This buff is not really gamebreaking even if it can be nice.
I doubt that warriors will be stacked to chain this buff, at least not really at this stage.
ArP is mainly a buff to warrior themselves, possibly good for some dk spec too but other classes aren't really fussed.
You have to consider you would stop dpsing for 1.5 secs for the cast (that is practically loose one white swing with bl) and then the 10 seconds duration is really very low.
There are too many things to consider to understand how much can such buff raise raid dps. I guess it's around 5% physical damage for 10 seconds.

Warriors do 80-85% of mitigated damage, rogues and dks do around 75-85% (depending on specs), shamans and pallies do some more than half of their damage as physical mitigated damage. Hunters if not survival have a high % too, Surv will have much less benefit. Tanks are doing much less damage than dpsrs, so the increase will be not so much (but threat should go up aswell).

We should wait 3.1 to be released before making such calculations since it mostly depends on specs/debuffs present in raid.

Yea, I'm uncertain it would be worth the cast time either...However, what came to mind is hitting battle stance, recklessness, then shattering throw and getting a few really nice Executes in. Hard to say at this point, but possibly fun to try or maybe to just see some Thaddius quality numbers

I strongly doubt that Shattering throw is going to make people stack 4-6+++ Warriors, but it will surely make bringing 2 DPS Warriors alot more viable.

20% armor ignore for the whole raid for 10 seconds, even if the warrior potentially loses some dps, is pretty significant.

Let's wait for the finalization of the Ulduar loot lists and see what levels of armor reduction the average raider will wear before we can plug the numbers in.

Latest build

Arms

* Taste for Blood now gives you a 33/66/100% chance of allowing the use of your Overpower ability for 5 secs whenever your Rend ability causes damage. This talent will not occur more than once every 6 sec.

Fury

* Titan's Grip now reduces your physical damage done by 10% when dual-wielding two-handed weapons.

Glyph

* Glyph of Heroic Strike - You gain 10 rage when you critically strike with your Heroic Strike ability. (Old - Increases the critical strike chance of Heroic Strike by 5%.)
* Glyph of Last Stand - Reduces the cooldown of your Last Stand ability by 1 min. (Old - Also reduced the maximum health gained by 10%.)

Atleast our glyph is back!

1H in offhand then? That might be interesting. I'd say its rather clear signal from Blizzard to offhand 1H weapon.

Bit early to jump to that conclusion without testing....if they wanted Titan's Grip to be mainhand-only they would (presumably) just make Titan's Grip "allows you to always equip a two-handed axe/sword/mace in your main hand".

I dont see new build on EU ptr yet. Will try Armageddon/Last Laugh combo.

It's likely just a wording difference. I'm sure they intend for the penalty to affect you as long as the combination of weapons/shields you are using requires TG. I.e. 2h+shield, 2h+2h, 2h+1h should be affected. It shouldn't affect 1h+1h or 1h+shield.

Also, sucks that HS glyph was changed back. It was a buff, even if all the noobs crying about it didn't know it(thinking back on the Bloodsurge change here...)

I hope the fact that they reverted the HS Glyph doesn't mean they gave up on redesigning the HS mechanic/rage mechanics.

Be careful what you wi.....think of.

So yep. Seems they gave up for this content patch atleast. Maybe we'll see it in 3.2, unfortunately that'll probably be a few months down the line.

That is just so incorrect I don't even know what to say.

It is indeed a wording change, logged onto PTR and put a 1h in my OH, it's still having it's damage reduced by 10%.

Then maybe try to figure it out before posting, because frankly, bashing him like that is really uncalled for. So far spreadsheets prove superiority of 5% glyph over 10 rage one, and while I understand it might come to personal preference, making replies like that , isnt exactly productive.

Yes the 10 rage glyph vastly increases heroic damage (increases frequencby by around 12%, although at 5% less damage (counting deep wounds impale etc)), but higher flurry uptime seems to more then offset it.

I dont want to dwelve into pointless discussion anymore, we have a glyph that Blizzard gave us and thats it.

It may be tough but I'll take a crack at it.

Far too often rage management, the true datum by which most dps warriors should be judged, is ignored for numbers like DPS. Different from any other class we operate much like a sports car. A sports car of which we have virtually no control over the amount of "gas" being supplied to our engine. What we are in control of is the gear in which our car is running. We can shift down or shift up in gears depending on this always variable "power level". Other classes operate like a boulder rolling through a maze on a hill of the same exact gradient. More or less as long as they go left when they should, and right when they should, they will successfully navigate this maze and reach the bottom of the hill.

Personal preference being something thrown around a lot in lieu of "Math says one thing, but I think\feel\observe another" I can see how someone would say, 'prove' on paper, that 5% more crit from our most oft used attack is going to be a buff over 10 rage refunded on a crit from this same attack. This attack being one that by its very definition operates in a 'rage negative' when calculated against what the white hit would net us before it was converted into a heroic strike.

