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10/13/12, 3:13 PM
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#241
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The moral of the story is:
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Originally Posted by Tsuki Ko
When the statue casts Guard, your own Guard is removed.
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Yep, that'd be it. Just tested it here and got the same results.
e: Posted about it on the official bug report forums.
Last edited by Baconslicer : 10/13/12 at 3:27 PM.
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10/14/12, 2:11 AM
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#243
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Glass Joe
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Originally Posted by Kitmajere
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I glyphed Guard for some of our Normal Elegon attempts last week and I was getting procs during our Heroic SG and Heroic Feng attempts/kills. However, I did not get a single Statue proc during our most recent night of H Gara'jal attempts (was also the 11th). Checking WoL after, I realized that I didn't even register the aura for having the statue down (yes it was down, fraps reassured me of this, every attempt in fact).
I'm wondering if this is a new bug that appeared after one of the server resets/patches/hotfixes.
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10/14/12, 4:13 AM
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#244
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Von Kaiser
Pandaren Monk
Lordaeron (EU)
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Did some testing yesterday. With guard glyphed, without the glyph and even without any glyph at all. In 4 Heroic dungeons there was not a single guard from the Statue at all.
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10/14/12, 6:56 PM
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#245
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Glass Joe
Draenei Death Knight
Azjol-Nerub (EU)
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Not that we really need to go over the Guard bug any further, but I'm pretty certain Guard and Gift of the Ox are currently the same spell. I just ran a heroic dungeon and didn't use the Ox statue, only Guard. It shows up in my Recount as GotO only. I assume there can only be one GotO/Guard up at once. With that mystery beaten to death we should now focus on explaining how my "Gift of the Ox", an absorb, supposedly crit twice.
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10/14/12, 7:11 PM
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#246
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Rawr
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Gift of the Ox are your proc'd health spheres, not Guard at all.
Last edited by Astrylian : 10/14/12 at 7:27 PM.
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Rawr!
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10/14/12, 7:30 PM
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#247
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Glass Joe
Draenei Death Knight
Azjol-Nerub (EU)
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Welp, I'm dumb. I blame my Recount for not reporting Guard.
What are people's thoughts on Chi Wave? Would one be a moron to use it over Guard? Is it too weird of a spell to be truly useful? I like the numbers on it but it's tricky to justify its... unpredictability.
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10/14/12, 8:14 PM
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#248
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Glass Joe
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Originally Posted by eekon
[...]
What are people's thoughts on Chi Wave? Would one be a moron to use it over Guard? Is it too weird of a spell to be truly useful? I like the numbers on it but it's tricky to justify its... unpredictability.
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Since its jump behaviour appears to have been fixed, it is useful in cases where it has the shortest possible traveltime.
Feng's Arcane Velocity is a good example. When the whole raid is stacked on the boss, causing the wave to perform quick jumps back and forth.
I also use it in cases where I am the only person receiving damage, making sure the wave jumps only between the boss and me.
Shuffle and Guard (when fixed) naturally still have a higher priority, but if your Shuffle does not run out in the next couple of seconds and your Guard is on CD, it makes for a usefull filler Chi spell in the aforementioned cases.
Edit:
Yet another issue with the statue:
I'm currently using a Weak Aura for when I am infight and do not have the SotO Buff on me. It popped up time and time again even though I clearly saw the Ox statue standing next to me.
As I suspected, the buff provided by a Warriors Skull Banner causes the SotO buff to dissapear, despite the statue still being present.
You will have to resummon the statue for it to be present on the raid.
This would explain, why in a lot of fights the statue - while present - did not provide a single SotO shield.
Last edited by Villem Libra : 10/14/12 at 10:22 PM.
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10/15/12, 4:09 AM
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#249
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Piston Honda
Draenei Monk
Черный Шрам (EU)
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It makes casting Guard in a raid situation almost a waste of 2 Chi, Since the rediculous amount of AP a raid tank currently has makes us spam out those SotO Guards...
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Doesn't guard trigger damage increase with your AP as well? Or is it just a tooltip issue? I thought the amount of AP you have doesn't have any effect on how often statue Guard procs, just its absorb amount.
Also, is it that major, considering how your guard only lasts a couple hits? Sure, its great to use on a damage burst, but the chances it gets removed by a statue are pretty low. Of course, its still a bug, but most of the time it probably won't do anything harmful.
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10/15/12, 6:31 AM
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#250
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Glass Joe
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Originally Posted by Iroared
Doesn't guard trigger damage increase with your AP as well? Or is it just a tooltip issue? I thought the amount of AP you have doesn't have any effect on how often statue Guard procs, just its absorb amount.
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While this is true, I think that in the current tier there are many instances where you can do (or automatically do) a lot of extra damage regardless of the high AP through Vengeance. Which means that you actually have a chance to provide a lot of extra shields for the raid. - White Floor Tiles on Stone Guard
- Shroud of Reversal on Feng + high AoE DPS in his Shield Phase
- Spiritual Innervation on Gara'Jal
- Touch of the Titans + Draw Power on Elegon
- Titan Gas + Opportunistic Strike on Will
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Also, is it that major, considering how your guard only lasts a couple hits? Sure, its great to use on a damage burst, but the chances it gets removed by a statue are pretty low. Of course, its still a bug, but most of the time it probably won't do anything harmful.
