Rage cost for dodged/parried/missed abilities* seems to be 20% of the orginal cost (e.g. a dodged Rend is 2 rage, a missed Mortal Strike is 6 rage) - essentially the same behavior as for "non-connecting" energy-based attacks (this was rather easily tested while skilling up 2H maces on tanked mobs, so all rage generation was from Bloodrage, for some minutes).


*) "On next melee" abilities might behave differently

Possibly this is going to get reverted, as a Bornakk said that they did NOT make any intended changes to rage generation (answer to Landsouls posting).

Source:

MMO-Champion BlueTracker - Newly Discovered Rage Ghost Nerf Unveiled!

Seeing as warrior dps is in roughly a good spot compared to the developers target, only requiring a small adjustment, increasing our rage generation with 33% would mean significant other nerfs. It will be interesting to see when this change occurred but there's no real reason to revert it, particularly if the change goes far back (say 3.0). It would tie in to bears and protection warriors as well, and would mean an increase in overall ability costs, more heroic striking with lowered overall damage coefficients, or something more fancy which I doubt is on the table with so many affected. Arms warriors are already nearly swimming in rage at this raid tier, increasing generation wouldn't put it in a good spot.

Ok, I have a few consideration to do after having reviewed rage generation.
One and probably the most important is about miss and expertise. While hit is still as valuable as before expertise is now imho much less important.
When you get dodges or parries you seem to generate the same rage as a normal hit. This devalues expertise contribution to rage generation by quite a lot.

Considering this, an arms warrior on a white dodged or parried swing can benefit of a "free OP" while for a dodged/parried move replaces a ms/slam/exe with a 2.5s OP that is a slight loss of dps.
The priority list would put OP first in the list so that you have more chances to not overwrite t4b on dodges.
Also OP itself can't be dodged nor parried.

My average damage consists of 20%sh white, 16%sh OP, 14%sh MS and DW, the rest is split among HS, Rend and WW.
Now:
- 16% of my damage isn't dependant on expertise at all.
- DW damage will lose a % due to "dodged crits" (ie possible dodged special hits that could have been crits; this suppose a 2 dice roll and chances should be around dodge%*crit%. An arms has 5.5% cap baseline (considering SoA) so with 40% crit you should have around 2% chances to get this kind of occurrence. You anyway replace that swing or move with an OP (if it doesn't overwrite t4b) that will most likely proc a DW stack.
- Rend dodged only lose around 1/12th due to delay and you waste 1s gcd (1.5s wasted, -0.5s bonus replacing next gcd with OP). I estimate this loss being around 2/3rd of a slam - (OP-slam), if you can avoid t4b overwrite.
- 20% of my damage if dodged can give me a white - (OP-slam) loss.

For every example consider OP-Slam as the benefit from both damage and gcd reduction.

In the end there is a loss but I'm not gonna try to estimate the entity of hit, since it's more tied to the number of occurrance in a given time rather than a fixed % value. However the loss is very lower than for a fury warrior that has 0 base expertise from talents and 85+% of his damage is affected by it.

Fury "just" devalues expertise for the loss of dps that can somehow be averaged (since I doubt fury warriors will stancedance to use OP) as (1-dodge)*damage max.

I highly doubt it could be worth gemming for expertise as arms, and I think there is a breakpoint in fury aswell.
At low gear STR could pull slightly ahead, at high gear you are already with Arp>STR and it gives better returns per point.
What you would lose is the reliability of interrupts, that in some fight is a must, but it's situational.

Since I don't think the latest blue response on this has been posted/linked to here:
World of Warcraft - English (NA) Forums -> Newly Discovered Rage Ghost Nerf Unveiled!

Seems our formula was just off. I do find it annoying however that the client doesn't always show our true rage.

Ok, so we were thinking to get 1.1697% of damage converted in rage, we instead have 0.8273% damage as rage.
Also you can never exceed 3.3090% damage as rage (7.5/453.3)*2.
So for 1000 damage you can't get more than 33 rage regardless of the weapon speed.

The cap for a 140 hit is 4.6 rage So I have to guess regardless of the roundings it will never be 5.
Since a 140 hit with a 3.2s weapon is (140*7.5/453.3 + 3.5*3.2)/2 the result is 6.75 then lowered to 4.

Well i wish this was figured out quite a while ago. How long have we been 80 now? I know the question had been brought up before at least on the WoW forums. And thankfully Landsoul got blizzard to notice his post. And thankfully Blizzard responded with a good answer. This info should have been provided by Blizzard a while ago. Although i understand they aren't obligated to do so.

I haven't mathed it yet. But a few questions come to mind. 1st they didn't tell us exactly how they arrived at 453.3 for the constant. I'm curious what formula they use now for this. We hit for 1k, 2k, 3k etc. With a cap to how much rage we can get per x damage. How much of a difference in rage is there vs the old formula. Bearing in mind the cap also. And since TG got nerfed how much rage does a fury warrior get now vs before the TG nerf using the same new formula for both. 83%? Very curious about that last one.

This new formula effects a lot of programs and websites. Quite an impact overall.

