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Old 10/20/10, 3:33 AM   #526
bradwarden
Glass Joe
 
Orc Warrior
 
Bloodhoof
Last week saw a buff to our ability coefficients:

Originally Posted by Rallik View Post
HS AP coefficient buffed by 50% to .9
BT AP coefficient buffed by 50% to .75
Slam dealing normalized weapon damage + 250
RB's MH hit buffed by 50%(deals 187.5% normalized weapon damage with 8 mastery)
RB's OH hit unchanged(mistakenly?)
Execute's AP coefficient buffed by 110% to .525 at 10 rage and 1.575 at 30 rage.
Cleave AP coefficient buffed by 50% to .675
WW weapon damage buffed by 50% to 75%
Tonight I saw a further increase over last week (post buff) in the average noncrit damageof HS, BT, melee, RB, and Slam by 15-20% but not Execute. Last week's log, this week's log. I can't see any differences in buffs that would account for this difference. In fact, the only difference in buffs that I have heard of was the removal of the Kings' Drums stacking with Mark, which should decrease DPS.

Is this a stealth buff?

Could this be related to the higher % modifier we're seeing on our paper doll weapon damage tooltips?

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Old 10/20/10, 2:59 PM   #527
Rallik
Piston Honda
 
Orc Warrior
 
Mal'Ganis
Originally Posted by bradwarden View Post
Last week saw a buff to our ability coefficients:



Tonight I saw a further increase over last week (post buff) in the average noncrit damageof HS, BT, melee, RB, and Slam by 15-20% but not Execute. Last week's log, this week's log. I can't see any differences in buffs that would account for this difference. In fact, the only difference in buffs that I have heard of was the removal of the Kings' Drums stacking with Mark, which should decrease DPS.

Is this a stealth buff?

Could this be related to the higher % modifier we're seeing on our paper doll weapon damage tooltips?
Yes, the fury spec damage bonus increased from 10% to 35% some time after I made that post, which should have increased your damage relative to what it was previously by 22.7%

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Old 10/20/10, 5:10 PM   #528
bradwarden
Glass Joe
 
Orc Warrior
 
Bloodhoof
Originally Posted by Rallik View Post
Yes, the fury spec damage bonus increased from 10% to 35% some time after I made that post, which should have increased your damage relative to what it was previously by 22.7%
It looks like they also changed it to modify physical damage only as they mentioned. 8x Chaos Banes did 29k damage last week, but 9x did only 24k this week.

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Old 10/21/10, 12:13 AM   #529
bradwarden
Glass Joe
 
Orc Warrior
 
Bloodhoof
My revised napkin math on haste rating vs crit rating for Fury with my numbers (having reforged ~all crit into hit and kept all haste):

~45 Crit rating gives 1% more crit chance, raid buffed crit chance is ~35%. All damage benefits from crit (although HS is slightly weird with Incite.) Crit also improves Flurry uptime. All crits do double damage. 1% additional crit chance is ~0.74% more crit, so should be that much of a DPS gain.

~45 Haste rating gives 1.37% haste, and that's multiplicatively buffed by Windfury, and Flurry. So 1.37% * 110% * (100% + 25% * Flurry uptime) = 1.82% additional haste, using 85% Flurry uptime. Raid buffed haste is about 74%, so 1.94% haste yields 1.11% more melee swings. White swings are 30% of Fury DPS, so there's a 0.33% DPS gain from white swings alone. 1.82% additional haste also generate 1.82% more rage than base rage regen = (33/3.65) * 0.0182, that's 0.164 additional rage per second. Assuming we can always bleed off excess rage, and that HS does about ~700 damage per rage raid buffed, 45 haste rating also gives an extra 114 DPS from rage generation alone. 114 DPS is about 0.54% more DPS. Haste rating also increases Enrage uptime.

TL;DR: 45 crit rating -> 0.74% more DPS + more Flurry uptime. 45 haste rating -> ~0.84% more DPS + more Enrage uptime

So haste rating looks slightly better than crit rating.

So what about haste rating vs strength?

