Tanking Spreadsheet 3.3 - Page 3

Visinvictus · 01/19/10, 12:14 PM

I was playing with this spread sheet to test avoidance setups, and to make a long story short it breaks the spread sheet when you reach 0% unblocked hits.

ZorbaTHut · 01/26/10, 6:05 PM

Every bug reported above should now be fixed, especially the 100%-avoidance bug. Thanks for the reports, everyone!

I also tracked down and fixed a few small issues with threat calculations, so it should now be more accurate in general.

New version here

Originally Posted by Executation

Zorba,

I'm trying to input accurate numbers into the boss profiles and I was able to discover how to do this correctly for the DPS column. I have been putting in a hit size based on what the result is in "Stats.C23" and matching it up to a my log data. I'm finding that Anub hits me for about 17000 on average in 10 man hard mode. So, by backtracking, I've entered a value of 33600 in cell "Talents+Setup.J17" and a value of 1.75 in cell "Talents+Setup.J19" (the second value is the bosses attack speed which I got from my combat log).

Entering those things gives me an output value of around 17000 in cell "Stats.C23" with all the appropriate raid buffs, consumables, gear equipped, etc. used at the time of the fight.

So now I'm trying to figure out a good way to model magic damage and I was wondering if you could help me with how the spreadsheet uses the boss profile in it's calculations. Obviously cell "Stats.K18" is the value that the spreadsheet user plays with. What sort of number should I be putting there? Should I add up all the magic damage that could possibly hit me at once? Or should I add up the magic damage taken over the length of the fight and divide it by the time giving me a dps number? Or should I take a short section of time where I see a large burst of magic damage, total it up and divide by the short section's time length in seconds?

Originally Posted by todemax

As far as I recall, the burst calcs is based on how long you will survive without heals with rng against you, in steady state dps. So I believe it is averaged. On a typical boss, I myself would choose to use dps values from the highest dps phase of the encounter, and increase the value of the burst weighing to accommodate the 'burstyness' of the damage.

On a side note, it would be nice to include unavoidable damage, bleeds and maybe a combination of both to the boss profiles.

This is pretty much accurate, and to be honest I've been kind of debating with myself on what I want to do with the spreadsheet. The fact is that the spreadsheet is kind of hanging together with duct tape as is, and things that I'd like to do are largely impossible in the spreadsheet format. The alternative would be going to Rawr and dumping the spreadsheet. I'm not entirely happy about that idea, but there's an upper limit on how useful I can make the spreadsheet as a spreadsheet, and I'm kind of butting up against it right now.

Real programming languages are just much nicer, it turns out.

Personally I would generally recommend including numbers from the most stressful part of the encounter, since that's the "important" part. I'm not real sure how to calculate that, and I'm not entirely happy with how the spreadsheet tries to reconcile mitigation and burst, but that's the best I can offer right now.

illusive_2008 · 01/26/10, 6:43 PM

Thanks for the update, new sheet currently list my Stamina stat weight as zero. Also missing the normal version of Bile-Encrusted Medallion, as well as on the Equip sheet The Black Heart breaks the buffed AC total.

Krc · 01/26/10, 7:42 PM

T10 gloves and chest both got bonus armor added Tier-10 Tank Armor Changes, Ashen Verdict, Blue posts.

ZorbaTHut · 01/26/10, 8:35 PM

Whoops, left some of the boss overrides on. Fixed, and updated the T10 tank armor.

bam

Krc · 01/26/10, 8:56 PM

I have a few suggestions Zorba that could maybe make the spread sheet more precise. I could grab some numbers for worse case scenarios and maybe me and a few others could look at what percentage of the boss is magic so you could incorporate N-EH Maintankadin • View topic - "Total" EH - incorporating different damage types into EH for your stamina to armor ratios. I have noticed on full burst your stamina to armor ratios are slightly off, it has armor at 1.6 and stamina at 21 while for EH purposes armor should be around 1.9-2.

ZorbaTHut · 01/26/10, 11:25 PM

Originally Posted by Krc

I have a few suggestions Zorba that could maybe make the spread sheet more precise. I could grab some numbers for worse case scenarios and maybe me and a few others could look at what percentage of the boss is magic so you could incorporate N-EH Maintankadin • View topic - "Total" EH - incorporating different damage types into EH for your stamina to armor ratios. I have noticed on full burst your stamina to armor ratios are slightly off, it has armor at 1.6 and stamina at 21 while for EH purposes armor should be around 1.9-2.

I'm curious - where are you getting that number from?

Damage-wise, the only thing it doesn't take into account already is bleed damage and magic school resistance. It already handles magic and physical damage properly, otherwise it wouldn't be able to calculate armor improvements in any sane fashion.

