I've read earlier in posts about first stacking crit and then Strength. following this idea I've had a large increase in dps (probably due to gear aswell) but it seems to have tapered off. right now i have 37% crit and 3100 ap without battle shout up. and im just wondering what stat i should try to stack should be to put out more dps, not that there is any hardline rule about it from what I've read, but maybe more of a guidline....
Right now I'm sitting at 30% ArP when i put my mouse over hit. Is that added from my mace spec and battle stance? If not that would mean i have 105% ArP when grim toll procs. Should i keep stacking ArP and get more passive or stop and go with strength?
I've read earlier in posts about first stacking crit and then Strength. following this idea I've had a large increase in dps (probably due to gear aswell) but it seems to have tapered off. right now i have 37% crit and 3100 ap without battle shout up. and im just wondering what stat i should try to stack should be to put out more dps, not that there is any hardline rule about it from what I've read, but maybe more of a guidline....
Originally Posted by elmooncrack
Right now I'm sitting at 30% ArP when i put my mouse over hit. Is that added from my mace spec and battle stance? If not that would mean i have 105% ArP when grim toll procs. Should i keep stacking ArP and get more passive or stop and go with strength?
Your tooltip includes neither battle stance nor mace spec. For specific gear questions use the spreadsheet Warrior DPS Calculation Spreadsheet.
Edit: Corrected myself after checking in game (original post was from work).
Your tooltip includes both battle stance and mace spec. For specific gear questions Use the spreadsheet Warrior DPS Calculation Spreadsheet.
I know you're mistaken about Battle Stance, I haven't been Mace spec recently to comment on it authoritatively. Currently your character sheet tooltip does not reflect the ArP bonus from Battle Stance.
So I was a dedicated arms warr for a while and consistently had 200-300 more dps as arms than fury... but then since the arp change requiring very low % arp to softcap as arms and the 4sec BT buff, I've had better dps as fury. Given better / more weapons for fury, 10% less threat and the spare rage/gcds for sunders and easy interrupts, spreadsheeting higher dps with the gear available to me, etc, this seemed like the way to go..
I was seeing, though, that arms may be back on top in 3.2 because enough arp will be available to approach cap with the new 2pc bonus without a trinket proc.
Is anyone finding they still do better single target dps as arms than fury at ilvl near BiS 226 moving into 239? Is there any real compelling reason to stay arms or fight designs that favor arms?
It seems like fury having more useful stats and arms softcapping everything but STR come ilvl 226 amounts to a big advantage given the gear that's out there.
At the moment I'm using grim toll and mjolnir runestone. I thought this was a bad combination of trinkets, because both can proc at the same time! So I wanted to take on the pyrite infuser instead of grim toll to avoid these double-procs.
Now, comparing both options (1. mjolnir + grim toll; 2. mjolnir + infuser) the spreadsheet says, that mjolnir + grim toll is even better. Is it possible, that the sheet is not able to calculate this combination of trinkets correctly or is grim toll that much better, that it beats the infuser even considering the double-proc? The arp from my gear is about 50%, so grim toll and mjolnir proc at the same time is definitely useless.
It would be great, if someone had an answer or an idea about this.
At the moment I'm using grim toll and mjolnir runestone.
[...]
that it beats the infuser even considering the double-proc? The arp from my gear is about 50%, so grim toll and mjolnir proc at the same time is definitely useless.
It would be great, if someone had an answer or an idea about this.
greets!
Here's the deal:the proc of MjR and GT are about 50% ArP(not exactly,but whatever).By default,this is far stronger than the 1.2k ap you gain from pyrite infuser and a chain-procs of the two aforementioned trinkets would be much more powerful than the pyrite combination.Nonetheless,due to the high possibility of the two procs to go off together,I would suggest you to buy a darkmoon card :greatness to replace GT or,if your financial condition does not help you to do so,go for wrathstone.There's a lot of hit rating in ulduar gear,so ,in my opinion,you could easily recover from the hit rating loss soon enough.
Here's the deal:the proc of MjR and GT are about 50% ArP(not exactly,but whatever).By default,this is far stronger than the 1.2k ap you gain from pyrite infuser and a chain-procs of the two aforementioned trinkets would be much more powerful than the pyrite combination.Nonetheless,due to the high possibility of the two procs to go off together,I would suggest you to buy a darkmoon card :greatness to replace GT or,if your financial condition does not help you to do so,go for wrathstone.There's a lot of hit rating in ulduar gear,so ,in my opinion,you could easily recover from the hit rating loss soon enough.