45 Strength will be buffed by Plate Spec., and BoK to give 45 * 105% * 105% = 49.6 strength, which in turn gives 99.2 AP. My raid buffed AP averages ~8000, so for HS and BT (which scale off AP) 99.2 AP is a ~1.23% increase. 99.2 AP gives 7.1 additional weapon DPS. Using a 3.65 speed weapon that's 25.9 additional weapon damage. Assuming weapon damage is ~3300, 25.9 additional damage is ~0.78% buff to RB, Slam, and white damage. HS + BT are ~43% of all damage (and that RB, Slam, and white damage are ~57%,) 45 strength increases DPS by 0.97%

TL;DR: 45 haste rating looks to come in ~13% under 45 strength for me.


Fluffy hand waving crap:

The math above does not account for how much of the additional rage generated by haste is being wasted from going over the 100 rage cap. With as much haste as I have Enrage uptime is pretty high, over 85%, and it's easy to use Berserker Rage to fill the gaps. Flurry downtime is 15%, which is pretty high relative to what a crit heavy toon runs (5%).

Did some HLK pulls tonight with Eshkol, we're similarly geared except my toon has Shadowmourne and a couple other upgrades. Eshkol is reforged haste -> hit, I am reforged crit -> hit. The extra rage from reforging haste was pretty worthless, I was drowning in rage from ghouls and Infest anyways. Haste does not buff AoE damage either, and crit does. So phase one DPS is dominated by crit. Val'k DPS should also be dominated by crit, so long as we have the rage to keep Cleave on CD. Phase three sees the loss of Infest generated rage and nothing to AoE, so I think Haste would be better there. However, given how much better crit is for p1 and p2, relative to the potential loss in p3, I'm going to move most of my haste back in to crit.

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Old 10/21/10, 6:03 AM   #530
Desperados
Glass Joe
 
Human Death Knight
 
Forscherliga (EU)
Originally Posted by Baconataur View Post
I'm actually the author of that addon. The ability queue right now is far too basic, but will be updating in between exams and blizzcon. If you have any recommended changes/features please let me know
Maybe you may add an icon to track "Battle Trance" to the Buffs/ Debuffs Frame.

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Old 10/22/10, 1:59 PM   #531
Booi
Glass Joe
 
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Blood Elf Warrior
 
Mal'Ganis
Originally Posted by bradwarden View Post
TL;DR: 45 crit rating -> 0.74% more DPS + more Flurry uptime. 45 haste rating -> ~0.84% more DPS + more Enrage uptime
Haste rating also increases Flurry uptime. The % increase is difficult to track down as it is also a function of the number of yellows that you are using as well - which is inherently a function of your new rage generation. But the increased number of white crits is simple enough.

The issue is getting those to line up with any holes in flurry uptime: of which there are not many. The increased uptime due to crit rating (and even haste rating) are largely negligible at current crit levels. At best, you have 3.9% uptime on Flurry to track down.


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Old 10/22/10, 4:38 PM   #532
keseph
Von Kaiser
 
Orc Warrior
 
Arthas
No, haste (of any kind) decreases Flurry uptime by decreasing the number of expected yellow swings (which cause but do not consume Flurry) per Flurry.

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Old 10/22/10, 11:35 PM   #533
bradwarden
Glass Joe
 
Orc Warrior
 
Bloodhoof
Originally Posted by keseph View Post
No, haste (of any kind) decreases Flurry uptime by decreasing the number of expected yellow swings (which cause but do not consume Flurry) per Flurry.
Haste generates rage, rage generates yellow hits, yellow hits generate Flurry uptime. So haste both contributes to the generation of and consumption of Flurry procs.

edit: grammar

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Old 10/22/10, 11:57 PM   #534
bradwarden
Glass Joe
 
Orc Warrior
 
Bloodhoof
Originally Posted by Booi View Post
At best, you have 3.9% uptime on Flurry to track down.
I don't think this is true, when I moved everything into haste and ran with about ~35% crit I regularly saw Flurry uptimes of only ~85%.

