Kaistlin

What would be the advantage of a macro like that? Wouldn't it be easier to just watch for which one is off CD and hit that one? I'm pretty sure it has been mentioned macros develop bad habits and laziness.
Also, you don't need to specify ranks unless you're down ranking for some reason. If you don't specify a rank, it uses the highest rank possible.

 

blackpandemic

They are the two highest threat abilities but each can be triggered multiple yet separate ways so putting them in macro would be a bad idea in my opinion. If a Devastate hit procs revenge, you'd have to hit Shield Slam to get to Revenge (provided you only used that macro). To avoid that you'd have to put Revenge on your bars anyway, so why use a macro with a 1 second reset?

 

imwithblink

Ok, so this will sound like I'm using an excuse for myself, but I'm actually a dk tank, so anyways...
My guildie is a prot warrior, 25man geared, so has plenty of health/avoidance. The problem is, his threat generation is HORRIBLE. On 25man patchwerk, he put vigilance on me, and still couldnt out-threat the dps, and i was still 40% above them. Anyways, I've been reading these forums, and there's so many mixed opinions on threat production, I don't know what advice to give him.This is basically what he does:
His first move is heroic throw, then charges into to target, or in case of Malygos, just waits for him to come to him. Then he shield slams, and waits for revenge to proc, uses it, then uses sunder armor, and finally hits shield slame whenever its up. It takes him a long time to get any sunders on the target, so the dps pulls immediately.
It is my understanding that his order, at least to start, should be HT, shield block (lets GCD recover while malygos runs over), sheild slam, Devastate, DEvastate, (he claims sunder does more threat until u have 5 sunders, then devastate) Then shield slam again, then go by priority using revenge every time it procs, devastates to get to 5 sunders and a couple times thereafter to replenish the sunders, sheild slams after every cooldown, then when you have gaps between slams, you can do shockwaves/Concussive Blow/Heroic strikes and keep shield block up to trigger sword and boards, and so on... So does that sound like it would help his threat production any, or am I a noob? lol, I've never tanked in a raid as a warrior, so i dont know very much about them. I just know in TBC, all i ever heard was "let me get 3 sunders up before you open up" then u never pulled on them. However, I seem to be able to out threat them as tank very easily, even in single target scenarios, so I'm wondering if the warrior threat gen was nerfed any... Anyways, any help would be appreciated. Thanks

 

Kampfschaf

Can you come up with a WWS of a fight where he has this threat issues? Would help a lot to see how often he uses what abilities and if his hit and expertise are fitting. Also an armory link to him could help to quickly review his gear.

 

Liriel

@Bitterfrosst:
I'm not sure if I got it right. But I never wait doing nothing for revenge to pop up if it is not ready. Most times it will be ready when it's not on CD. But if not it does no good to wait for it to procc. Even if revenge would be the highest thread move (which it isn't), you lose more thread by waiting for it than doing something else. Even if one waste some microseconds on the availability of revenge.

If revenge is not usable it is a good idea to start applying sunder (devastate is better even at the beginning). But most times I would use TC in that slot since it does more thread than devastate and I will need it anyway on bosses. (Yes, poor melee would have to wait 1,5s longer for the final sunder stacks if there is nobody else applying it.) Often I will even use SW first due to the longer CD and more thread.

If it is a dps/thread race like Malygos 6m and I don't have a hunter or rouge misdirecting me, my first priority is to use every rage I get on high thread moves. If the DPS does not catch me from the start (which they don't) I will focus on putting those sunders on the boss since it surly helps the meele to get their DPS out. But my first few moves will be to get thread not to debuff. So if he needs some time to apply those 5 sunders that may not be a bad sign.

From TBC to WotLK devastate lost much of it's usability for thread. A warrior tank tries to do every other GCD move he can before he decides to use devastate (or - worse - sunder) in a GCD-slot. So the opening may consist of less devastate (sunder) than it was in TBC. In WotLK I would never say "wait until 3 sunder". It is more like "if you waited until my first sunder you have waited to long".

The first some GCDs after Malygos lands I try to push up to 3 buttons together since there is plenty of stuff to do that is not on GCD. At least if I can manage to get enough rage. I'm not sure how others do it but I don't use shield block for the first SS on Malygos since I'm busy doing other stuff (as a troll I also use my racial there) and I hope to get some more rage at the start because of blocking less. With Malygos I don't charge so I do not have those rage at the beginning. I use shield block for the next SS. And it works for me. (I think using SB for the first SS would be better since Malygos is a hard-hitter but I screw that bit up every time I try it.)

Another thing I do at the start of Malygos is taunt when he lands. It ensures me that Malygos will turn to me in the first fishy moments even if an enhancement shaman gets some weird proccs before my SS lands. That's not for gaining thread but forcing Malygos to hit me and nobody else for the first 3s. After that I should be far ahead of anybody else in omen.

Some things you got mixed up in your post:
Shield block is not (and was not in TBC) on GCD and it does not trigger S&B. Revenge and devastate can procc S&B and because of that you use them. S&B procces a free SS which is the best thread move the warrior has.

So for optimal SS usage the "rotation" would be SS - revenge - devastate - everything else that is off CD. And start at the beginning if S&B procced. The problem with that is that you cannot do revenge after each SS and sometimes you want to get those others CDs running even if you have a string of many S&B-proccs. So the "real" thing is to decide when to weave those other moves into the SS-revenge-devastate-rotation. A skill one should not forget is rend. Especially on Malygos since the dot will do damage even if you cannot reach him - not much but more than nothing.

You did not mention HS in your post. It should be used on every swing when he has enough rage to do it additionally to everything else. (And to stop it when he gets rage starved which I get sometimes even with Malygos.)

On Malygos it's a hard decision where to put vigilance. It may be the warlock who can do his full rotation for the whole p1. Or on a melee with good DPS and thread who cannot reset thread (DK, ret pala, enhanc, warrior).

So much without knowing more about his gear, his talents or a WWS.

 

Ikswosil

Aside from the gear question (which we can't answer unless you were to give us an armory link), the basic concepts of warrior tanking have already been discussed in this thread. Tell him to read this thread as you two apparently do not know which abilities will generate the most threat for him. As a quick hint, take a look at how many melee swings he has versus heroic strikes on a given boss encounter. On something like Patchwerk, you really shouldn't see any more than 2-3 melee swings as they should all be converted into heroic strikes. Ideally, he will have zero or one. Now, the other issue on something like Patchwerk is if he is the third tank he could be rage starved if your healers are keeping your first two tanks topped off well. This could impact his threat generation. If he is getting hit regularly, however, on Patchwerk and having trouble keeping up there is something inherently wrong with what he is doing and that can really only be broken down via WWS or more information.