You have to remember Shield Slam's threat is greatly increased as of next patch too. Your rotation will be completely based on what your aiming for, threat or damage.
Personally, I'm dropping imp.revenge for the 2 spare points in order to nearly max out shield spec and focused rage.
Sticking with the traditional Shield slam/Dev/Dev/X starting from the start if sword and board procs and X is filled with Thunderclap>Demo shout>Shockwave>Dev.
Do whatever works for you.
So our basic priority for damage will be Shockwave>Shield Slam>Devastate>Revenge if low on rage>Conc Blow with T10 2p.
It depends on your block value. Shieldslam is always better than shockwave when you have shieldblock up. In my case shieldslam is always before shockwave with the 2pc bonus right now (you're talking about less than 200 damage for 1000+ threat, that's not really a debate, especially with the short cooldown on Shieldslam and the long cooldown on shockwave).
Use the spreadsheet I linked earlier in the thread, it should be directionally correct (found here in case you missed it: 'Complete' Protection Warrior DPS/TPS spreadsheet). The author hasn't updated it for 3.3.2 yet, but it's easy enough to do yourself. On the abilities tab change cell E3 to =(5*202+WPN_DMG*WPN_SPEED+INT(2.4/14*AP))*1.2 and change cell G3 and G4 to =INT(0.75*AP)*0.5. That should update for the intended devastate changes and conc blow.
The only unknown right now is what Blizzard means by a 30% increase in shieldslam threat. I'm assuming they mean the passive threat portion and that they haven't added a threat multiplier to the damage dealt, but I don't think that's been confirmed.
Why would the 2-set bonus matter? It increases both Shield Slam and Shockwave by the same percentage.
Either way, even with Shockwave being very strong due to the opportunity cost, DPR, and rotational benefits to prioritizing Shield Slam, it's typically best to fit in Shockwave in the 'dead' GCD (3rd after a Shield Slam) provided SnB does not proc on the 2 Devastates following a Shield Slam.
So, really, I would work off a functional 'rotation' (which resets on SnB procs) of:
Shield Slam -> Devastate -> Devastate -> (Debuff Refresh > Shockwave > Devastate)
Sqeez, the bonus threat on Devastate is not quite equal to the Sunder Armor threat. It is 315 + 5% of AP. This is doubled by Glyph of Devastate.
I will have Rawr.ProtWarr updated very soon with the live changes to Devastate (was seeing if they were going to do a quick hotfix to the static portion not being updated) which will allow really easy comparisons of Threat/Damage per execute post-patch.
Sqeez, the bonus threat on Devastate is not quite equal to the Sunder Armor threat. It is 315 + 5% of AP. This is doubled by Glyph of Devastate.
As a note, there was a discussion over at Tankspot about that value and some were reporting that the 315 is now 345. Satrina updated his warrior threat values thread if you are interested in checking it out. I don't recall the other thread which spawned that discussion, but I think it was in the Theorycrafting forum.
It's a minor note, but just wanted to toss that at you for rawr purposes (if it has indeed changed).
Why would the 2-set bonus matter? It increases both Shield Slam and Shockwave by the same percentage.
The static non-damage portion of shieldslam should be unaffected by the set bonus. A large portion of the threat difference is effectively from that static value. Sorry, I was a little ambiguous in my post. You're right it shouldn't matter.
On a related topic, do we know if the "30% increase to shieldslam threat" is only on the base (previously) 770 innate threat or is it applied to the scaling/damage portion too? It's hard to tell based on the actual patch notes and I haven't seen anything on tankspot or the official forums.
Think I used 345 for my calculation so my result is slightly out.
But yeah, I read that the new value was 340+5%ap w/o glyph again I didnt have access to the game when I made that post so was running off using figures I remembered and could find easily.
Also, it seems the bonus threat of Shield slam is variable. It's not staying even remotely constant in the ~30mins of testing I did before the raid on Wednesday. Hope someone better than me at this can update us with some valid figures soon.
Fellwraith, my testing seems to indicate the 30% is on the total threat for the ability. So it is (Damage + 770) * 1.3, as far as I can tell. This is quite a boost to the bonus threat, obviously, and makes it the highest threat ability by quite a margin.
Also, I did confirm Devastate is still 315 + 5% AP bonus threat.
I've always been a Glyph of Blocking guy. As far as I was concerned, More Block Value was always a good thing. However, when I actually recorded numbers, I was really under whelmed. On my character sheet, the amount of damage my blocks absorbed increased by 100 after shield slamming. Over the course of a boss fight, taking into consideration my 18% block, This isn't helping me much, nor would i expect it to really save my behind in any situation. The mitigated damage also seems to increase by only 10% of your base block value, because shield block does not increase the amount of damage mitigated by the glyph.
With the nerf to block value's scaling with Shield Slam, Glyph of block seems to have exhausted its usefulness in Wrath of the Lich King. I think Glyph of Taunt is now the way to go. I say so because my t9 2 set bonus is not long for this world, so a taunt missing can no longer be fully remedied by Mocking Blow, and many fights in icc require prompt tank switches.
