I'm working on the warrior module at the moment and I wanted to start the thread in the classforum to get some feedback and some clarification on certain mechanics of warrior talents, in which way talents effect attacks etc.
Unbridled Wrath
Anyone some links about the PPM? Searched forums, googled, but can't find anything about the PPM.
Trauma, Rampage, Wrecking Crew
Which proc off every crit, and which only from auto_attack/heroic_strike.
Bladestorm
Auto_attack continues while 'storming'?
I just trigger a 6.0s gcd with it, so all other actions are blocked.
Deep Wounds, oh what a bitch.
So when the warrior crits, the associated weapon creates a bleed DoT. Am I right that the weapon_damage ( unnormalized [MAXDMG + MINDMG]/2 )contribution is with all buffs?
So Death Wish buffs DW, because it buffs the weapon_damage? Blood Frenzy/Savage Combat are target debuffs, those also increase DW indirectly by buffing the weapon_damage, right?
Sword spec proc
This counts as a white hit, which generates rage, and does not reset the swingtimer?
What if you have HS queued up and get a Swordproc from MS/Execute/whatever, does the Swordproc get converted into a HS, or is it just hit normaly and the next mainhand melee gets the HS
Bloodthirst, Execute
Those two do not scale with weapon_damage at all, but they get all buffs from the main hand?
Two-hand specc = +2/4/6% damage on those?
Please bear in mind that this module is in a very early state and I don't have a level 80 warrior to hop on and test things ad hoc.
It would also be nice if you can link me to posts with BiS gear for Fury and Arms, so i can add the stats to the profiles.
Some I can answer off the top of my head:
Trauma/WC/Rampage:
These all proc off every crit, not just autoattack/HS.
Autoattack continues while bladestorm is active, but you can't use any abilities(including heroic strikes), so make sure you disable HS while BS is active in addition to having the 6s GCD.
Deep Wounds indirectly benefits from all character %dmg buffs like 2h spec/wrecking crew/sanctified retribution since the MH damage range is boosted, which boosts DW damage. Buuut, Blood Frenzy/Savage Combat do not increase DW damage in any way, ever since they made the change that DW doesn't benefit from %dmg effects to prevent double dipping. Since it doesn't buff your character sheet damage range, and DW doesn't benefit from even +dmg% debuffs, it gets nothing.
BT/Execute both do not use a weapon, but do benefit from 2h Spec and are able to proc all MH weapon enchants. Oddly enough, Rend does not benefit from 2h wep spec, even though it benefits from everything else. I'm not sure if rend can proc enchants.
Deep wounds does damage every second on the second after the last critical attack. Each time there is a new critical attack, the timer resets and the previous "undone" damage is piled into a buffer. Deep wounds damage does 1/6 of its buffer every time it is allowed to tick. For each crit, 48% of your average weapon damage range (the one that is displayed in the paper doll in the game) is placed into this buffer and the tick cycle resets.
There are a lot of common misconceptions and misunderstandings about how DWounds actually works. A lot of players make the mistake in thinking that the higher the ticks become the more damage DWounds actually does, and that having the large stack fall off is a DPS loss. This notion is incorrect, and I will explain why. The reason why a deep wound tick gets large in size is due to the buffer being fed into a large amount. This occurs when you get crits back to back with fewer than 1 second in between. This prevents any ticks from occuring and allows the buffer to be fed. The higher the buffer, the higher the tick. However, if the buffer is increasing in size over time with new crits, this means that ticks are occuring less frequently. If the ticks are large they are happening less often. If the ticks are small, they are happening more frequently. No matter what, if you crit, the DWounds damage for that particular crit will occur whether it is 1 second from the time of crit or 20 seconds from the time of crit for the same damage.
