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Old 08/06/10, 8:06 PM   #46
Gulvak
Von Kaiser
 
Dwarf Warrior
 
Antonidas
Hey I was just kind of messing around with this. I have a kind of bad question though, why is the The Black Heart rated so above everything else? I mean the sheet seems to assign it even more value than the Heroic 25 man Sindragosa drop. I was just kind of curious about this. Is there some in depth trinket analysis I'm missing?

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Old 08/09/10, 2:26 AM   #47
ZorbaTHut
Von Kaiser
 
ZorbaTHut's Avatar
 
Troll Warrior
 
Mal'Ganis
Originally Posted by Gulvak View Post
Hey I was just kind of messing around with this. I have a kind of bad question though, why is the The Black Heart rated so above everything else? I mean the sheet seems to assign it even more value than the Heroic 25 man Sindragosa drop. I was just kind of curious about this. Is there some in depth trinket analysis I'm missing?
The spreadsheet doesn't model resistances in any fashion, so the Sindragosa trinket on-use ability is given zero value. It ends up comparing the Sindragosa trinket's stamina against The Black Heart's stamina and on-use ability, and Armor is a really really good stat, so The Black Heart ends up rated extremely high.

Additionally, not-always-up procs aren't penalized in any fashion, the spreadsheet just takes the "average bonus". It's tough to figure out how much a not-always-up proc should be penalized, since the tank can't choose when to focus it and there's a good chance it will be down when the tank needs it most. This is probably suboptimal and gives a further boost to The Black Heart.

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Old 08/24/10, 8:28 AM   #48
Krishnakh
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Warrior
 
Khaz'goroth (EU)
"Boots of Kingly Upheaval" are missing the 51 hit rating in wotlk_war_prot_2010_01_26b.ods

Is there still a chance you will update the spreadsheet? Would be great.

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Old 08/27/10, 3:10 PM   #49
Taliafears
Piston Honda
 
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Night Elf Rogue
 
Malygos
Cataclysm is different enough that I'm doubtless going to be getting into tank modeling again. Like Zorba, my feeling is that the spreadsheet format has come about as far as it can, and it butts up against some serious limitations and usability issues. I wanted to turn this into a web application long ago (I write them for a living), but every time I got started I allowed myself to bloat the scope of the project until it wasn't feasible anymore.

It's the usability issues that I think can be improved by Rawr or a web application - balancing average time-to-live against burst and both of those against threat capability is always going to be problematic. The only way to really solve that is to very accurately model the mechanics of a boss fight, which is next to impossible in a spreadsheet, but still quite hard in a programming language.

It's sounding like Cataclysm will simplify things a little, with the developers stating their intention for tank health pools to be typically larger than 2 or 3 hits from a boss. That will allow us to focus on average damage intake, and then adjust threat up to match the dps with whom we raid.

One last note - my considered opinion on "on use" trinkets is that it is best to use them whenever the cooldown is up. I find that in situations where I know I am going to take a lot of damage, I hit Shield Wall, Last Stand, or even Enraged Regen before I use a trinket. They just aren't powerful enough to save your life in one of those situations. A DPS trinket with an "on use" is a very different thing, because they get MORE powerful when combined with your other cooldowns. A tank trinket is utterly wasted when used in combination with Shield Wall.

There are also many situations where the dangerous burst could come at any moment, faster than you could react, so using the trinket on cooldown provides a chance to prevent one of those deadly bursts.

Additionally, if you DO decide to use them at crucial moments, their uptime is going to be greatly reduced - the advantage of correct timing is counterbalanced by reduced uptime. So modeling them based on maximum uptime is still roughly appropriate.

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Old 08/29/10, 8:20 AM   #50
Eetabeetay
Von Kaiser
 
Pandaren Warrior
 
Destromath
The PvP shoulder enchant is missing.

Edit: I also think it would be great if there was a row under stats that calculates your effective health.

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