The blue post stated that it was already hotfixed in, so it should be active.

Maybe I was just thinking the haste from 2-hander would scale so well with it. Think the "time from last chance to proc" is a bit squirrelly a statement. Zarhym specifically said it was not "time since last proc" but "time since last chance to proc."

But even so the 35% uptime seems a bit low. Assuming 0 haste 2 RealPPM should have roughly 33% uptime with a 10-second buff, and adding almost 57% haste only netted 2% seems off. Using really bad averaging it 'should' be up past 50% uptime.

But... I was getting a fair amount of simultaneous procs at 35% "coverage" time. Some of that time, I was being covered by 2 procs, so it is not as bad as it looks. If you added up the sum of the duration of all individual procs, I bet it is up at your bad averaging of 50% easily. Obviously it needs greater/detailed analysis, Skada buff up-times isnt enough. How often they are overlapping needs to be taken into consideration. All the procs have their own spell IDs, but meter was only tracking uptime of the name of the buff "windsong" regardless of spell id source or multiple simultaneous versions.

With dual wield, 63% uptime, many (again many) 2 at time, and an appreciable amount 3 at a time, I was actually very impressed.

So before DW vs 2H I believe was a negligible difference and more down to preference, does this change to windsong and your impressive uptime with DW make more of a case for DW. The getting 2 weps to drop still is a bit of a downer for me though >.< also changes our weapon from sharing with Feral/Guardian to Rogues and Enhancement Shamans...which in my raid group might actually help me.

So there is mastery on all the Vaults monk weps...le sigh. Oh well...EH can't hurt me I guess.

Is it just me or is Chi Wave extremely powerful, at least in 10 mans? I see the general consensus is to only use it with excess chi, but I'm usually using it more aggressively (resulting in a bit of Shuffle downtime), because the healing with high vengeance is just insane. On an average attempts it healed more than Guard (both self and statue), resulting crazy HPS (sometimes 65k+). Or do you think its still better to keep up as much shuffle as possible?

Also, Potion of the Mountains seems to work as a pretty noticeable defensive CD, giving ~16% damage reduction for 25 seconds.

Using and loving both myself.

Chi wave is certainly very powerful with vengeance, offtanking one boss on Stone Guard 10H it yielded roughly 15000 HPS alone with an average bounce healing for 105k/220k critical. Considering that if you cast it on yourself/another friendly it heals 4 times I couldn't help but find my self sacrificing about 20% shuffle uptime for the massive amount of healing it's capable of when used on cooldown.

Threat can be very strange on that fight. In our 25 man runs, we've had countless times when a dog someone taunted would run right back to the previous tank as soon as the 3 second fixate of the taunt ended. We solved this by tanks using a ranged damaging ability right after taunt to get some extra initial threat.



One other brewmaster observation. On Gara'jal 25 heroic, I was asked to go tank instead of our main blood dk (who are a nightmare for healers on this fight). Due to the voodoo dolls mechanic (100% of the damage the tank takes is also transferred to 3 other targets), this fight requires the tanks to avoid or reduce as much damage as they can. So, instead of the usual stat priority I went for parry and mastery above everything else. This was mainly done for 2 things:

• both of the stats reduce the normal melee damage I take;
• parry helps to avoid the special shadow attacks, which can miss, be parried or dodged (but go through any absorb mechanics).

The shadow attacks are your main focus for this fight, and you should try to have a cooldown for every one of them. (The cooldowns are really for the other voodoo dolled people, not yourself; you can take a 200k+ hit and recover, but having 3 other people take it at the same time can be problematic).

As a BM tank, we'll be using Dampen Magic once every 90 seconds, and glyphed fortifying brew once every 180 seconds. We will also want to have shuffle and elusive brew up for every hit possible, with boss timers you should only need a couple of stacks if you use it at the right moment. If you're an engineer, the glove tinker with on-use dodge is great as well.

External cooldowns are essential here, since you will probably not have something of your own for every hit. We are usually having a paladin use Hand of Protection on the current tank as soon as he gets voodoo doll (the doll makes the boss fixate on the tank until the banishment), then rotate Vigilance, Hand of Sacrifice, Ironbark and other damage reducing abilities. When I am not tanking, I use Avert Harm and Zen Meditation for the other tank (though I am not sure if the latter does much, hard to tell).