I don't understand why you would use Glyph of Taunt when you can just carry it around and switch it out for fights that require you to make a taunt considering they only cost a couple of gold.
I personally keep Glyph of Devastate, Glyph of Shield Wall, Glyph of Last Stand, Glyph of Taunting, Glyph of Blocking, Glyph of Vigilance and Glyph of Cleave on me at all times for different situations. My "standard" setup is Glyph of Devastate, Glyph of Blocking and Glyph of Shield Wall. Glyph of Blocking is a very good glyph because it is one of the few glyphs in game that actually add single target damage for a prot warrior which is quite important for current encounters like Festergut and BQL, plus it adds a small amount of survival.
I have typically run Blocking + Devastate + Shield Wall for the reasons you've mentioned, although given the gradual decline in the power of Blocking, I'm leaning toward swapping it out for other things. It is a very good idea, though, to carry around stacks of glyphs as you say. Getting someone in your guild to make you some glyphs is generally very cheap, and removes a lot of the issues surrounding choosing from the large number of utility glyphs we have.
I started carrying around small stacks of a few different glyphs a while back. Unexpectedly, what happened is I settled out at an equilibrium glyph set which I pretty much don't touch. The majors are Blocking, Devestate, and Taunt. I never put shield wall in now because I never expect to use it twice.
Why Taunt? Because, especially without 2pT9, I find a missed taunt is one of the most notorious single causes of things getting sloppy. Essentially I observed that Taunt is your primary enabler for executing most encounter strategies, and decided that the thing that lets me do the fight properly is not an acceptable candidate for RNG based failure. "I rolled bad and things got all hectic" is something we all agree won't do when it comes to our damage intake, I see this as very similar.
I also find it sort of funny people always raise Saurfang and Festergut as places where the Taunt glyph shines. Both of these fights are pretty forgiving in this area: you should be able to get away with at least 2 fumbled tank swaps before it starts to effect the raid (one of the reasons we taunt at gastric bloat = 7). Compare to Gormok, where any slipup was an immediate threat, or Gunship evades, where you don't always have time to try another skill before someone dies. However, in my mind the fights were Taunt missing kicks your ass the most are add fights, where it can spoil your positioning sequence enough to cause secondary complications (ever wound up tanking anub adds out of cleave range because you had to charge that one stray?). Think forward to Heroic Deathwhisper... I expect managing add pickups around threat debuff pattycake will be the sort of thing that derails easily.
From the perspective of a warrior who only tanks 10H 25N, I've never felt the need for GoTaunt. Between taunt, MB and shout I've always got something available to force a switch even should 1 (or 2) miss. On 25H where tolerances are much lower, this may not be acceptable.
From the perspective of a warrior who only tanks 10H 25N, I've never felt the need for GoTaunt. Between taunt, MB and shout I've always got something available to force a switch even should 1 (or 2) miss. On 25H where tolerances are much lower, this may not be acceptable.
Taunt miss followed by mocking blow followed by another taunt can completely screw up a Putricide attempt as you hit the taunt DRs. The glyph is situationally useful, even on normal mode. Just because you haven't been unlucky doesn't mean that will always be the case. I guess with unlimited attempts it doesn't matter anymore, but it did 3 weeks ago.
All the glyphs are situationally useful in ICC, even shieldwall and last stand (particularly on sindragosa and the lich king). I'm swapping them pretty frequently throughout the course of the week.
Taunt miss followed by mocking blow followed by another taunt can completely screw up a Putricide attempt as you hit the taunt DRs. The glyph is situationally useful, even on normal mode. Just because you haven't been unlucky doesn't mean that will always be the case. I guess with unlimited attempts it doesn't matter anymore, but it did 3 weeks ago.
All the glyphs are situationally useful in ICC, even shieldwall and last stand (particularly on sindragosa and the lich king). I'm swapping them pretty frequently throughout the course of the week.
Not sure how it could 'screw up' the taunt DR, but the mocking blow can definitely be 'screwed up by' the diminishing returns. Even so, you have time for 2 taunts before the next debuff applies. There is also plenty of tanking gear with hit such as t10 gloves, crafted boots, Ashen Verdict reputation ring and Broken Ram Skull Helm. With items such as these you can easily be hitcapped, especially with a draenai in group. Of course, you could argue that ignoring hit on gear and swapping a glyph is a better solution and you would probably be correct.
Not sure how it could 'screw up' the taunt DR, but the mocking blow can definitely be 'screwed up by' the diminishing returns. Even so, you have time for 2 taunts before the next debuff applies. There is also plenty of tanking gear with hit such as t10 gloves, crafted boots, Ashen Verdict reputation ring and Broken Ram Skull Helm. With items such as these you can easily be hitcapped, especially with a draenai in group. Of course, you could argue that ignoring hit on gear and swapping a glyph is a better solution and you would probably be correct.
It has been confirmed MULTIPLE times that taunt requires you to be spell hit capped, not melee hit capped.