Here's an example. Let's assume your average damage range is 2083.3333... Therefore, everytime you crit, 1000 damage is placed in the buffer. Below is a table of timestamps of a possible scenario involving deep wounds, and what ticks will occur.
time
event
buffer size
tick size
0.00
crit
1000
0.46
crit
2000
1.46
tick
1667
333
1.54
crit
2667
1.87
crit
3667
2.78
crit
4667
3.78
tick
3889
778
4.78
tick
3111
778
5.78
tick
2333
778
5.99
crit
3333
6.99
tick
2778
555
7.99
tick
2222
556
8.99
tick
1667
555
9.99
tick
1111
556
10.99
tick
556
555
11.99
tick
0
556
Note that there were 6 crits, which means that 6000 damage should have been dealt. If you add up all of the tick sizes on the table, you get 6000. Tick size became high due to critting more than once within the same second multiple times. No damage was gained or lost due to this, either. The only potential loss of DWounds damage can occur at the target's death or immunity to damage. Say for example, the target dies at time 10.5, 1111 Dwounds damage is lost. Any undone damage that is still in the buffer at the point of target death or immunity will not be dealt and will dissapear, causing a dps loss. So in theory, at the end of the fight the smaller the buffer the less damage will be wasted. This affects crit rate and haste in a somewhat minor and negative fashion when considering DWounds based on the length of the fight with the target.
A sword spec can turn into a heroic strike as an old school windfury could do so. They are similar. But it's really incredibly stupid (spamming heroic strike at 400 APM as arms?) to try and do that. Sword spec is exactly a white hit, and cannot proc off itself, or before 6 seconds after a previous sword spec. An off-hand attack triggering sword spec will do damage from the offhand.
I'm not really sure how this action queue works. Is this a priority list for GCD decisions? I.e. since execute is last, is it the lowest priority while DW/Recklessness are high priority?
If so, it should be more like:
food, type = dragonfin_filet //much better than fish feast with 20% str imp zerk stance and 10% str from kings
HS, if (rage >= 42 and health > 20) OR (rage >= 75 and health_percentage <= 20) //this is decided separately from the GCD right?
WW if rage >= 25 AND (health > 20 OR (health <= 20 AND rage <= 95))
BT if rage >= 30 AND (health > 20 OR (health <= 20 AND rage <= 75))
Slam if bloodsurge = 1 AND rage >= 15 AND (health > 20 OR (health <= 20 AND rage <= 45))
Death Wish if rage >= 10
Execute if rage >= 15 - talents.impexecute //or however you check imp execute
Recklessness
Above execute range it's basically: WW > BT > Bloodsurge Slam > DW > Recklessness, HS MH swings when over 42 rage(42-12 leaves you with 30 rage, prevents lost abilities). DW/Recklessness end up after WW/BT/Slam because there are plenty of holes in the rotation to slide them into that don't delay damaging abilities.
In execute range, this becomes: WW(if rage <= 95) > BT(if rage <= 75) > Slam(if rage <= 45) > DW > Execute > Recklessness. The rage checks on WW/BT/Slam are breakpoints(can be tweaked a lot) to prevent using those abilities when you're sitting at high rage and just losing tons of it to the cap. DW still takes priority over execute since it would never be used since it costs less rage than execute if it didn't come first. Recklessness is only used when there's nothing else to do(usually just when swings miss after an execute and you don't have the rage for anything).
HS can still be used in execute range if a MH swing is going to land when you're already at high rage(75 is just an arbitrary number, can be tweaked like the other GCD ability breakpoints), since a lot of that rage will just certainly be lost to spiking over the cap anyways. This happens relatively infrequently since you'll be burning so much rage off with execute, but is possible.
Recklessness is usually used in execute phase to land at least 1 100 rage execute and two other high damage abilities (best if you can get 3 executes high rage in a row)
A sword spec can turn into a heroic strike as an old school windfury could do so. They are similar. But it's really incredibly stupid (spamming heroic strike at 400 APM as arms?) to try and do that. Sword spec is exactly a white hit, and cannot proc off itself, or before 6 seconds after a previous sword spec. An off-hand attack triggering sword spec will do damage from the offhand.
So swordspecc can only procc from normal autoa_attack/heroic_strike?
And yea, that's the way I did Deep Wounds, rolling and the tick timer resets on each crit (not like e.g. Deadly Poison)
@Rallik:
The action strings are kind of an priority queue, with every action having general and special options
General options like:
bloodlust=1: Only use this spell when under the effect of bloodlust
bloodlust=-1: The other way round, only use it when not under the effect of bloodlust
time_to_die>=20, time_to_die<=50: Only use when the estimated time of the mob dying is less or more then the value
health_percentage>=20, health_percentage<=50: Same as above just with % of health
sync=name: Sync this with another action in the list, e.g. usefull forr Cold Blood.
rage>=X, rage<=Y: Obvious
If you say you need special options for certain action feel free to suggest. Always good to get the actions optimised by guys who know everything about the specs
That looks better, minor nitpick would be making the health_percentage >= 20 to just >20 in the 100-20% area, so there's no overlap at exactly 20%. I also assume that if you don't have the rage to perform an action it won't be used since that check isn't in the action list? Also, drop DW to just after slam in both ranges. Using it as top priority will cause it to delay WW/BT/Slam sometimes, when putting it after them lets it fill in an empty GCD. There's enough empty GCDs that the short delay in usage after it comes off cooldown is less of a DPS loss than delaying a WW/BT/Slam for it.
