Well I didnt include crit since the bonus multiplier would just favour WW vs Slam, and I was trying to make an extreme example where Slam had the best "opportunity". Even with a slow weapon Slam is only better than ww with a glance expected on next swing.
(poleaxe + metagem = + 0.08 crit bonus)
With a 3.4s your white crit would have been (680 + 5600/14 * 3.4) * 2.08 = 4243
One thing I didnt consider anyway was the 10% slam bonus from t7 that skews those results:
3.4s)
Slam = 3755*1.1 - 573 = 4131 - 573 = 3558 (WW = 3356)
3.6s)
Slam = 3952*1.1 - 647 = 4347 - 587 = 3760 (WW = 3569)
So WW>Slam will be obvious only after we loose tier bonus.
Last edited by hellord : 02/16/09 at 9:12 AM.
Reason: math correction, see further posts
As for Slam vs Swing: I believe Impale works only for abilities, not white swings, which means Slam loses less white damage when taking crits into account.
As for Slam vs Heroic Strike: it all depends on how good gear you have. I did some calculations for my gear and I got the following replace-slam-with-HS points (comparing only HS spam vs Slam spam):
- assuming 100 rage from each swing, HS spam is better than Slam spam when final weapon speed (after all haste) is below 1.9s
- assuming 60 rage from each swing, HS is better than Slam below 1.78s
- assuming 30 rage from each swing, HS is better than Slam below 1.56s
A) THE STANCE DANCE COST and E) THE DISAPPEARED TALENT FROM BETA
PvE: Agreed, tanks shouldn't be stance dancing in raids, so it is a null issue. I also agree with Jayde. I run with a prot pally, and his BoS is a godsend, that makes the warrior/pally complementary classes. In this day and age of WoW, if you are a warrior and still having rage generation issues, then you are focusing too much on your avoidance, and not enough on your threat generation.
PvP: At first, it seems the change in dance mechanics would cost more than it is worth to do the dance. The only reason to switch at all would be the quick interrcept/hamstring. But if you are prot, getting extra rage for every dodge/block/parry, (aside for mages/boomkin, and priests smart enough not to put their shadowfiend out) then any class, dual wielders especially, should give you a decent rage pool to work with. TM will be a must, but those 2 changes seems to work off each other, least in prot pvp.
D) THE OP SUNDER ARMOR IN PVP
PvP Side
Prot warrior will suffer a damage decrease against all classes, mostly against cloth users. I'm not sure that other warriors would waste 5 gcds to sunder somebody, but well, I am not sure we needed a nerf in damage output tbh.
Disagree. With sunder armor being changed to a percentage base, it is balancing out two major extremities. On one side, with semi-decent gear (and luck..the mage I hit probaly sucked =D) I can hit a mage for 12k with a Shield Slam. On the other side, 5 sunders doesnt make too much of a difference on prot pallies, defensive DK's, and bears. On a percentage base, clothies will not be so vunerable and I will be able to penetrate tougher classes defenses better than before (especially as we reach 3.1, their armor rating will only rise and rise). Also, it is a pain to waste 5 swings on devastate, the glyph works wonders.
Edit: Example: 3925 armor gone w/ 5 sunders..now say your prot dk has 32k armor..he now has 28075 with current sunders..With a 20% armor reduction..that 32k armor (x .8) becomes 25600. A 2475 difference...Shoot, put myself in the formula, 25k armor today becomes 21075. With 3.1 I'll have 20k armor remaining after being sundered. As gear progresses..damage against mail wearers shouldn't change too much. If anything, rogues I dominate now will have a bit more cushion, but not as much as clothies. The balance Blizz is going for is for rock to not to be OP against scissor.
Thank you for the insight. I hope my prot perspective has been helpful.
Sidenote: Might be useless mentioning, but nothing has power like numbers on forums. I talked to a GM today, asking for their opinion on a suggestion. They said GM's are not allowed to give their opinions on any suggestions given to them by players directly, and proceeded to direct me to the suggestion forum. I said, "Ok, well here's my idea..."
Endless Rage Potion
Req Alchemy (400)
Req lvl 80
Gives 20-35 rage.
"Sanctioned for Arenas."
Same cooldown as the other endless potions, well all pots. Mats would be 20 Mighty Rage Potions, 20 Fireleaf, 1 Enchanted Vial. This would not only spur interest in different proffesion choice combos, as well as help warriors in moments of needing a quick up. Could be applied to tanking, to pvp.
The GM then responds, "You have two options on how to handle this. You can go on the forums, or I can have you sign a legal statement to Blizzard with you having to agree to the terms listed. Then, it will be sent straight to the developers." I figured it would be a fax, but the GM copied pasted the contract in game. I would be boncing off the walls if this shows up in 3.1.
