Official 3.1 changes and discussion - Page 2

Morsexy · 02/24/09, 6:00 AM

I've Improved my Missile Speeds!

Chardonnay · 02/24/09, 6:14 AM

Originally Posted by Speeder

As long as we don't see whole picture it's better to wait. I believe other changes will offset TG nerf.

I've seen rumors about berserker stance giving a +10% damage modifier. That could explain the TG nerf pretty much.

♦ Birdemani · 02/24/09, 6:23 AM

Originally Posted by Speeder

As long as we don't see whole picture it's better to wait. I believe other changes will offset TG nerf.

Considering that it's a flat 10% reduction to all our damage and a drastic nerf to rage generation (don't forget about glancings); there would need to be very drastic changes overall to the class to demand this. I was hoping the paradigm to penalize warriors for any positive they gain would finally be phased out with this patch but they have reverted back to form with this patch iteration. It's not an elegant solution by any means and I would have preferred to see a change almost anywhere else in the tree.

Borodin · 02/24/09, 6:25 AM

Reserving any kind of judgement since there's so little announced and what there is lacks context: e.g. we know there's changes to Stances, Heroic Strike, possibly Rage on Parry/Dodge and a lot more for Arms.

Alas the way these notes were announced by Blizzard just feeds the Forum Trolls - they might have been better with the entry "To be announced" rather than showing so little, one of which on the face of it is a large nerf (but I'm quite prepared to believe Berzerker Stance will change to include a default damage boost).

Speeder · 02/24/09, 6:32 AM

Originally Posted by Birdemani

Considering that it's a flat 10% reduction to all our damage and a drastic nerf to rage generation (don't forget about glancings); there would need to be very drastic changes overall to the class to demand this. I was hoping the paradigm to penalize warriors for any positive they gain would finally be phased out with this patch but they have reverted back to form with this patch iteration. It's not an elegant solution by any means and I would have preferred to see a change almost anywhere else in the tree.

Yes it's not elegant, to say more it's dirty change, but I really, really hope they aren't so uncreative to just add flat 10% penalty to TG.

Tyvi · 02/24/09, 6:34 AM

Originally Posted by Xabrophazon

Classes: General[/b]

* Tricks of the Trade, Enrage

Just realized that Prot Warriors are going to be the only class that don't get the TotT damage bonus while tanking now. Simple oversight or part of the plan to remove the Enrage portion of Defensive Stance so they can balance stances properly?

Mojzin · 02/24/09, 6:44 AM

It would seem to me that there will be major changes to warrior stances, probably to offset the 10% TG penalty (10% buff to Berserker stance) and maybe remove damage penalty from Defensive stance (along with removing enrage).

Before any hasty reactions are made, it's probably best to wait and see.

Djchrono · 02/24/09, 6:48 AM

Originally Posted by Liar

Can anyone on the PTR check how much health the new Flask of Stoneblood is? Also could you please check if they buffed the Block Rating items like Wall of Terror, Shadow of the Ghoul to it's intended level?

750hp on the Flask
No change to Wall of Terror.

Iofe · 02/24/09, 7:16 AM

Originally Posted by Mojzin

It would seem to me that there will be major changes to warrior stances, probably to offset the 10% TG penalty (10% buff to Berserker stance) and maybe remove damage penalty from Defensive stance (along with removing enrage).

Before any hasty reactions are made, it's probably best to wait and see.

That would mean some serious buffage to arms then, to offset the fact that battle stance will be even weaker when compared to zerker stance.

But ye, time will tell. It sure is exiting though.

Alithiel · 02/24/09, 7:17 AM

Originally Posted by Djchrono

750hp on the Flask

Any Alchemist who can confirm how much health is gained with the Mixology bonus? Just wondering if they've tweaked things to bring the Alchemy bonus more in line with other professions...

Bangin · 02/24/09, 7:41 AM

My biggest problem with Titan's Grip penalties of any kind is they are not removed while a 1h+Shield is equipped. I don't see why a Fury Warrior off tank has to lose 10% of his TPS even while not wielding a 2h. Blizzard does a lot of nonsensical things, like adding a threat component to Tactical Mastery (which is obviously for off spec OTing) and then reducing TPS output via a deep Fury talent.

I'm sure the 10% nerf is a ruse though. You start off with 10% and once people cry out against such a harsh nerf it is changed to 5%, which they likely intended to implement from the begining.

Mojzin · 02/24/09, 8:06 AM

Most likely the 10% will only apply when dual wielding twohanded weapons, just like the hit penalty used to be. Otherwise it wouldn't make much sense. It is just too early to speculate much about the nerf before the promised other changes to warriors come out and before we know just how good Ulduar drops will be.

Bangin · 02/24/09, 8:17 AM

The moment I got on the PTR I wanted to see if the 10% Penalty was functional or not. I assumed that if it were actually implemented, and not just a tooltip change, it may be more likely or less likely, depending on the results, to be a realistic change.

I filled out my spec (leaving out only TG), then began wacking a target dummy without any mods. I noticed 1300-1500 swings and 2700-3000 crits without TG.

I then specced into TG and was assuming I would see a noticeable drop. No noticeable drop occurred, in fact it seemed as if I was hitting harder just having specced into it. 1400-1650 swings and 2800-3100 crits? (huh??)

To make sure it wasn't RNG I spent the entire time spam right clicking on my buffs to prevent Flurry, Procs, and FotFF from stacking. I decided to get recount onto the PTR for a better test:

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y15...sting/noTG.jpg
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y15...ting/yesTG.jpg

100,000 Damage is a small sample so I know it is still subject to RNG. Procs and buffs of all types were removed and did not have any effect on the testing at least.

