; timer:bofalse; texmode:nu2; symetrie:nu0; ismounted:bofalse; targetfriend:bofalse; sound:nu0; isinraid:bofalse; finish:nu1

gcd:bofalse; soundfile:st; owntex:bofalse; b:nu1; anim1:nu1; duration:nu0; g:nu1; thresholdinvert:bofalse; ignoremaj:botrue; opt2:nu0; speed:nu1; stance:nu10; icon:stInterface\Icons\Ability_Warrior_SavageBlow; size:nu0.20000000298023; torsion:nu1; multiids:st; stacksOperator:st=; realaura:nu1; mine:bofalse; optunitn:bofalse; x:nu-30; inverse:bofalse; begin:nu0; off:bofalse; isdebuff:bofalse; customname:stMortal Strike; textaura:bofalse; target:bofalse; combat:nu1; wowtex:bofalse; groupany:bofalse; customsound:st; timerduration:nu0; exact:bofalse; threshold:nu50; unitn:stOnly for raid/group.; bufftype:nu7; stacks:nu0; aurastextfont:nu1; party:bofalse; customtex:botrue; focus:bofalse; isenchant:bofalse; raid:bofalse; isdebufftype:bofalse; texture:nu1; buffname:stMortal Strike; anim2:nu0; opt1:nu0; r:nu1; randomcolor:bofalse; y:nu-125; alpha:nu0.75; aurastext:st; timer:bofalse; texmode:nu2; symetrie:nu0; ismounted:bofalse; targetfriend:bofalse; sound:nu0; isinraid:bofalse; finish:nu1

gcd:bofalse; soundfile:st; owntex:bofalse; b:nu1; anim1:nu1; duration:nu0; g:nu1; thresholdinvert:bofalse; ignoremaj:botrue; opt2:nu0; speed:nu1; stance:nu10; icon:stInterface\Icons\Ability_Gouge; size:nu0.20000000298023; torsion:nu1; multiids:st; stacksOperator:st=; realaura:nu1; mine:botrue; optunitn:bofalse; x:nu-90; inverse:botrue; begin:nu0; off:bofalse; isdebuff:bofalse; customname:stRend; textaura:bofalse; target:botrue; combat:nu1; wowtex:bofalse; groupany:bofalse; customsound:st; timerduration:nu0; exact:bofalse; threshold:nu50; unitn:stOnly for raid/group.; bufftype:nu2; stacks:nu0; aurastextfont:nu1; party:bofalse; customtex:botrue; focus:bofalse; isenchant:bofalse; raid:bofalse; isdebufftype:bofalse; texture:nu1; buffname:stRend; anim2:nu0; opt1:nu0; r:nu1; randomcolor:bofalse; y:nu-125; alpha:nu0.75; aurastext:st; timer:bofalse; texmode:nu2; symetrie:nu0; ismounted:bofalse; targetfriend:bofalse; sound:nu0; isinraid:bofalse; finish:nu1

gcd:bofalse; soundfile:st; owntex:bofalse; b:nu1; anim1:nu1; duration:nu0; g:nu1; thresholdinvert:bofalse; ignoremaj:botrue; opt2:nu0; speed:nu1; stance:nu10; icon:stInterface\Icons\Ability_Warrior_ImprovedDisciplines; size:nu0.20000000298023; torsion:nu1; multiids:st; stacksOperator:st=; realaura:nu1; mine:bofalse; optunitn:bofalse; x:nu30; inverse:bofalse; begin:nu0; off:bofalse; isdebuff:bofalse; customname:stExecute; textaura:bofalse; target:bofalse; combat:nu0; wowtex:bofalse; groupany:bofalse; customsound:st; timerduration:nu0; exact:bofalse; threshold:nu50; unitn:stOnly for raid/group.; bufftype:nu1; stacks:nu0; aurastextfont:nu1; party:bofalse; customtex:botrue; focus:bofalse; isenchant:bofalse; raid:bofalse; isdebufftype:bofalse; texture:nu1; buffname:stSudden Death; anim2:nu0; opt1:nu0; r:nu1; randomcolor:bofalse; y:nu-125; alpha:nu0.75; aurastext:st; timer:botrue; texmode:nu2; symetrie:nu0; ismounted:bofalse; targetfriend:bofalse; sound:nu0; isinraid:bofalse; finish:nu1