Thank you for your answer!
Using the spreadsheet, I already tried out almost every combination of trinkets. Concerning the trinkets we were talking about (GT, infuser, darkmoon card and wrathstone) GT was the one with the most dps in combination with MjR (and yes, i regemmed hit when taking the darkmoon card or wrathstone).
However, I have doubts about this calculation: Taking MjR (or GT) twice, in each trinket slot the same item, its uptime (about 20%) just goes up to 40%. The 40% are correct in case, that with the proc of both trinkets you don't reach or go beyond the ArP-cap (with MjR 2x this isn't even possible, because of its more than 50%-proc).
This doubleing of the uptime when using 2x one trinket could be a hint, that the sheet also ignores the possibility of GT and MjR to proc together.
If everthing is right with the calculation, then GT is even with MjR one of the best trinkets.
If they proc at the same time it's a waste, because of the cap. All of your arp on your gear means nothing at that point. I highly doubt mjolnir/gt is better than greatness/mjolnir gemming for arp.
Dvaliyn, posting that on the Spreadsheet section might help Landsoul out.
In regards to your question, seeing if GT + MjR is better than DMC:G + MjR I'd say entirely depends on your passive armor pen. More armor pen you have farther than 40% (not counting battle stance / mace spec), more armor pen is wasted during proc, effectively reducing the value of those trinkets. If they both proc, it's likely a large amount has gone to waste.
MjR is up ~20% of the time.
GT is up ~20% of the time.
Statistically, both trinkets would be up only ~4% of the time, in which one of the procs is basically wasted.
MjR would be up by itself ~16% of the time
GT would be up by itself ~16% of the time
That is basically how the spreadsheet runs the calculation.
MjR+GT actually does not beat out other trinket combinations, with the exception only if you really need the hit from GT.
MjR is up ~20% of the time.
GT is up ~20% of the time.
Statistically, both trinkets would be up only ~4% of the time, in which one of the procs is basically wasted.
MjR would be up by itself ~16% of the time
GT would be up by itself ~16% of the time
That is basically how the spreadsheet runs the calculation.
MjR+GT actually does not beat out other trinket combinations, with the exception only if you really need the hit from GT.
Thank you Landsoul!
Now I understand how it works. The fact, that it's "only" 4% explains why GT + MjR is still a good combination (wearing my gear).
To be honest, the sheet says, that it's the best combination for me. That still seems a bit strange to me, but forget about it.
@ Akura:
According to the spreadsheet GT + MjR is slightly better than greatness + MjR (for me). Considering the possibility of a double proc, this was an astonishing fact for me.
Now I know, the double proc statistically occurs with a chance of only 4%. The ArP waste is not as bad as I thought.
@ Commitment
Actually I tried to post in the DPS calculation thread, but the thread is closed or whatever.
My passive ArP is about 50% and I already regemmed from ArP to str to avoid that much ArP waste. With the proc of one of the trinkets I reach the ArP cap, the second proc at the same time is totally useless.
However, becuase of the "only" 4% (see Landsoul) GT + MjR isn't that bad, even with a passive ArP of 50%.
PS: I'm sorry, but I didn't manage to quote more than one post. :o(
I have to reiterate b/c it seems you may have missed the point? You should only be wearing GT if you need the hit from it and can't get it anywhere else, otherwise use greatness with MjR.
I've come back to these forums with a question to try to get some opinions regarding dps warriors.
In our 25 man we had 2 fury warriors and a feral druid tank. We no longer have the feral druid so I am getting compelled to switch to arms. I personally do much better, like much better (around 1k more dps) as fury than as arms. I also don't like playing arms especially for Ulduar because of all the aoe fights out there.
They want one of us to go arms for the 30% bleed increase damage since we no longer have mangle. The main reason for this is to buff the dps rogues, but after looking at numerous WWS rapture damage doesn't exceed more than 8% or even 5% in most cases across the different fights on Ulduar.
There is only 2 classes that would benefit from trauma, the rogues and the warriors since we don't have a feral druid. I personally don't think its worth to nurf one of the fury warriors dps for such a small increase in the dps of rogues and 1 fury warrior, especially with all the aoe (cleaving) that you loose by switching from fury.
I wanted to ask you guys how do you feel about this and if you believe nurfing the aoe ability and dps of 1 person for a small increase in dps, of 2 rogues and 1 fury warrior, that may be negligible and not noticeable on most fights. Any feedback on this is appreciated.
