As far as I can tell, any enchant except defense seems pretty well useless at the moment on a shield. Unless we get handed a new Stam enchant (which I really hope we do, and for weapons as well * /kick whoever decided to CANCEL our stam to weapon enchant that was supposed to happen*) then block value is by far negligible compared to being able to actually produce avoidance stats as well as % to block from Defense.

The stam enchant was very necessary to take out. If they didn't take it out every single tank would put stam on their weapon. It would take any choice of the weapon enchant out. Also, with current content, it would produce even more imba between other classes that have better stamina multipliers.

It really depends on tank's gear. With avoidance diminishing returns stacking avoidance is not a good option nowadays. So if tank has crit cap then getting a bit more mitigation and tps (with 40 block value enchant) would be at least not worse than getting some defence.

There's not really any choice in enchants now anyway, and none of them are that useful they're just meh. It wasn't necessary to take it out at all, they still need to make a new stamina enchant for every other slot, why not weapons, but instead we get new versions of crap like icy chill that no one uses.

At the moment there is some variety, even if no one enchant stands out. Accuracy, Mongoose and Titanium Weapon Chain seem popular choices. If a stamina enchant was released, there would always be only one option for all tanks.

I've chosen Accuracy for hit so I can focus more on expertise in my gear and the extra crit can help with the 3% of crit I've lost from cruelty although its definitely not game breaking.

DKs have lots of options, and RotSG - despite the fact that it's the only runeforge that gives stam - is by no means the only one DK tanks ever use.

I don't really think that "it would be the only good tanking enchant and so all the tanks would use it" is an argument against stam enchants. If you only added a 3% reduced spell damage to weapon, or only added a 2% armor increase, or only added a 2% avoidance enchant, all the tanks would use that too. It has nothing to do with the fact that it's a stam enchant, and everything to do with the fact that it'd be the only tanking enchant.

The solution is not to say "well I guess we're not going to add any tank enchants at all". That's like not having caster weapons in the game because all the casters would want the very first one you added. The solution is just to continue to add more tanking enchants, so that tanks have options - and then you can safely assume that tanks will have a tanking enchant, but not necessarily the stam one.

Now, maybe they have some other (better) reason for not wanting to add tanking enchants. But balking at adding the first one because all the tanks would use it just leaves me scratching my head.

Block Rating and Block Value, as we know, do not suffer from diminishing returns. I would rather be fairly avoidable with a block like a truck wrapped in barbwire, than be a bit more avoidable with shit for block rating and no value to back that rating up (though certain fights, I.E. Patchwerk, would be an exception to this) . By stacking straight avoidance, you may be aiming for BC stats, but you are going to give up on a good chunk of stats you could be getting the full potential out of elsewhere (not to mention putting you in a position to be rage starved). Going over defnse cap, possibly to 555-565 may be an option to squeeze out a bit more avoidance. Defense has the DR too, but when you're dodge is getting over 26-27%, that defense will scale better to raise all avoidance/mitigation (the ever-wonderful miss), speading out what you are stacking in order to not get penalized by DR too bad.

Sidenote: 3.1: Titanium plating will also include a 50% reduction to disarm effects.

Miss is also affected by DR, and very severely so, as the Miss Cap is at 16%. Refer to http://elitistjerks.com/f31/t29453-c...gs_level_80_a/

So Defense would only really provide more avoidance than straight Dodge is when you are at really low Parry levels or extremely high Dodge levels, which is not the case with contemporary gear. I suggest using an addon like RatingBuster to compare avoidance gear as it takes DR into account. In an earlier version of RatingBuster Miss DR was not implemented and it was assumed to be the same as Dodge so Defense was reported to be more valueable even in terms of raw avoidance. As explained in the thread linked above this is not the case.

This may not apply to anybody but for most 25man geared warrior tanks right now the avoidance stats would rank like this in efficiency: Dodge > Defense > Parry

And Block really is a situational stat for trash and weak-hitters. For Patchwerk you'd want more Stamina, Armor or straight avoidance.

I'm trying to improve as a tank, but in my guild, i am pretty much the only warrior tank. Please let me know if you see any glaring problems...Having some trouble with tps, same as most warrior tanks atm (until we get the rage buff in 3.1.0 i hope), right now i do over 3-3.5k tps on average, certain bosses as high as 4-4.5k - Am I hitting a "threat cap"? Can i still pump out more? I always use elixer of mighty fortitude and elixer of expertise, and im about 9 off hit cap because of a recent gear change... Let me know if you have any suggestions.