From the test it appeared, up until the end when I got a miss streak, to actually be a 10% damage increase.

I've been playing around with it a little bit more and I feel confident enough to say the tooltip is either:

A) Wrong, and in fact supposed to be a 10% increase.
or
B) Only a tooltip, and the 10% decrease has not been implemented.

Try it yourself. It looks like good news so far. No nerfs and possibly a buff?

Again, still too small a sample to tell.

Speeder · 02/24/09, 8:26 AM

Originally Posted by Bangin

...

Again, still too small a sample to tell.

Hope you didnt just find a bug that instead of decreasing TG increases dmg

Borodin · 02/24/09, 9:02 AM

Apparrently the TG -10% Damage entry has now been removed from the Patch Notes. Might return but in the context of more complete patch notes rather than what the larger community perceived as an isolated nerf.

hellord · 02/24/09, 9:05 AM

100,000 Damage is a small sample so I know it is still subject to RNG. Procs and buffs of all types were removed and did not have any effect on the testing at least.

From the test it appeared, up until the end when I got a miss streak, to actually be a 10% damage increase.

100k damage is all about rng.
Your average melee damage is really too similar to be a 10% increase or decrease.
Anyway you didnt test with 2 weapons equipped to check average mh damage did you?
Seems it doesnt do anything with 1 weapon equipped, we can guess it does nothing unless you use 2x2handers.

I just hope this isnt what they plan. A flat 10% damage reduction is a dps killer.
Your deathwish would be only 18%, and even a 10% damage buff from berz (that I don't see happen tbh) would result in an overall 1% damage lost (0.9+0.9*0.1).
If this is multiplied with 2h spec the loss is even bigger.

We could use data with 2x2h, 1x2h+1x1h, 2x1h ,1x1h+shield, 1x2h+shield to compare results and see if there is a loss in some circumstances. 100k damage is not really enough samples, especially if you don't try every possible weapon setup.

I don't expect them to release this without compensation, but I just wonder where will they make up for the difference.

Goatsey · 02/24/09, 9:19 AM

The 1% damage loss would probably be made up by the 2% increase to blood frenzy/savage combat debuff on the target. If the change goes through it is most likely to balance this change + a flat 10% increase in damage to zerker, although this is all speculative as there has been no announcement by blizz (as far as I am aware) that berserker stance would receive this 10% damage buff.

Along with changes to armor penetration, and very possibly haste changes the dps increase of a TG warrior would be massive and so this nerf seems only natural to keep us at our current place in dps. The unfortunate backlash of this though is that it makes us even more buff reliant than we already were and will hurt warriors with worse gear and in 5-mans the most.

Alator · 02/24/09, 9:24 AM

Originally Posted by Borodin

Apparrently the TG -10% Damage entry has now been removed from the Patch Notes. Might return but in the context of more complete patch notes rather than what the larger community perceived as an isolated nerf.

I don't believe it was ever IN the patch notes, the only reason it came to the fore was because it was picked up in the tooltip in-game.

There's a post from Slorkuz on the EU forums indicating that there's a strong possibility that the 10% reduction is not the end of it all.

I interpret what he's saying as "Yes, there's a 10% reduction, and No, that's not the only adjustment we're going to be making". So the nerf could get worse (unlikely) or they could be compensating by means of the previously mentioned buff to Berzerker stance.

nfw · 02/24/09, 9:33 AM

Originally Posted by Ultramax

Glyph of Spell Reflection (Class: Warrior) -- Reduces the cooldown on Spell Reflection by 1 sec.
Glyph of Shield Wall (Class: Warrior) -- Reduces the cooldown on Shield Wall by 3 min, but Shield Wall now only reduces damage taken by 40%.

The spell reflect glyph seems to indicate some sort of spell reflect gimmick in Uld, maybe I am just optimistic. But 1 second is negligible

I like the shield wall glyph, with talent it is 1 minute cooldown, gives us more active role in damage mitigation

Speeder · 02/24/09, 9:44 AM

Looking at 'potential' TG nerf, I wonder if we really do too much damage , or it's just short kill times that inflated numbers.

Disruptor · 02/24/09, 9:57 AM

It is maybe a bit off topic but did anybody test ArPen yet? Is it added to the 25% of debuffs ( SA , FF ) or calculated with the reduced Armor? Because this might be a reason for the TG nerf since regardless of the maths ArPen gets a huge buff and if it is added to the 25% the DPS boost is ridiculous.

Jayde · 02/24/09, 10:06 AM

I find the Shield Wall glyph to be a bit ridiculous. Hard to not see it becoming "required" due to the huge difference between 60% every 5 mins and 40% every 1 min.

nfw · 02/24/09, 10:15 AM

Originally Posted by Jayde

I find the Shield Wall glyph to be a bit ridiculous. Hard to not see it becoming "required" due to the huge difference between 60% every 5 mins and 40% every 1 min.

I don't see it ridiculous at all, it's not free and requires 2 points in a talent that nobody takes right now, so there is a tradeoff somewhere.

Alithiel · 02/24/09, 10:22 AM

Originally Posted by nfw

Glyph of Shield Wall (Class: Warrior) -- Reduces the cooldown on Shield Wall by 3 min, but Shield Wall now only reduces damage taken by 40%.

I guess this is supposed to be a fix to make Warriors more viable to tank Sarth +3D...

nfw · 02/24/09, 10:32 AM

Looks like paladins one hand spec got changed to 3 ranks for 10%, I'd expect the same for warriors