That looks better, minor nitpick would be making the health_percentage >= 20 to just >20 in the 100-20% area, so there's no overlap at exactly 20%. I also assume that if you don't have the rage to perform an action it won't be used since that check isn't in the action list? Also, drop DW to just after slam in both ranges. Using it as top priority will cause it to delay WW/BT/Slam sometimes, when putting it after them lets it fill in an empty GCD. There's enough empty GCDs that the short delay in usage after it comes off cooldown is less of a DPS loss than delaying a WW/BT/Slam for it.
Also, the standard time for one fight is set to 300sec, to assure this the sim adds up all damage done in the first 150sec and assumes that the target is at exactly 50% now, so the actual fight lengths are a bit shorter because most classes deal a bit more damage in those last % and bloodlust is triggered when either health_percentage < 25 or time_to_die < 60.
Originally Posted by landsoul
Sword spec can indeed proc off of special attacks as well, including he off-hand whirlwind proccing the offhand sword spec.
Ah, that was what I meant when I asked if a sword specc can be transformed into a HS, e.g. you queue HS and hit BT and get a sword spec proc, this would now in fact be a HS am I right?
And while verifying the rage generation on my level 70 warrior I noticed that i get 12 rage if the target parries, I assume this does not apply to dodge.
Right now i refund 80% rage on miss/dodge/parry on special attacks, as i noticed missed styles only consumed 20% rage for my gimpy tiwnk.
Last edited by Starfox : 04/11/09 at 12:42 AM.
Hello.
Light the fuse.
For all my homies.
Do not run, we are your friends.
SimulationCraft Druid Guy
Suggested action list/talents for Incite Arms build for 3.1(I don't know how it plays pre-patch). The core of it is 53/8/8, the last 2 points are basically filler, took 1/1 AM and 1/2 BV for them. There's still a lot of discussion over what an optimal spec/rotation is, so don't take this as set in stone, but it's what I use in my sim and gives the best DPS so far.
Is a rend_active option possible to only use rend when it's not already up, or is that behavior built in by default? Likewise, would need a sudden_death option to only use execute at that priority when sudden death execute is available. The only change in the rotation in execute range is executing instead of slam in leftover GCDs. Lastly, could you explain when/how HS is decided? Does it queue HS ahead of time as soon as your rage breaks 42 or does it make the decision at swing time? Is the action list only parsed when the GCD is free so HS can't be decided separately from it?
I'll put together a BiS list for Arms in a bit, but here's one for fury for now.
BiS gear list pre-3.1 for horde non-orc Fury w/ JC+BS(no 1% hit from draenei, no weapon expertise racial):
head: Blue Aspect Helm(M:chaotic skyflare diamond, Y:8str/8hit) + 50AP/20crit
neck: Favor of the Dragon Queen(B:27str)
shoul: Valorous Dreadnaught Shoulderplates(Y:8str/8hit) + 40AP/15crit
back: Drape of the Deadly Foe + 22agi
chest: Chestguard of the Recluse(R:16str) + 10stats
wrist: Bracers of Unrelenting Attack(B:27str, BS:16str) + 50AP
glove: Frosted Adroit Handguards(BS:16str) + 44AP
belt: Stalk-skin Belt(BS:16str)
legs: Valorous Dreadnaught Legplates(R:16str, B:27str) + 75AP/22crit
feet: Melancholy Sabatons + 12hit/12crit
ring1: Surge Needle Ring
ring2: Ring of Invincibility
trink1: Mirror of Truth
trink2: Darkmoon Card: Greatness
MH: Betrayer of Humanity + Berserking
OH: Betrayer of Humanity + Berserking
ranged: Envoy of Mortality
Suggested action list/talents for Incite Arms build for 3.1(I don't know how it plays pre-patch). The core of it is 53/8/8, the last 2 points are basically filler, took 1/1 AM and 1/2 BV for them. There's still a lot of discussion over what an optimal spec/rotation is, so don't take this as set in stone, but it's what I use in my sim and gives the best DPS so far.