This is last WWS from our last attempt at an Immortal run (so dps is a little lower for our high hitters, but my tanking is the same as always, sadly - we failed on saph when 1 person died during ice block)
Wow Web Stats

Here is my current gearset. I switch a fwe things out if i need the stam/hp, but threat is my most important thing to work on atm. Ive done all raid content, including 25man OS 3d so if you have any specific boss suggestions, I will know what you are talking about!
The World of Warcraft Armory

Please help! Thanks

oh and i dont necessarily use a rotation, I use a priority system incorporating my ShieldSlam/Revenge macro (hits whichever is off CD, so if revenge procs, I hit it nearly instantly - and shield slam has priority however, so if it procs, its the first one to go.

Priority List:
Shield Slam/Revenge
Devastate (until 5 stacks) - only after to renew CD
Heroic Strike
Thunderclap
Concussion Blow
Shockwave
Heroic Throw

And I always start off with my macro buff (and hit every minute) with bloodrage, commanding shout, shield block (since they share a 1 minute CD anyway, saves time to click one macro).

Your best bet man would be to edit these posts before you get reported, read the forum rules, then after doing that...Look around the site. Take some initiative & respect those who spent weeks crunching numbers. I doubt they want to answer the same question over..and over..and over again (as I am coming to notice.)You'll find all you need, plus more that you didn't even know you need. =p

If you can't find specific information regarding a certain 'thing' from sifting thru forums , then press on with a question backed with viable information from research to show you didn't just come on here and say 'help me!' and you have a comprehensive understanding of what you are talking about.

You say your hitting 3k-4.5k tps? Well one, look at your spec...sift the threads..And I have no idea how you did sarth 3d
with no last stand and only 2 points into anticipation...unless you were the add tank.

i actually pulled back from anticipation, because i could better use the points for threat increases. Sorry, didn't notice my topic was off rules, I've gone through forums, read the articles, changed my spec around dozens of times, and Ive found this works best. Im trying to put all of my information out there, so that if there is another warrior who sees my specific problem, that may help. Other than gear upgrades, I have no clue what to do, and am simply trying to seek help. Figured might as well post everything at once instead of one small piece of information, then get asked questions based on the other missing info

Also, I'm saying I have no idea what to do, because I have looked at nearly every thread on this site, tankspot, wow forums, even vaguely pertaining to warrior tanking, and have taken as much as i can out of it. Other than looking online, I also theorycraft in game with my rotation, utilizing macros and keybindings to speed up my reaction times. My tps isnt bad, but im dealing with dps who are getting ever closer to the threat cap because of their gear and their play style. Granted I'm dealing with a guild that would blame a tank before just telling dps to get omen, but if there is something I can do, I want to do it. Like I said, I'm doing a good amount of tps, and with dps who has omen, and knows how to max out dps while minimizing aggro using aggro dumps/mitigation, then I'm fine. Why not put all my information out there so that if someone finds it in their heart to help, they can see everything pertaining to my situation.

andrew

While I'm not the authority that many people here are, I thought I'd see if I can give a bit of input with your problem. I agree that your TPS is flat out low (no offense) though it doesn't look like you're maintank which makes things a lot more tricky. Remember that not every class has an aggro-reducing ability, so your threat should be what keeps them from overaggroing most of the time. You seem to have 5 tanks (judging from damage taken), so your incomming rage is going to be tiny - I don't know why your guild feels you need that many but 3 should be plenty for the whole of naxx heroic. This could be a big part of the problem in this particular naxx run.

Your gear and gem choices have a huge amount of hit and expertise. Some is nice but, really, do you think you need all of it to be an effective tank? Leaving your hp sitting less than 28k unbuffed is not making it as easy on your healers as it should be and if you're going for the Immortal achievement you want to give your healers all the breathing room you can.

Looking at your WWS again, you've made just 506 attacks that are on the gcd over the course of 1751 seconds. Your cycle doesn't matter if you're not attacking. Your DPS uptime was only 15% of your presence compared to >25% for most of your raid - this needs to be looked at. You should be the first person into a fight, and you can charge in combat so there's no excuse for not being in there! Your DPS time should be the highest in the raid, not the lowest.

Another problem is that out of all your attacks (on the gcd), 306 were devastate. That's 60% of all attacks - I understand if you're spamming it a little near the start of boss fights but you should have another look at your priorities - you're certainly not using the priorities you posted above (and as has been mentioned, review that list a little bit). This is another (massive!) area where you can increase your TPS. Oh, and don't bother with prioritising applying sunders on trash, it dies too quickly to do that.

Final point (the most surprising one to me) is that looking at your damage shield, you've taken a grand total of 179 physical hits (no, I'm not missing a digit or two). That's...practically negligible...and probably due to a combination of the above points and vorpalblade's comments.

Your comment about theroycrafting in game with rotations and having read everything etc. doesn't really cut even the thinnest of ice with this sort of breakdown I'm afraid (and remember there's a built-in threat indicator to the default interface post-3.0.2 so Omen is a moot point).