gcd:bofalse; soundfile:st; owntex:bofalse; b:nu1; anim1:nu1; duration:nu0; mine:bofalse; optunitn:bofalse; multiids:st; opt2:nu0; speed:nu1; stance:nu10; anim2:nu0; size:nu0.20000000298023; torsion:nu1; realaura:nu1; stacksOperator:st=; r:nu1; opt1:nu0; begin:nu0; off:bofalse; randomcolor:bofalse; y:nu-125; x:nu90; isdebuff:bofalse; timer:botrue; textaura:bofalse; target:bofalse; combat:nu0; wowtex:bofalse; groupany:bofalse; customsound:st; timerduration:nu0; customname:stOverpower; g:nu1; unitn:stOnly for raid/group.; bufftype:nu1; party:bofalse; aurastextfont:nu1; stacks:nu0; customtex:botrue; focus:bofalse; isenchant:bofalse; raid:bofalse; isdebufftype:bofalse; texture:nu1; sound:nu0; thresholdinvert:bofalse; threshold:nu50; exact:bofalse; buffname:stTaste for Blood; inverse:bofalse; alpha:nu0.75; aurastext:st; icon:stInterface\Icons\Ability_Rogue_HungerforBlood; texmode:nu2; symetrie:nu0; ismounted:bofalse; targetfriend:bofalse; ignoremaj:botrue; isinraid:bofalse; finish:nu1

gcd:bofalse; soundfile:st; owntex:bofalse; b:nu1; anim1:nu1; duration:nu0; g:nu1; thresholdinvert:bofalse; ignoremaj:bofalse; opt2:nu0; speed:nu1; stance:nu1; icon:st; size:nu0.75999999046326; torsion:nu1; multiids:st; stacksOperator:st=; realaura:nu1; mine:bofalse; optunitn:bofalse; x:nu0; inverse:bofalse; begin:nu0; off:bofalse; isdebuff:bofalse; customname:st; textaura:botrue; target:bofalse; combat:nu0; wowtex:bofalse; groupany:bofalse; customsound:st; timerduration:nu0; exact:bofalse; threshold:nu50; unitn:stOnly for raid/group.; bufftype:nu14; stacks:nu0; aurastextfont:nu1; party:bofalse; customtex:bofalse; focus:bofalse; isenchant:bofalse; raid:bofalse; isdebufftype:bofalse; texture:nu1; buffname:st???; anim2:nu0; opt1:nu0; r:nu1; randomcolor:bofalse; y:nu-30; alpha:nu0.75; aurastext:st; timer:bofalse; texmode:nu2; symetrie:nu0; ismounted:bofalse; targetfriend:bofalse; sound:nu0; isinraid:bofalse; finish:nu1

gcd:bofalse; soundfile:st; owntex:bofalse; b:nu1; anim1:nu1; duration:nu0; mine:bofalse; optunitn:bofalse; multiids:st; opt2:nu0; speed:nu1; finish:nu1; anim2:nu0; size:nu0.20000000298023; torsion:nu1; r:nu1; stacksOperator:st=; realaura:nu1; ignoremaj:botrue; y:nu-125; x:nu-150; symetrie:nu0; begin:nu0; off:bofalse; texmode:nu2; icon:stInterface\icons\Spell_fire_meteorstorm; textaura:bofalse; target:bofalse; timerduration:nu0; wowtex:bofalse; groupany:bofalse; customsound:st; combat:nu0; inverse:bofalse; buffname:stHeroic Strike; unitn:stOnly for raid/group.; bufftype:nu10; exact:bofalse; aurastextfont:nu1; stacks:nu0; threshold:nu80; focus:bofalse; isenchant:bofalse; raid:bofalse; isdebufftype:bofalse; texture:nu1; thresholdinvert:bofalse; sound:nu0; customtex:botrue; party:bofalse; g:nu1; customname:stHeroic Strike; alpha:nu0.75; aurastext:st; timer:bofalse; isdebuff:bofalse; randomcolor:bofalse; ismounted:bofalse; targetfriend:bofalse; opt1:nu88; isinraid:bofalse; stance:nu10