So we have math that says in essence that our current rage from which we're already using 15 to use heroic strike, not to mention the appropriate level of rage "lost" by not allowing the white hit to land, means this attacks "costs" us (WhiteRageGain + 15). So we've 'lost' 45 rage (variable number) using this attack on paper over just letting our white through.

The problem with this math is that heroic strike is our Goldie Locks attack. We don't want to get to 100 rage, and we don't want to dip at any point below the rage cost of our next ability up off CD, WW or BT, plus the cost of a heroic strike. So we have a floor of 37 or 42 rage (since everyone picks up 3\3 heroic strike) and the obvious ceiling of 100.

Going back to the sports car metaphor, very rarely will we find ourselves in a "George" like scenario where the gas pedal is pushed to the floor for the entire encounter. We need to find ways to modulate this random flow of power into a steady output, much the same way a race car going around a track has to. Again, we need to find our Goldie Locks solution. This paltry 58 rage between our potential floor and ceiling, and us not knowing what is next in our power gain, means that quite often no matter what we do we will find ourselves colliding with this ceiling. We can also of course find ourselves colliding with the floor as well, with the much more obvious consequences of globals and ability usage lost.

Within our uncontrolled system is our own personal throttle. Heroic strike allows us to modulate these gains by converting this excess rage into damage(our upshifts and downshifts in the sports car). The problem is when these two systems break down, either by our easing up on our heroic throttle coupled with a heavy influx of random power resulting in damage(speed) lost, or we use our throttle improperly when coupled with less than ideal power gains ( misses and glances ) resulting also in damage lost.

So our objective is quite obviously to limit losses of any kind be it rage that could be converted into damage, or ability "uptime" lost. 10 rage refunded on an attack that we use 2x as much as BT, or 4x as much as WW, guarantees us longer steady cycles for our DPS rotation. The four heroics we use in between WW's, coupled with a BT means we need 78 rage to use these attacks. With a 50% crit rate on heroic ( conservative even without the glyph ) the 10 rage refunded glyph rotation needs 58 rage. Meaning in the nightmare scenario of your off hand missing two or three times in a row, the current glyph rotation can proceed from 100 rage, our absolute max potential energy, and complete a full rotation beginning right after a whirlwind and ending with a whirlwind and still have rage to heroic strike should you believe your next off hand hit will connect, and hopefully crit ( given that at some point somewhere, the math has to work in our favor after a bad streak ) allowing you to maintain a higher DPS rotation. In short, your rotation is far more resilient and able to absorb the ups and downs that come with our variable sports car power, with a far more controlled throttle.

Greater assumptions, or liberties, can be made with the rotation that can on the fly decide to heroic strike again at lower rage levels ( our best flurry maintenance attack regardless of glyph ) vs the one that can't. Sitting at 40 rage I have a 25% chance of heroic striking twice in the three seconds before being able to use my BT. I have a 50% chance to do so at all. Glyph of 5% crit has a 0% chance.

If we take one warrior who does 6500 DPS, and compare him to another that does 6300 DPS with equal gear, one would conclude that the warrior doing 6500 DPS is better. Yet what if the warrior doing 6300 DPS had an usually high miss rate, or a lower than average crit rate? Without a doubt the warrior doing 6300 damage managed his rage better, and was in high gear when he could and low gear when he had to due to his RNG. This player will obviously be the one posting the better DPS in our analysis as our sample size grows. Yet unfortunately this is exactly what a spreadsheet does, it examines something in the abstract, in snapshot form, without the highs and lows of miss streaks and crit streaks.

Given that we will most often have a middle of the road amount of misses, crits, miss streaks, and crit streaks in relation to our gear levels, we want the rotation that has the most give in it. This allows the warrior learned in rage management the ability to capitalize on the trough of our rage gains in a manner more productive and conducive to the highest possible damage.

GC himself extremely confused about TG penalty and its ramifications - MMO-Champion BlueTracker - GC, Please Clarify the New TG Wording

Now, it's looks like the penalty will apply the second you are equipping a two-handed-weapon. However, it might not apply if you are wearing a shield in your offhand. That would be odd though.

The crit. glyph had strengths in the following two ways:

1. As you get Ulduar gear (and beyond) your rage generation becomes far better and the value of the crit. glyph improves while the rage glyph diminishes.

2. During Bloodlust/Heroism paired with other cooldowns like Death Wish, racials, trinkets, potions, etc., you have an unlimited rage environment and the rage return glyph is near useless, but the crit. glyph significantly increases your damage during this phase.

I think eventually the crit. glyph would far surpass the current glyph. I think that the poster might not have conveyed his point with any clear evidence, but that the point is still valid.