Please refer to post below (Delete this if required)

I include so much info, except that. Yes, my guild uses me as an offtank, which I do know causes problems with rage, which causes problem with aggro, since I literally can't use all my abilities as much as I'd like to. My tps been 3-3.5k average when offtanking because I am rage starved - when I main tank in pugs I run from time to time for both 10 and 25man, i do about 4-4.5 average, and i can sometimes go as high as 6 with a completely stationary boss like patch. But im not here to QQ, I just want to see if there are other things I have yet to try. Just regemmed a bit, and gonna see how this plays out in raiding.

But so far thank you for the suggestions, Ive already made a few changes that really seem to help!

I hope my wall of text has not scared you away and I did use some BOLD text to highlight your main problem. To make it more clear here goes.

You MT'd Thaddius and your priority from looking at the wws link at the bottom of my last post was as follows... Devastate -> Thunderclap -> Concussion Blow -> Shield Slam/Revenge (HS 98%). You used Concussion Blow (30 sec CD) more than Shield Slam (6 sec CD).

This is what it should look like on Thaddius, Shield Slam -> Revenge -> Devastate -> Etc. If you have read anything on this forum Shield Slam needs to be used everytime it comes off cooldown or becomes available through sword and board.

Can you see the problem? You must have had infinite rage on this boss, know wonder you could heroic strike 98% of the time.

"I just want to see if there are other things I have yet to try. Just regemmed a bit, and gonna see how this plays out in raiding."

Its not your gear although that can play a part in TPS, its your priority within a rotation or lack of.

Torment of the Weak gives Magi a benefit to their DPS when their targets attack speed is slowed, so if you're wanting to maximise DPS I don't see why you should advise someone not to use it. If we're talking about 25 man raiding, chances are it's very likely you have a Death Knight in the raid and your target's attack speed is going to be slowed regardless of whether or not you've used Thunderclap.
Lastly, as noted by other posters, there are a number of other factors which will have an overall larger effect on your rage generation than whether you've debuffed Thunderclap or not. Anecdotally, unless you're in 10-Man Naxxramas with a Discipline Priest chain casting Power Word Shield on you, I can't think of any situation where you would be so rage starved as a Main Tank that you would be completely hamstrung by debuffing the boss - assuming your talent or gearing choices are appropriate the content.

To Tauftamir,

I think that's a very minor concern and not really worth going into. I mentioned this because he TC'd 21 times compared to 6 for SS & REV, TC uses a GCD... I'd rather use another ability for threat purposes. The fight went for 5 mins and it looks as though he was making sure it was up at all times.

The rage part of the statement was just additional info and I should have made that more clear or not mentioned it at all.

His main issue is he really does not give SS/REV priority over everything else in his rotation.

2 seconds? Waiting that 2 seconds will certainly lose you around a quarter or so of your GCDs (slightly less with S&B procs factored in, I'm not going to attempt the math, the point is it's significant). I seem to remember a short discussion about delaying shield slam a little bit and using an ability with less than 1.5 seconds left until SS cd is up - I can't find it from a very quick search and haven't the time at the moment. Regardless, this should certainly read 1.5 seconds as a maximum and probably more like 1 second.

DrChem

Another thing I should have mentioned is that I play from Australia and I'm sitting on 400ms+ to the server at all times, especially during raids. So you would obviously adjust that based on how it is for you. If I press with 1 sec to go I've probably wasted over a sec in TPS time due to the delay.

On patchwerk the most DPS I can push out is ~3k and that's hit/exp capped with a very aggressive gear setup, I've seen other tanks who able to do 3.4k+ however I know that there in the U.S. and playing on low pop servers.

There is no variety. After Accuracy was released there was no choice, just like in TBC, mongoose was your only choice, unless you went with a cheap alternative cause you were broke. You either go Accuracy, or poor mans accuracy. that being the weapon chain, for cheap items you intend to replace soon. Reason for that is that it's the only new tanking enchant. It's pretty stupid, and they should just put in a real tanking enchant, cause even if it'll be the only enchant tanks use, it won't change anything cause everyone will just move from accuracy to the new enchant. And like said before in this thread, not having a tanking enchant just cause every tank will use it is as retarded of an argument as not having a caster enchant, or a healing enchant.

Well there is also Mongoose (perfectly fine choice for tanks that literally do not have any use for hit on their weapon). You are also forgetting that not every tank is a warrior, there's old Potency as an option for Paladins and agility things for druids. A 40 stamina enchant would replace all these options for every class, though I agree there should be a bit more variety. Before Mongoose there was no tank enchant either, just agility or Crusader, so if anything, Mongoose is the oddity. Assuming they want to make defensive weapon enchants I'd like to see some with more variety than just stamina - a new Crusader would be pretty awesome.

I don't think we'll see an updated version of crusader because we have Berzerking and Lifeward. Perhaps though.