Last edited by Jrk : 02/20/09 at 8:08 PM.
Reason: typo
* Titan's Grip (Tier 11) now reduces physical damage you deal by 10%.
Reported by MMO-Champion Undocumented Changes. I'm the only one seeing this as a bit abusive? 10% physical damage is 10% less overall damage. Mates, this hurts.
The GM then responds, "You have two options on how to handle this. You can go on the forums, or I can have you sign a legal statement to Blizzard with you having to agree to the terms listed. Then, it will be sent straight to the developers." I figured it would be a fax, but the GM copied pasted the contract in game. I would be boncing off the walls if this shows up in 3.1.
Reported by MMO-Champion Undocumented Changes. I'm the only one seeing this as a bit abusive? 10% physical damage is 10% less overall damage. Mates, this hurts.
According to Blizz, they are not only lowering warrior dps, but also nerfing other classes. So overall we should still be on pair with rogues, mages, warlocks and hunter.
1) No one is interested in 1h+ fights. I didn't want to say that prot has to be THE PvP specc, but if you go for FACTS like mobility, cc, survivability you have to rate prot higher, if you go for burst you have to rate fury and arms higher. And most of the arnea games atm are DMG games where the opponent healer is cc , sucked out of mana or unable to heal against the inc dmg (personal opinion).
I just want to correct an important fact. Prots got way better burst then fury and arms. I already did 25K SS at cloths with less then 300 Resilience. SBV trinkets, SB, Recklessness, improved Disarm and the Prot Enrage effect work fine combined.
I just want to correct an important fact. Prots got way better burst then fury and arms. I already did 25K SS at cloths with less then 300 Resilience. SBV trinkets, SB, Recklessness, improved Disarm and the Prot Enrage effect work fine combined.
Also you'd have to be pretty much in full BV gear, have the clothie sundered and he would have to, for reasons unknown, melee you to proc enrage. So sure, Prot burst may be higher (though I have yet to come even close to a 25k SS, got a screenshot of your gear you did this with?) but it's way harder to set up, especially if people are smart and leave you alone.
Also you'd have to be pretty much in full BV gear, have the clothie sundered and he would have to, for reasons unknown, melee you to proc enrage. So sure, Prot burst may be higher (though I have yet to come even close to a 25k SS, got a screenshot of your gear you did this with?) but it's way harder to set up, especially if people are smart and leave you alone.
I created my own gear just for PvP full of BV and STR. It worked pretty well until a good 2k rating ( before arena rating got patched ). I knew that they would ignore me when i'd play with a healer so i chose a Prot / Prot comp. But somehow people started to understand our strategy and focused my partner who had no BV gear and i just sometimes won 1 v 2 situations. I'll lookup some screenshots but this spec won't work in arena at higher ratings. They will ignore you or outplay you and will win easily.
Also you'd have to be pretty much in full BV gear, have the clothie sundered and he would have to, for reasons unknown, melee you to proc enrage. So sure, Prot burst may be higher (though I have yet to come even close to a 25k SS, got a screenshot of your gear you did this with?) but it's way harder to set up, especially if people are smart and leave you alone.
Warlocks' pets will trigger it, Shadow Priests' Shadowfiend as well if they are dumb enough to put it out. Mages...the only way a mage would really proc it is if they do Mirror Image and you silence one of their clones. I haven't gone too far into Arenas to be honest, waiting for the full set, but when I tried to do 3's, the one thing that was clear is that they are going to ignore you unless you give them a reason, like nearly 3 shotting one of their squishies right off the bat, then catching them all in a shockwave. If they are foolish and view you as a major threat, they will turn to try deal with you. But if you can't control your rage generation and output the damage needed, without being hit, then you're a tin can.
Disruptor, do you stack any Armor Pen? Or straight Str? With what I am looking at, my gems slots can go any way, being hit & crit capped. I posted a set/spec on the pvp forum if you'd care to compare & discuss. I found my favorite team for 2v2 would be a ret palaldin. He has Kings, I have BS. I'm a tank, he has a bubble and heals if need be, though the matches went to quick most of the time that heals were not needed. Both wearing plate and capable of burst damage.
With DR taken off of charge in 3.1..things will get interesting.
Last edited by Jrk : 02/27/09 at 1:06 PM.
Knowledge works better when applied...like sunscreen.
Well, since now battle stance gets 10% arp I guess I'd prefer an interrupt in there rather than OP and rend in zerk:P
Anyway they won't change rage mechanics, but we can hope they implement the "autoswitch" so theorically we could get rid of lag and have all our abilities usable without a macro.
02/15/09, 9:11 AM
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