Hello warrior community of EJ.
I wanted to ask you guys how do you feel about this and if you believe nurfing the aoe ability and dps of 1 person for a small increase in dps, of 2 rogues and 1 fury warrior, that may be negligible and not noticeable on most fights. Any feedback on this is appreciated.
Are your rouges combat? If not , beside Trauma you'd bring blood frenzy (+4% damage). If you are concerned about AOE spec 55/8/8, assuming CS is given by 2nd warrior (imp ThunderClap + Incinite) - it 'd help a bit with AOE (and dont forget about Sweeping Strikes).
I personally do much better, like much better (around 1k more dps) as fury than as arms.
Even in many of the boss encounters with adds, if you're doing 1k dps more as fury than arms you're probably not playing arms close to it's potential. I still find that in most fights I do a decent amount more damage as arms than fury. With some practice, proper gearing, and tight rotations you'll probably find similar results. Trauma/ mangle and blood frenzy are too good to not have even in a caster heavy raid group so bite the bullet and go arms, you may end up being really happy about it and not want to go back.
I wanted to ask you guys how do you feel about this and if you believe nurfing the aoe ability and dps of 1 person for a small increase in dps, of 2 rogues and 1 fury warrior, that may be negligible and not noticeable on most fights. Any feedback on this is appreciated.
As speeder mentioned, not only do you bring back the trauma but you bring Blood Frenzy,a 4% dps increase to _all_ physical dmg,your hunters/rogues/warriors/dks will appreciate the sacrifice
Even in many of the boss encounters with adds, if you're doing 1k dps more as fury than arms you're probably not playing arms close to it's potential. I still find that in most fights I do a decent amount more damage as arms than fury. With some practice, proper gearing, and tight rotations you'll probably find similar results. Trauma/ mangle and blood frenzy are too good to not have even in a caster heavy raid group so bite the bullet and go arms, you may end up being really happy about it and not want to go back.
The 4% damage is already covered by one of the rogues so that wont do any difference. I've already tried arms in raid before and just hated it too much, I appreciate the positive attitude but I remember I switched back to fury even when Arms was doing way better than fury (cause I couldn't stand playing that) and would do better as fury than arms or just about the same, enough to convince me to stay fury.
A bit part of it I guess is just that I don't really have a polearm or axe, my crit is going to be extremely low like 27% with current gear.
The 4% damage is already covered by one of the rogues so that wont do any difference. I've already tried arms in raid before and just hated it too much, I appreciate the positive attitude but I remember I switched back to fury even when Arms was doing way better than fury (cause I couldn't stand playing that) and would do better as fury than arms or just about the same, enough to convince me to stay fury.
A bit part of it I guess is just that I don't really have a polearm or axe, my crit is going to be extremely low like 27% with current gear.
Yea Poleaxe spec beats other weapon spec, I hope 3.2 will change it at last.
If you dont like Arms, stay fury, theses 2 specs are really close in terms of damage. Blizzard did good job here (although you can argue about dps that other hybrids can pull, ferals I'm looking at you)
For the same reason as you I stayed Arms (though initaly I hated its playstyle).
A bit part of it I guess is just that I don't really have a polearm or axe, my crit is going to be extremely low like 27% with current gear.
Poleaxm Specialization is so superior to the other specs it's not even funny. When I upgraded from The Jawbone to Betrayer of Humanity, I noticed a Holy @#%! improvement in my Arms DPS that I did not notice in my Fury DPS. So if you were trying to do Arms with one of those Rune Edges you have, I recommend you try again with BoH if you have it.
I've noticed my Arms dps improve over the months since 3.1 came out as I've improved my decision making over the rotation and which abilities to use when. For example, I find that my rotation priority changes dramatically depending on how much rage I have that particular GCD. OP and Slam are much better when you have 20 rage versus Sudden Death. On the other hand, Sudden Death is huge when you have 100 rage. Also, getting a feel of when Taste For Blood will proc again (every 6 seconds) helps you plan in advance which ability to perform next if other abilities are on cooldown. Most of the time I have my finger on the my OP button right when it procs and the GCD is up.
Anyway, I guess my point is that Arms DPS improves the more you do it and learn it's intricacies.
Poleaxm Specialization is so superior to the other specs it's not even funny. When I upgraded from The Jawbone to Betrayer of Humanity, I noticed a Holy @#%! improvement in my Arms DPS that I did not notice in my Fury DPS. So if you were trying to do Arms with one of those Rune Edges you have, I recommend you try again with BoH if you have it.