Just a few numbers.
How much influence does crit have on rage generation? How much did we THINK it was?
With the old formula crit was 2X/2 rage from damage and 7*speed/2 rage due to weapon.
For a 2k HIT with a boh this was
old: (2000*7.5/320.6+3.4*3.5)/2 = ~29 rage
new: (2000*7.5/453.3+3.4*3.5)/2 = ~22 rage

A 2k crit would instead generate
old: (2000*7.5/320.6+3.4*7)/2 = ~35 rage
new: (2000*7.5/453.3+3.4*7)/2 = ~28 rage

The static part of the formula hasn't changed at all. This practically means that if you could trade crit for ap/arp/exp/hit or any % dmg increase, so that your average damage stays the same, the crit "build" would produce more rage than we tought thus slightly increasing the value of crit.

This proportion decreases from 6% @1k damage to 1% @ 19k damage, and even at 100k damage grants a 0.21% rage increase compared to the old formula commonly used in spreadsheets.

It is very different than the supposed 3/8 vs 1/2 ratio that affected both factors and was theorically increasing the rage gain from damage vs the rage gain from weapon speed factor, thus decreasing the contribution of crit to rage.

I didn't put these numbers on the spreadsheet yet, but I guess this could be a sort of buff for crit for low geared furies, since at low levels the static part has a high impact.
On the other side Arms get 25% more rage from damage done that for a 2k hit is a 18%sh rage increase. The higher the damage the greater the increase.

Few other numbers.
@ 11369 damage w/o Endless rage a hit will produce 100 rage.
@ 10650 damage w/o Endless rage a crit will produce 100 rage.
@ 9095 damage with Endless rage a hit will produce 100 rage.
@ 8520 damage with Endless rage a crit will produce 100 rage.

The cap is only used to limit the rage income at very low damages limiting it to 3% of your damage.
The cap for a 3.4s weapon is around 240 for hit and 480 for crit. Over that damage value you should generate rage normally.

Agreed. This is extremely annoying, considering our shouts cost 10 rage apiece, and our ability-based rage gains are in even multiples of 10. As a result, the last 10 rage generated is always wasted, in terms of shouting. (Speaking out of combat, of course.)

What SEEMS to be happening is thus: A Warrior uses a talented (1/2) Berserker rage, which should, for at least one full second, give the Warrior 10 rage, allowing the use of one shout, which would completely consume all available rage. However, due to the new nature of energy "prediction" by the client, the Warrior, upon using Berserker Rage, instantly loses the first point of rage from the client "predicting" the loss of rage due to natural rage decay.

Did they ever tell us why they chose the previous, level 70, constant? Does it matter? Not particularly. That's the value they chose for balance purposes. Not saying that it's right or wrong, but that's the value that was selected, by whatever method.

Also, note that the formula itself (algebraic functions) did not change. The only thing that changed was the value of the constant.

Which doesn't help if we don't know the value of c. I don't need an answer as to why they chose the L70 constant. Nor do i need to know why 453.3 was chosen for L80. I'd just like to know what the math is. How is the number for c determined mathematically. For spreadsheet purposes for people that are leveling they need to know what that constant is at each level. So right now we have an incomplete answer of the whole formula. We know what it is for L60, L70 and L80 now. Anything in between those levels are pure assumptions. Although i believe 1-59 was tested. 61-69 may have been tested. But 71-80 was not tested to confirm and verify previous math assumptions. ok we know 80 now. So scratch that off my 71-80 list. I can easily fill those numbers in based on known c values at 3 given levels. But i'd then have to test and confirm it. And it still may be wrong although close.

Since the formula for c is unknown how are websites and spreadsheets going to incorporate c. This has a huge impact on like 20+ programs and websites. It effects the tanking ones as well. Everything now needs to be redone. At the minimum at least L80 can be fixed. So that's better than nothing as that's the most important number. But accuracy at any and all levels would be the perfect answer.

This is exactly the answer i wanted and suspected. This more closely matches in game results. I suspect a lot of items values and your choices will now change based on this. I suspect that the loss of crit with Ulduar gear is why people feel their rage is low and suspected a rage nerf when that wasn't the case. They got new gear but they lost a bit of rage. Or in some cases did not get nearly the increase in rage and dps as they thought they should have compared to previous gear. The corrected formula has quite an impact.

We had the formula for finding c derived already(its still on wowwiki), thats is where we had the 320.6 from in the first place. The problem is that it is not the same formula past 70, so no regression will be accurate. As far as I know the formula for c past lvl 70 has not been released by blizz and finding data points for it would be a huge pain.

If you found the regression model it wouldn't even matter, because they would change it again in the next expansion and we would run into the same problem. At least now we know what to expect and how to test it to get the right c value.

I don't really see why it should be assumed that any of those regressions will fit properly. I'd personally expect to see major slope discontinuities at 60 and 70. If we really wanted to get perfectly-accurate data, I think the best way would be to write a little UI mod with instructions to do the info gathering, put it out in the community, and ask people to go beat on training dummies for a bit with different-leveled warriors and submit their data.