gcd:bofalse; soundfile:st; owntex:bofalse; b:nu1; anim1:nu1; duration:nu0; mine:bofalse; optunitn:bofalse; multiids:st; opt2:nu0; speed:nu1; finish:nu1; anim2:nu0; size:nu0.20000000298023; torsion:nu1; r:nu1; stacksOperator:st=; realaura:nu1; ignoremaj:botrue; y:nu-125; x:nu30; symetrie:nu0; begin:nu0; off:bofalse; texmode:nu2; icon:stInterface\Icons\Ability_Warrior_ImprovedDisciplines; textaura:bofalse; target:bofalse; timerduration:nu0; wowtex:bofalse; groupany:bofalse; customsound:st; combat:nu0; inverse:bofalse; buffname:stSudden Death; unitn:stOnly for raid/group.; bufftype:nu1; exact:bofalse; aurastextfont:nu1; stacks:nu0; threshold:nu50; focus:bofalse; isenchant:bofalse; raid:bofalse; isdebufftype:bofalse; texture:nu1; thresholdinvert:bofalse; sound:nu0; customtex:botrue; party:bofalse; g:nu1; customname:stExecute; alpha:nu0.25; aurastext:st; timer:botrue; isdebuff:bofalse; randomcolor:bofalse; ismounted:bofalse; targetfriend:bofalse; opt1:nu0; isinraid:bofalse; stance:nu10

gcd:bofalse; soundfile:st; owntex:bofalse; b:nu1; anim1:nu1; duration:nu0; mine:bofalse; optunitn:bofalse; multiids:st; opt2:nu0; speed:nu1; finish:nu1; anim2:nu0; size:nu0.20000000298023; torsion:nu1; r:nu1; stacksOperator:st=; realaura:nu1; ignoremaj:botrue; y:nu-125; x:nu-150; symetrie:nu0; begin:nu0; off:bofalse; texmode:nu2; icon:stInterface\Icons\Ability_Warrior_Bladestorm; textaura:bofalse; target:bofalse; timerduration:nu0; wowtex:bofalse; groupany:bofalse; customsound:st; combat:nu1; inverse:bofalse; buffname:stBladestorm; unitn:stOnly for raid/group.; bufftype:nu7; exact:bofalse; aurastextfont:nu1; stacks:nu0; threshold:nu50; focus:bofalse; isenchant:bofalse; raid:bofalse; isdebufftype:bofalse; texture:nu1; thresholdinvert:bofalse; sound:nu0; customtex:botrue; party:bofalse; g:nu1; customname:stBladestorm; alpha:nu0.90000003576279; aurastext:st; timer:bofalse; isdebuff:bofalse; randomcolor:bofalse; ismounted:bofalse; targetfriend:bofalse; opt1:nu0; isinraid:bofalse; stance:nu10