I was going with agility over stamina on flask, food, and most enchants and gems. This gives extra dodge and helps with dps somewhat, and max hp isn't too important here.

We haven't killed the boss yet, missing a tiny bit of dps to beat the enrage. But the tanking seems to be working very well. Hope this will be helpful for others. Also, if someone has any suggestions or observations, I'd like to hear those.

PS Since the ox statue and its guard were fixed, it became extremely useful on this fight, since it usually shields the voodoo doll targets.

For those who didn't see it : Sunnier made amazing BM auras !
Brewmaster Weak Auras - Sunnier's Art of War

I couldn't play without the Stagger one ! (Careful, several translation to do in the auras to make it work.)

Thought about the changes to Windsong and this RPPM thing. Posting here because I hope that you can help me to understand this new mechanic.

I think everybody knows Draxxarri’s post, but I’ll just quote it here:

Windsong is 2 Real PPM. Elemental Force is 10 Real PPM.
Regardless of how you're attacking or healing, slow or fast, with DoTs or direct heals, whatever, you can expect to get the same proc frequency, on average.
Dual wielding and having both weapons enchanted with the same enchant will double the frequency of procs that you get.
This Real PPM is increased by your haste %. (The highest of your melee, ranged, or spell haste is chosen).
Simple as that. Whether you're an Affliction Warlock dealing very frequent DoT ticks and Malefic Grasp ticks, or a Holy Paladin casting purely Holy Lights, or a Combat Rogue quickly attacking and using specials, or an Enhancement Shaman attacking with slow melee attacks and spells, or a Shadow Priest channeling Mind Sear on fifty Onyxian Whelps, you‘ll get 2*Haste Windsong procs or 10*Haste Elemental Force procs per enchant per minute.
We're excited to see how this proc system works out. If it works well, we may start using it for more types of procs. Feedback about how it feels is most welcome.

It can proc from any damage/healing event. It keeps track of the last time it had a chance to proc for that enchant.
It calculates the difference in time since the last chance to proc. It uses that time to determine the chance for that event to trigger a proc.
For example, if you have 22% Haste, it was 1.4sec since the last chance to proc, and you've got Windsong, then the chance to proc is 2(ppm) * 1.22(haste) * 1.4(time since last chance) / 60 (sec per min) = 5.693%.
The time since the last chance to proc is capped at 10sec, so that your first attack of a fight isn't a guaranteed proc.


What all the time was bothering me is this keeping track of the last chance to proc. There are two possible situations. No.1 = this time is being set to 0 with each possible trigger. No. 2 = it is set to 0 with the first possible trigger and after that just counts up the time. But as Draxxarri said “you’ll get 2*Haste Windsong procs or 10*Haste Elemental Force procs per enchant per minute” it seems to be No.1.

Let’s have a look at a Brewmaster with a 3.6 weapon and 10% haste.

Total melee haste = 1.1 * 1.1 (raidbuff) * 1.4 (2h) = 1.694 = 69.4%

That would be 2 * 1.694 = 3.388

What if we would just have autohits. Swingtimer = 3.6 / 1.694 = 2.125

2 * 1.694 * 2.125 / 60 = 12% chance on each swing. Interestingly this is exactly the same chance the old version of Windsong had.

Now the interesting part starts. While the old mechanic applied this 12% chance also to the styles, the new mechanic includes them in calcs for the time since last chance to proc. Let’s say the old mechanic had 30 chances to proc and the new mechanic 40 as selfheals and DoT-Ticks are also included.

OLD Mechanic

2 procs from whitehits + 30 * 0.12 = 5.6 procs in total per minute

NEW RPPM

We are going to calculate the total sum of possible triggers per minute. Whitehits = 60/2.125 = 28.23 + 40 Styles = 68.23 total possible triggers per minute = 0.88 seconds average time between these triggers

2 * 1.694 * 0.88 / 60 = 4.97% which results in the aforementioned 3.388 procs per minute

This would mean that we are talking about a nerf to Windsong for Brewmasters. Maybe my math is off. Just totally confused right now.

Zarhym said:
it refers to the highest of your casting speed multiplier, or your attack speed multiplier. So, haste rating, increased attack speed effects (such as the attack speed raid buff), pure haste (such as Heroism or Bloodlust), or even Mind-Numbing Poison will all affect it.

So from reading that the 40% haste from a 2-hander should apply.