Is a rend_active option possible to only use rend when it's not already up, or is that behavior built in by default? Likewise, would need a sudden_death option to only use execute at that priority when sudden death execute is available. The only change in the rotation in execute range is executing instead of slam in leftover GCDs. Lastly, could you explain when/how HS is decided? Does it queue HS ahead of time as soon as your rage breaks 42 or does it make the decision at swing time? Is the action list only parsed when the GCD is free so HS can't be decided separately from it?
HS is designed as a queue action:
When the sim reaches the point where HS is valid, it just sets a flag.
On every mainhand attack it checks for the HS flag.
Then it checks if the player has enough rage and executes an HS instead of the mainhand attack.
DoTs are not cliped if you don't extra specify it to.
Sudden Death is not yet implemented, is there somewhere to read about how much rage goes into the execute and how the 'with min 10 rage left' plays out?
> 40 rage you always just lose 30 rage, execute is calculated as if it used 30 rage?
< 40, > 30 rage, same as obave but you have 10 rage left afterwards?
< 30 rage, calculated if all rage went into execute, and left with 10 rage afterwards?
Below 20% the sudden death buff odes nothing besides the 10rage left afterwards.
Thanks for the gearprofile.
Hello.
Light the fuse.
For all my homies.
Do not run, we are your friends.
SimulationCraft Druid Guy
Sudden Death is not yet implemented, is there somewhere to read about how much rage goes into the execute and how the 'with min 10 rage left' plays out?
> 40 rage you always just lose 30 rage, execute is calculated as if it used 30 rage?
< 40, > 30 rage, same as obave but you have 10 rage left afterwards?
< 30 rage, calculated if all rage went into execute, and left with 10 rage afterwards?
Below 20% the sudden death buff odes nothing besides the 10rage left afterwards.
Thanks for the gearprofile.
It works pretty much like you said, will never use more than 30 rage, will never leave you with less than 10 rage, sooo:
40+ rage: only 30 rage is lost and damage is the same as a 30 rage execute
30-39 rage: damage is the same as a 30 rage execute, but you're left with 10 rage afterwards
<30 rage: damage is the same as a regular execute at whatever rage you're at, and you're left with 10 rage afterwards
below 20%, the buff works exactly the same as above, it's as if you weren't even in execute range when it's up(which is a good thing).
below 20%, the buff works exactly the same as above, it's as if you weren't even in execute range when it's up(which is a good thing).
So below 20% the execute will use all your rage, but due to sudden death you will still have 10 rage?
And the profile reaches -4.5% with expertise, so it is a spec with 2/2 weapon mastery right?
Last edited by Starfox : 04/13/09 at 3:18 AM.
Hello.
Light the fuse.
For all my homies.
Do not run, we are your friends.
SimulationCraft Druid Guy
If during Execute phase you hit 'Execute' without a Sudden Death proc up it does dump all of your rage. (Execute functions as normal)
If the proc is up when in Execute phase - It treats the ability as per the normal rules of Sudden Death that Rallik outlined above.
Ok, had it implemented so that SD below 20% was just the '10 rage left', but I'll change it, thanks.
r2125 has SD now implemented as you stated
Hello.
Light the fuse.
For all my homies.
Do not run, we are your friends.
SimulationCraft Druid Guy
Concerning offhand sword spec procs, they actually proc main hand hits. Irefighter recently tested this and confirmed it in the Arms thread. Iirc, all effects that proc extra hits (except windfury weapon) always proc mainhand hits. Don't quote me on that one, but sword spec has always functioned that way, both the warrior and the rogue versions.
Concerning offhand sword spec procs, they actually proc main hand hits. Irefighter recently tested this and confirmed it in the Arms thread. Iirc, all effects that proc extra hits (except windfury weapon) always proc mainhand hits. Don't quote me on that one, but sword spec has always functioned that way, both the warrior and the rogue versions.
Are you posting your results anywhere? I'm guessing its someone else in the community that posts the different scenarios and makes summaries? Like the big simulation craft post for warlocks? Thanks.