gcd:bofalse; soundfile:st; owntex:bofalse; b:nu1; anim1:nu1; duration:nu0; mine:bofalse; optunitn:bofalse; multiids:st; opt2:nu0; speed:nu1; finish:nu1; anim2:nu0; size:nu0.20000000298023; torsion:nu1; r:nu1; stacksOperator:st=; realaura:nu1; ignoremaj:botrue; y:nu-125; x:nu150; symetrie:nu0; begin:nu0; off:bofalse; texmode:nu2; icon:stInterface\Icons\Ability_Warrior_DecisiveStrike; textaura:bofalse; target:bofalse; timerduration:nu0; wowtex:bofalse; groupany:bofalse; customsound:st; combat:nu1; inverse:bofalse; buffname:stSlam; unitn:stOnly for raid/group.; bufftype:nu10; exact:bofalse; aurastextfont:nu1; stacks:nu0; threshold:nu40; focus:bofalse; isenchant:bofalse; raid:bofalse; isdebufftype:bofalse; texture:nu1; thresholdinvert:bofalse; sound:nu0; customtex:botrue; party:bofalse; g:nu1; customname:stSlam; alpha:nu0.75; aurastext:st; timer:bofalse; isdebuff:bofalse; randomcolor:bofalse; ismounted:bofalse; targetfriend:bofalse; opt1:nu88; isinraid:bofalse; stance:nu10

The criteria and setup is:

Bladestorm on cooldown
Heroic Strike on > 80 Rage (tweakable on the [9] Rage/Energy/Runic entry)
Rend when not on target
Mortal Strike when usable
Faded Sudden Death (and Timer) when Rage < 30
Non-Faded Sudden Death (and Timer) when Rage >= 30
Overpower (and Timer) on TfB procs
Slam on > 40 Rage (tweakable on the [12] Rage/Energy/Runic entry with Slam icon)

As noted, the rage thresholds can be tweaked based on the fight or gear if you so feel quite easily. Otherwise it's pretty standard of a PowerAuras setup and nothing super-fancy.

No warranty if it all goes terribly wrong, but it works quite well for me!

Edit: I used Quartz for showing the cast bar for Slam.

Originally Posted by FrnZ

Did you reach that dps spending points in incite and improved heroic strike?

Yes, I've had better luck with Incite builds than Imp. Execute builds on all the fights where I actually get to DPS.

levk · 06/12/09, 4:45 PM

Originally Posted by Gorrt

I wasn't speaking to how random it is, but moreso that if you have 50% passive ArmPen (for simplicity) and this trinket procs an added 50% ArmPen and it has a 20% uptime, then you have an effective 60% ArmPen rating (50 + .2*50). Levk hit it right on the head, but I'm still curious if anyone has experimented specifically with higher passive ArmPen vs procs from trinkets. Every patch that comes out seems to yield one method for yielding highest dps that become the accepted standard which I believe deters people from experimenting outside that dogma. Honestly it only seems like there are a handful of people on these forums that have that dedication and intellect to scientifically prove their hypotheses so I've asked these more experienced players first. I'll do some experimenting of my own and report back. Apologies if this discussion should belong in the spreadsheet thread, I'll move it over there if asked, but I do associate ArmPen most closely to this thread as I am speaking specifically to its effect on arms dps.

Here's a 'graff,' mind you it's not exact for a number of reasons but I think it's good enough to illustrate the point I'm trying to make.

Let the scale going right be the passive amount arp you have, up is damage; the red line is effect of arp on your damage without Grim Toll (Mjollnir, etc) and the blue line with it. The lines meet when you have 100% passive arp and therefore you get nothing out of the trinket. Vertical distance between blue and red lines at any given point is the value of the arp proc trinket in end damage terms. So if you have a trinket that gives greater return than this distance you'll replace Grim Toll with it. The green line represents the softcap - that is 100% arp with the proc and this is pretty much where the bleeding edge of gearing lies at this point; however as you move right by getting higher passive arp the value of the trinket decreases.

rainerx · 06/12/09, 5:49 PM

Originally Posted by Jayde

I basically did something similar with PowerAuras Classic showing icons in a specified order on the screen and having various criteria in the background to control it.

I made a video a month or so ago for a couple other Arms Warriors in the guild, not sure how long the link will hold out, but I've found it quite helpful and the visibility of the icons being more central and obvious means I have to spend a whole lot less time staring at my hotbar and missing the fight.