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There are many different ways to use Guard. Leaving it off Cooldown is just one of them. Some people use it on CD, others will take the glyph in a purely physical fight, just to have the 30% more selfhealing for 100% of the encounter. I would consider all of these legitimate.
I used it as a defensive CD on Elegon's breath for example. The problem being, that you normally would benefit from using the glyph on these kind of attacks. Which you can not do since it will stop your Ox Statue from casting Guard on the raid...
That said - I do not consider this bug to be the end of the world, but in the current volatile state of Brewmaster tanking, we certainly could do without it.
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10/15/12, 8:07 PM
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#251
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Glass Joe
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The blue posts today about Windsong leads me to believe that using a 2-hander with Windsong is going to be the strongest wep/enchant combo Brewmasters have. If I recall Colossus was simming pretty high, but with the new RealPPM system for Windsong.
From Zarhym:
In this case, it refers to the highest of your casting speed multiplier, or your attack speed multiplier. So, haste rating, increased attack speed effects (such as the attack speed raid buff), pure haste (such as Heroism or Bloodlust), or even Mind-Numbing Poison will all affect it.
With the 40% increased attack speed from using a 2-hander this seems like it will be multiple proccing constantly.
The formula in question is
2*haste*(time since last chance to proc capped at 10)/60=chance to proc
So in my shitty 452 equipped gear(haven't gotten our raid group going yet) I have just under 51% haste. Using both extremes of 0 seconds(just procced) and 10 seconds(the cap) we get a 5.03% chance to immediately proc again on the next anything(white, yellow, dot, healing) up to a 50.3% chance to proc if we haven't had one in the last 10 seconds. So this is telling me we should have 1 up just about all the time...and 2 or poss 3 up fairly consistently.
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10/15/12, 9:03 PM
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#252
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Glass Joe
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Correction on Fortifying Brew:
Instant Cast
3 Min CD
Turns skin to stone - note you will grow (size apron 20%)
Increases health by 20%
Increases stagger by 20%
Reduces damage taken by 20%
I've seen no affect on healing me when its activated.
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10/16/12, 1:59 AM
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#253
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Glass Joe
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Originally Posted by Chuupag
The blue posts today about Windsong leads me to believe that using a 2-hander with Windsong is going to be the strongest wep/enchant combo Brewmasters have. If I recall Colossus was simming pretty high, but with the new RealPPM system for Windsong.
From Zarhym:
In this case, it refers to the highest of your casting speed multiplier, or your attack speed multiplier. So, haste rating, increased attack speed effects (such as the attack speed raid buff), pure haste (such as Heroism or Bloodlust), or even Mind-Numbing Poison will all affect it.
With the 40% increased attack speed from using a 2-hander this seems like it will be multiple proccing constantly.
The formula in question is
2*haste*(time since last chance to proc capped at 10)/60=chance to proc
So in my shitty 452 equipped gear(haven't gotten our raid group going yet) I have just under 51% haste. Using both extremes of 0 seconds(just procced) and 10 seconds(the cap) we get a 5.03% chance to immediately proc again on the next anything(white, yellow, dot, healing) up to a 50.3% chance to proc if we haven't had one in the last 10 seconds. So this is telling me we should have 1 up just about all the time...and 2 or poss 3 up fairly consistently.
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Dual Wielding +11.28% haste, over 10-min on target dummy, typical rotation with guards and PB, I had 63% total uptime, but often, I had 2 and sometimes 3 up simultaneously.
2H +56.83% haste with way of the monk, same drill, 35% uptime, saw fewer simultaneous procs (subjectively, I wasn't counting but it was noticable, never saw 3 at once).
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10/16/12, 4:35 AM
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#254
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Glass Joe
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Originally Posted by Villem Libra
I'm currently using a Weak Aura for when I am infight and do not have the SotO Buff on me. It popped up time and time again even though I clearly saw the Ox statue standing next to me.
As I suspected, the buff provided by a Warriors Skull Banner causes the SotO buff to dissapear, despite the statue still being present.
You will have to resummon the statue for it to be present on the raid.
This would explain, why in a lot of fights the statue - while present - did not provide a single SotO shield.
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Thank you *so* much for figuring this out. I now have a weakaura tracking the statue buff and make sure to re-drop it after skull banner is over.
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10/16/12, 9:30 AM
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#255
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Glass Joe
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Originally Posted by md096
Dual Wielding +11.28% haste, over 10-min on target dummy, typical rotation with guards and PB, I had 63% total uptime, but often, I had 2 and sometimes 3 up simultaneously.
2H +56.83% haste with way of the monk, same drill, 35% uptime, saw fewer simultaneous procs (subjectively, I wasn't counting but it was noticable, never saw 3 at once).
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Do we know if this change was active yesterday though. I thought it was coming out with the downtime today.
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