I've noticed my Arms dps improve over the months since 3.1 came out as I've improved my decision making over the rotation and which abilities to use when. For example, I find that my rotation priority changes dramatically depending on how much rage I have that particular GCD. OP and Slam are much better when you have 20 rage versus Sudden Death. On the other hand, Sudden Death is huge when you have 100 rage. Also, getting a feel of when Taste For Blood will proc again (every 6 seconds) helps you plan in advance which ability to perform next if other abilities are on cooldown. Most of the time I have my finger on the my OP button right when it procs and the GCD is up.
Get a mod that will display the Taste for Blood buff on your screen in a noticeable place. There's really no reason I know of to use it immediately, just wait till there are 5 seconds left on the buff then prioritize using it.
Regarding Sudden Death, from my experience, even a 15-20 rage Sudden Death does more base damage than a slam in my current gear. And since it's a random proc, I'd rather use them up as I get them in order to not have it refresh itself while I save up rage.
Anyway, I guess my point is that Arms DPS improves the more you do it and learn it's intricacies.
No doubt about that. And regarding Arms vs Fury, I'm the complete opposite. Coming from a Hunter and a Mage, I prefer the Arms "always doing something" playstyle to that of Fury waiting on procs and cooldowns. And seeing a white miss, or a string of them bugs me to no end when I can be hitcapped in a different spec. Just one of those OCD kinds of things I guess.
Do we have a BiS list that doesn't include hardmode gear for Arms/Fury? Landsoul has one posted near the gear grid, but quite a few of those items are from some of the harder hard modes which my guild will not be downing anytime soon. Thanks.
Do we have a BiS list that doesn't include hardmode gear for Arms/Fury? Landsoul has one posted near the gear grid, but quite a few of those items are from some of the harder hard modes which my guild will not be downing anytime soon. Thanks.
If you read throught the pages of the warrior spreatsheet thread you can find them.
Get a mod that will display the Taste for Blood buff on your screen in a noticeable place. There's really no reason I know of to use it immediately, just wait till there are 5 seconds left on the buff then prioritize using it.
Notice that I said use Taste for Blood "if other abilities are on cooldown". I don't always use OP immediately. Yes I have an addon to let me know when it procs and yes I know that the TfB procs every 6 seconds regardless of when you use OP.
My point is a lot of the time I know when TfB is about to proc even before it procs and therefore can plan on using it if I know my next GCD will be open. It's only been after a lot of experience playing Arms that I've been able to do this during a fight that a new person trying out Arms may not be able to do.
I've been a long time reader of posts relating to anything to do with warriors. Very recently I have switched my spec to arms and have seen, like many others, that until we reach the cusp of Ulduar gear we usually find ourselves neck to neck with Fury warriors (with a few exceptions of course). However, it seems that we also almost always tend to see our DPS near or at the bottom of the damage/DPS meters in high end raiding guilds. I absolutely love my warrior, and have been trying everything possible to improve my output. I originally sought to post about my recent discovery of simply switching my spec from a typical arms to a typical fury spec, and adding a decent off hand weapon and seeing my DPS (in Landsouls spreadsheet) go up by over 100 points. Yet, I now see how little that matters when the highest end gear for DPS warriors only puts out 6-7k, while every other melee class can surpass that, I wonder when Blizzard is, if ever, going to bring the DPS warrior back into an important role in raids. Currently I do on average of about 6k in Ulduar as arms. However I was rejected from one of the top guilds on my server, simply because they can only afford to have one DPS warrior in their guild; and even then, I see him sitting on certain fights which require incredibly heavy DPS. Why? Why is it that we cannot even have a fair chance with other melee classes? I'm looking forward to see what kind of an effect the upcoming changes will have on our class as DPS and hope that people can share what they feel about this seemingly unfair disadvantage that our particular melee class is currently in. Again, I understand the forum rules. I'm not complaining so much as asking others to argue my observations. I want someone to prove me wrong, so I have some hope at the end of the tunnel in respect to my warrior.
I think we are not keeping up with other melee classes in terms of DPS because our Tier 8 set is sorely lacking crit when compared to our Tier 7 gear.
Rogues only lose some stamina and some haste when they upgrade to Tier 8. Shaman's only lose a minor amount of expertise, hit, and stamina. Warriors on the other hand lose 3.42% crit. Couple that loss with the shortage of plate gear with crit on it and you can see why warrior dps is not scaling with other classes.
06/24/09, 12:13 PM
like 27% with current gear.
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