Arms UI on Vimeo

Jayde I agree with the other poster and you got a great looking UI. You able to post some specifics on what you did for the queue criteria?

*edit - thanks for posting the imports.

Darkmgl · 06/12/09, 6:57 PM

I thought XT's heart had 0 armor and wasn't effected by sunder armor/shattering throw?

Starting to get my ArP up pretty decently now, hoping soon my #s will pickup alot from the mid to upper 4000s up to the high 5000s and low 6000s in most fights soon :/. Guild is competitive, its hard to keep up coming in with almost no dps gear as an arm wars.

Jayde · 06/12/09, 9:05 PM

Originally Posted by Darkmgl

I thought XT's heart had 0 armor and wasn't effected by sunder armor/shattering throw?

Starting to get my ArP up pretty decently now, hoping soon my #s will pickup alot from the mid to upper 4000s up to the high 5000s and low 6000s in most fights soon :/. Guild is competitive, its hard to keep up coming in with almost no dps gear as an arm wars.

Have no clue about this, honestly. Haven't seen any tests/data to show one way or another in regard to the armor of the heart. Would be interesting if it was the case.

Vashar · 06/12/09, 10:29 PM

I have attempted to compile a best in slot list for Orc Arms Warriors. With the setup in the following link, I get 6811.0851 DPS according to Landsoul's spreadsheet.

chardev.org v6 ~ a World of Warcraft character planner

http://i41.tinypic.com/166j5o8.jpg

Has anyone managed to fine tune a better setup?

I have also compiled a stat weight template for Arms Warriors (based on my current Arms DPS set) if anyone wants to tweak it for their own use. I basically input my own gear setup into Landsoul's spreadsheet, update the SEP calc, and copy values over to the WoWhead.com stat weight values:

Items - World of Warcraft

Anduryondon · 06/13/09, 11:18 AM

Originally Posted by Jayde

Have no clue about this, honestly. Haven't seen any tests/data to show one way or another in regard to the armor of the heart. Would be interesting if it was the case.

If the heart would have 0 armor our whole ArP Gear would be useless on heart times and i doubt this, because my execute crits are around the double amount of execute on normal bosses with ~65% ArP.

In addition to this, i dont really get the point why people are wondering about 8k DPS on XT non hardmode. We did HM last week and i had an average DPS of >6k. In non HM, where over 50% of the fight is heart only it should be pretty normal doing 8k DPS.
It would be nice if people would start discussing about DPS in Hardmodes like XT and Vezax and not about gimmick fights where you do 100% more damage.

Novakysiss · 06/13/09, 11:25 AM

Alright, maybe someone can lend me some logic here but recently Ive been doubting the poleaxe spec because I just simply refuse to give up to the fact that it is infaliably the best spec to be without regard to the actual dps capacity of the weapons in question. What I have appeared to found out is interesting.

I did several sets of testing with just my normal raid gear that I have on, battle shout (imp), and sunders x5 on the test dummies in Ironforge. The length of these tests were not measured in time, but rather in # of crits. I tested doing exactly 100 overpower crits.

3 sets of tests of 100 OP crits with Lotrafen and poleaxe spec and
3 sets of tests of 100 OP crits with Aesir's Edge and Sword spec

I decided to do these tests because whenever I would do a normal 5 min benchmark with the two, I was coming up roughly 200 more dps as the sword spec so I wanted to see how much that 5% really counted.

Poleaxe was doing about 100-150 more per crit on average than the Sword spec. However, the sword spec was doing about 50ish dmg more on noncrit average.

Long story short, what I seemed to have found out, is that the non-crit sword spec procs had a chance to proc Sudden Death, and that in the dps tests with the sword spec I had a considerable amount more execute damage.

Lucky RNG over a couple long parses, or is it possible that Poleaxe isn't all its hyped up to be?