I mean I suppose it might be buggy but to the best of my knowledge it isn't.

todemax · 01/27/10, 5:31 AM

Originally Posted by ZorbaTHut

Personally I would generally recommend including numbers from the most stressful part of the encounter, since that's the "important" part. I'm not real sure how to calculate that, and I'm not entirely happy with how the spreadsheet tries to reconcile mitigation and burst, but that's the best I can offer right now.

I had an idea a while back on how one could model gearing against burst in a spreadsheet. I don't know if it's feasible at all though, as I don't really have had the time to browse logs.

If we disregard armour and avoidance and look at the base boss mechanics so to speak. Then, moving along the time line, every second (or swing timer) or so we can look back and ask ourselves "With a full health bar, how long would we have survived". So basically we break down our log to a lot of localized time-to-live values. Introducing mitigation and avoidance, plotting these as time-to-live values versus multiples of these ttl values, we should get something Gaussian. And from this we can choose our burst scenario as the 5% lowest time-to-live. This should be affected by not only stamina and armour, but by avoidance and block, so the model gets less restricted.

I can imagine a few methods of approaching this, but I don't really know if it's possible. I could create a concept boss fight if there's interest for this type of modelling.

Krc · 01/27/10, 8:22 AM

Ah, did not see that but maybe with a few logs pulled you can find out things like Festergut and change his damage so it is only on stack 2 since on stack 3 you are popping all of your cooldowns and stack 2 is where tanks get killed the most often.

Krc · 02/08/10, 9:25 PM

I would suggest adding the Wrathful Gladiator shield [Wrathful Gladiator's Shield Wall] as it is a viable option with the massive amounts of EH on it.

Avellyr · 02/18/10, 6:23 PM

I've been gearing my freshly-80 prot warrior, and I downloaded the spreadsheet, but it's been telling me really odd things. For example it says that I should gem defense even though I'm already well over the cap. I just wanted someone to confirm for me what the general gemming priorities are for prot warriors, since the spreadsheet and other sources I've seen seem to disagree. Also, if someone could tell me what's wrong with my spreadsheet that would be great.

I'm posting this here instead of the spreadsheet thread because I figure it has a simple answer that I don't see.

Edit: I'm pretty sure that the problem is with my weights, but I don't really know what I should set them to for a general-purpose 10-man and heroic gear set. I'm far below the point where I would ever have to gear for a specific boss (I think).

Krc · 02/19/10, 7:05 PM

Generally with the spreadsheet Avellyr you are going to want to look at Burst Time to Live and slightly adjust the armor to stamina ratio at 1 stam = 11 armor. This is because there are bosses such as Festergut where you cannot kill the encounter if you can't survive a certain burst while you can still make it pass an encounter such as DBS if you have low survival time or damage. I still suggest that you make gear sets for different bosses if you have trouble with them, but make sure you put your best pieces into Burst Time to Live.

MacNugget · 03/06/10, 6:53 PM

Zeherah's Hunter DPS Analyzer is a prime example of how this sort of spreadsheet can be turned into a web based form. It's truly awesome... You can play with it anywhere, even on your iPhone (on any web compatible platform).

Is there any chance you could move this spreadsheet to a web based form too?

Krishnakh · 07/21/10, 7:41 PM

Originally Posted by ZorbaTHut

Whoops, left some of the boss overrides on. Fixed, and updated the T10 tank armor.

bam

actually "Sanctified Ymirjar Lord's Breastplate (H)", "Sanctified Ymirjar Lord's Breastplate", "Sanctified Ymirjar Lord's Handguards (H)" and "Sanctified Ymirjar Lord's Handguards" are still missing the bonus armor. (wotlk_war_prot_2010_01_26b.ods)

ZorbaTHut · 07/23/10, 2:53 PM

Whoa hey someone resurrected the thread.

I may go through it and update the recent armor values, since I'm just getting back into raiding. Look for it in a few weeks at best, though, my time's been really cramped.

Originally Posted by MacNugget

Zeherah's Hunter DPS Analyzer is a prime example of how this sort of spreadsheet can be turned into a web based form. It's truly awesome... You can play with it anywhere, even on your iPhone (on any web compatible platform).

Is there any chance you could move this spreadsheet to a web based form too?

Zero chance, unless someone else does the infrastructure for me. I don't much enjoy web work - it's the model I find interesting.

There's a substantially higher chance that I end up turning it into a Rawr plugin. If I do, it'll be post-Cataclysm. Either way, the spreadsheet won't be maintained by me after that (though anyone else is welcome to pick it up.)