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Old 10/23/10, 1:29 PM   #535
Deus_Phasmatis
Von Kaiser
 
Deus_Phasmatis's Avatar
 
Orc Warrior
 
Blackrock
Originally Posted by bradwarden View Post
Haste generates rage, rage generates yellow hits, yellow hits generate Flurry uptime. So haste both contributes to the generation of and consumption of Flurry procs.

edit: grammar
Haste increases the number of white swings faster than the number of special attacks (because Heroic Strike costs so much rage). Haste increases the consumption of Flurry charges faster than it increases the generation of charges.

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Old 10/23/10, 4:36 PM   #536
Khh
Glass Joe
 
Blood Elf Warrior
 
Gurubashi
Flurry uptime is not a good metric to evaluate Haste with.

Haste does not cause any change in flurry behavior concerning white hits.

Yellow hits have higher chance to crit, but the output rate of yellow hits is limited by global cooldown, higher haste allows you to consume more flurry charges between yellow hits.

But realistically that is a marginal side-effect of haste in all but extreme situations.

Even if your flurry uptime decreases theres no negative interactions between haste and flurry, as crit increases the changes in flurry uptime caused by haste decreases.

Last edited by Khh : 10/23/10 at 6:08 PM. Reason: spelling error

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Old 10/24/10, 5:35 AM   #537
brandofriva
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Warrior
 
Karazhan (EU)
Regarding the Haste Affecting Flurry positively or negatively:

From a pure white hit point of view (disregarding special attacks and anything around them) Haste has zero impact on flurry uptime. If you have a 1s swing speed or a 3s swing speed the flurry uptime is purely based on critical hit percentage chance and unaffected from haste. It does not "fall off faster" or anything like that, it lasts for 3 hits after a critical hit and then falls off (or is refreshed before then).

Including special attacks, haste will however give you additional rage (i.e. more yellow attacks) and additional enrage uptime (i.e. more raging blows). Both of these will equate to additional flurry uptime by allowing you to fill more global cooldowns over the course of a fight.

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Old 10/24/10, 12:17 PM   #538
Montegomery
Aloof Aggravator
 
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Sutiru
Undead Warrior
 
No WoW Account
Roughly speaking, for each two attacks you gain through haste you gain one Heroic Strike. It's pretty straightforward math since MH + OH = ~35 rage with 3.6 speed weapons.

So you do gain more auto attacks than special attacks, but the ratio is such that I doubt there's a significant negative effect on Flurry uptime unless you're already at a point where your core abilities are used on cooldown without want of rage.

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Old 10/25/10, 2:11 AM   #539
ComMcNeil
Von Kaiser
 
Tauren Warrior
 
Azshara (EU)
Originally Posted by bradwarden View Post
I don't think this is true, when I moved everything into haste and ran with about ~35% crit I regularly saw Flurry uptimes of only ~85%.
It does depend on exactly how many strikes you calculate, but in my formulas, I assume 4.5 total hits during a flurry proc, which in this case would then be

1 - (1 - 0.35)^4.5 = ~0.856

So 85% uptime do not seem out of place here. You assumed a 35% crit chance, which I don't think many furys have in current content and raidbuffed (even selfbuffed you should get a little more).

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Old 10/25/10, 3:35 PM   #540
TeddyTauren
Glass Joe
 
TeddyTauren's Avatar
 
Tauren Warrior
 
Blackrock
Originally Posted by nadoo View Post
I dont really see a problem with maintaining a rotation without HS with IR. But then thats seems almost definitely a dps lose.

Maybe this is usable during Heroism/Bloodlust and/or using shouts and/or speed pot? Although i can't see shouts helping a lot because of a relatively long duration of IR. edit: But prehaps using this then BT, HS, RB using a shout and cancelling the aura would be another option for small dps bursts.
(A little late, but here nonetheless)

I think you are forgetting the probable incoming buff to bloodsurge procced slams. Since they cost no rage theyll be getting the best boost from IR. It will have to be tested, but i'm thinking just using bloodthirst and slam procs, with raging blow when rage is high will be better if not equal dps.
Also IR will work well in fights with a lot of extra rage generation from damage taken.

Do we know if the active and the passive IR stack?

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