Other notes:

1. We managed rage just fine without the HS glyph when we had faaaar less rage generation(BC). If you have less rage, you HS less, not hard(and it certainly doesn't require an essay on rage management to understand, thanks other guy).

2. People were making a critical mistake in assuming HSing 10% more often had to be superior to HS critting 5% more often, because 10% > 5% amirite? Thing is, turning a MH attack into a HS is much less of an increase in damage compared to turning a HS into a HS crit.

3. In current gear levels, we have sufficient rage generation and HS use that the crit glyph was superior. This will only have become more and more true as we moved to Ulduar and beyond. We'd have pressed HS less and done more damage doing it; it's shocking how misinformation and "personal feeling" somehow convinced the entire community that the glyph change was a bad change. Oh well.

1. You also had much more efficient Heroic Strikes and rage was not nearly as spikey due to weapon speed. Also, how many fights were we given so much extra rage due to all of the incoming raid damage? Quite many, and the only comparable fights right now would be Sapphiron and to a lesser extent KT. I'm not even considering Thaddius.
2. Again you're looking at DPS in a vacuum where your rage is consistent when in actual play it's not. If rage was unlimited your assumption would be correct.
3. In our current gear levels before the TG nerf either glyph would be good but you would end up with an even spiker rage generation than what you already had using the 5% crit. People keep mentioning "sufficient rage" and "unlimited rage" but that just isn't true unless you don't care about missing instant cooldowns by a second or two. There are very few instances right now where we had enough rage that management could be thrown out the window. Sometimes I wonder if we are all playing the same game.

As Morsexy said, it doesn't matter if one guy is doing 6500 and another 6300 during an RNG luck fest. The guy that's doing 6500 most likely isn't going to be doing that consistently on the same fight given an indentical raid setup.

1. HS efficiency has hardly changed at all, don't be ridiculous. Rage was just as spiky, since weapon speeds have pretty much stayed the same when you factor in: significantly higher flurry uptime, 20% haste from WF, more haste on gear(7-10%), and 3% raid-wide haste buff.

2. It's not an assumption, and it has nothing to do with rage consistency or looking at "DPS in a vacuum." What does that garbage even mean? It's a fact that turning a MH swing into a HS is not nearly as much of a damage increase as a HS becoming a HS crit. That's just obvious math that a lot of people who compare the glyphs are completely forgetting.

3. You misunderstand me, completely. By sufficient rage generation, I mean that if you did not press HS, the odds of you lacking the rage to use WW/BT/Slam instantly when needed is incredibly low, literally on the order of 1 in millions. What that implies is virtually any instance of rage starvation is entirely caused by HS use, or I should say, overuse. Also, I should have clarified. When I said "in our current gear levels", I meant after the 10% TG nerf even, so you can take those words out of my mouth.

The 10% TG nerf, as well as the glyph change would simply lower our excess rage, and therefore lower our HS use since we would less frequently have excess rage to burn. It would take over a 50% nerf to our damage before our rage generation started to no longer be "sufficient." What I also don't understand is why you would think the 10 rage glyph somehow alleviates rage starvation or spikiness in any way. If you are using HS, you are obviously in a situation where due to rage spikes, you have excess rage to burn. If you are suffering from a miss/non-crit streak, you wouldn't be using HS anyways, and the glyph doesn't make any difference.

The new glyph was a buff, pure and simple. Spreadsheets will confirm it. Simulators will confirm it. Actual raids and testing would have confirmed it had it been possible to compare that change alone directly. I'm really, really annoyed that people like you and thousands of other whiners on the main forums complaining how it was some huge nerf got it reverted when it was one of the few things that would at least partially counteract the 10% TG penalty.

Looking at his later posts he cleared it up and it seems to back up your testing:

# Talents

* Arms
o Blood Frenzy improved to 2/4% increased damage.
o Deep Wounds: The damage done by this talent no longer receives modifications from effects that increase or decrease damage done by a percentage. The base weapon damage used in the calculation will still be modified by those effects.
o Improved Intercept and Weapon Mastery have once again swapped places in the talent tree.
o New Talent: Juggernaut: Grants the warrior the ability to Charge while in combat.
o Taste for Blood: Will now proc 33/66/100% of the time with a 6-second cooldown.
o Unrelenting Assault: Now also increases the damage of Overpower and Revenge by 10/20%, and causes Overpower (when used to attack a casting target) to decrease the effectiveness of all the target’s non-physical damage and healing by 25/50% for 6 seconds. Tooltip and visual updated.
* Fury
o Titan’s Grip: While you have a two-handed weapon equipped in one hand, your physical damage done is reduced by 10%.
* Protection
o Last Stand: Cooldown reduced to 3 minutes.


I really thought these were fake, but they are on the official page, wow, just wow.