And it screws up the taunt DR because you taunt, it's resisted(I believe this still triggers the DR countdown), you then cast Mocking Blow(second tick on the DR), then you taunt to really get the full aggro(you are now at three on the DR) meaning that it's quite possible taunt won't be off the DR when your OT needs to taunt again.
GoTaunt is situational, yes, but for fights where a taunt means a wipe or not, it's priceless.
And, yes, you could argue you could even get spell hit capped with all the hit gear, but getting 8% hit from a glyph seems like you can use a lot more itemization points towards your EH instead.
Incidentally being melee hit-capped also means you will be spell hit-capped with use of the Taunt glyph due to different hit rating conversions.
You can get away with less than that if you have the 3% spell hit buff from misery or faerie fire in the group (~5% melee hit is enough in that situation).
Missed taunts count against the taunt DR. So a series of 3 of them (taunt miss, mocking, taunt) means your DR timer isn't reset for the next tank who needs to taunt on a fight like Putricide (in addition to causing some healing issues when aggro doesn't immediately switch).
I was under the impression that Taunt was 16% hit, not 8% hit?
Such that the glpyh covers the difference between the melee hit cap and the "taunt" hit cap?
Missed taunts count against the taunt DR. So a series of 3 of them (taunt miss, mocking, taunt) means your DR timer isn't reset for the next tank who needs to taunt on a fight like Putricide (in addition to causing some healing issues when aggro doesn't immediately switch).
Why would missed taunts count against the DR? This is the first time I've ever seen that mentioned, I had always assumed it worked just like CC DRs in that the DR counter didn't 'increment' until you actually got the debuff.
In any case I believe they upped the number of taunts until full immunity to 5 a patch or two ago. It's extraordinarily unlikely that you'll ever hit the final DR on taunt unless you're spamming it on cooldown, even if you have to use mocking blow every time.
I was under the impression that Taunt was 16% hit, not 8% hit?
Such that the glpyh covers the difference between the melee hit cap and the "taunt" hit
Yes, but hit rating converts to spell hit at a better rate than melee hit. This means that if you're capped for melee at 8% hit, you'll actually have something like 10-11% spell hit (don't remember the exact number). As such you can get away with less than the melee hit cap and still be capped with the glyph; having the 3% hit debuff present reduces the amount of hit rating you need even further.
For reference, with Glyph of Taunt and the 3% hit debuff, you need 158 hit rating to cap out taunt. Without the 3% hit debuff, you need 237.
Originally Posted by Vaeflare on things you still can't do today
Way back then, you also couldn’t step up and challenge another guild on your own faction to an all-out War Game in Warsong Gulch, either, because War Games didn’t even exist until shortly after Cataclysm launched.
I've wondered about fixates and taunt DR for a while now, but I've never seen anything definitive about it. Are MB/CS subject to, and add an occurrence to, the taunt DR? I assumed since they're fixates rather than true taunts that they would be on a different DR table, or not subject at all. If they are on the taunt DR table, it's a bit of a gyp since 2/3 of Warrior's taunts are merely fixates. Could one single tank throw a boss into immune DR due to a string of bad luck (ex: Taunt (missed) > MB (parried) > CS (lands) > Taunt (for actual threat) > Immune)?
Pardon my pally ignorance (both of ours count as taunts), but I assume many of you will know this anecdotally.
So, who has dumped Improved Revenge? I was leery of the idea on paper, but after keeping a careful eye on Omen and gaining an intuitive feel for things... yeah, I only press it when I have 5-14 rage now. The only real arguement in its favor, as far as I can see, is if you hotswap out your devestate glyph.
I'm going to try out Imp. Spell Reflect and see how much I get out of the 4% spell miss. This actually works on bosses, right?
Jumai I did exactly that. I dumped Imp. Revenge (used those points in FR) swapped my Revenge Glyph for the Devastate glyph and basically only use revenge in my rotation when I have very little rage and there aren't any other abilities I can really use. However, this may be changing shortly since there was a recent post on the tanking forums saying they were going to buff revenge since people seem to be dropping it altogether.
So, who has dumped Improved Revenge? I was leery of the idea on paper, but after keeping a careful eye on Omen and gaining an intuitive feel for things... yeah, I only press it when I have 5-14 rage now. The only real arguement in its favor, as far as I can see, is if you hotswap out your devestate glyph.
I'm going to try out Imp. Spell Reflect and see how much I get out of the 4% spell miss. This actually works on bosses, right?
Some boss abilities can miss, some can't. It really depends on the boss and how the encounter is designed. Sindragosa's breath, soul shriek and a few other abilities can miss based on our logs.
Some boss abilities can miss, some can't. It really depends on the boss and how the encounter is designed. Sindragosa's breath, soul shriek and a few other abilities can miss based on our logs.
We found the same thing and I'll most likely keep Imp Reflect for now. On average it was only one or two extra misses per pull.
Protip: Lich Slap can be reflected. Just make sure the mob isn't pointed towards the other packs. It was my intention to reflect that spell, I was just keeping it on cooldown to see what can be reflected on those packs.
02/03/10, 10:51 AM
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