Elitist Jerks Brewmaster (Tank) Basic Discussion

 10/20/12, 7:19 AM #271 T.K. Von Kaiser   Luxdator Human Paladin   Stormrage First on DW vs. 2-handed... While normally our considerations are solely on the result of using DW over 2-hand or the other way around in a world of "limitless" stats, I find that DW for Brewmasters will always be behind 2-hand simply due to the amount of Hit needed to cap DW. The amount of stats needed to cap all the Hit needed for DW will net a lower overall amount of Haste, Crit, Expertise and Mastery, that the overall mitigation/avoidance/EH of a DW Brewer will be lower than a 2-handed one. On the RPPM/Enchant/Windsong I don't want to dabble on the math right now, but consider that they could very well be using an incremental algorithm, with something more or less like this happening: (for easy of numbers eg) Base chance to proc: 10% - P Incremental chance due elapsed time: (Time since last chance to proc)*(Coef to normalize the formula) - T*C So the formula would (in a much "simpler" world then ours) be something like: Windsong proc chance = (P+(T*C)) So that the more haste you had, the more rolls you'd have to get a proc and also the longer it took the enchant to proc, the higher your chance would be, possibly until you get a 100% chance. They could make the coef in the formula such that you'd reach intervals of 100% proc chance, in the worst case scenario, around 30sec mark, which would be a real 2 ppm.
10/20/12, 7:47 AM   #272
Ohdamn
Glass Joe

Pandaren Monk

Wrathbringer (EU)
 Originally Posted by T.K. First on DW vs. 2-handed... While normally our considerations are solely on the result of using DW over 2-hand or the other way around in a world of "limitless" stats, I find that DW for Brewmasters will always be behind 2-hand simply due to the amount of Hit needed to cap DW.
Why would you have to hardcap hit with DW? Your styles have the same chance to miss only white hits would profit from extra hit.

oh and statue is indeed fixed and did a pretty amazing job on our will of the emperor 25 hc rekill this week

Last edited by Ohdamn : 10/20/12 at 8:00 AM.

 10/20/12, 12:40 PM #273 Kozaky Glass Joe     Brewzaky Orc Monk   Emerald Dream So is it viable or recommended to use Colossus + Windsong as DW, or would it be better to just go 2x Windsong/ 2x Colossus? Or is Colossus just overall terrible?
10/20/12, 3:23 PM   #274
Astrylian
Rawr

Night Elf Monk

Stormrage
 Originally Posted by T.K. First on DW vs. 2-handed... While normally our considerations are solely on the result of using DW over 2-hand or the other way around in a world of "limitless" stats, I find that DW for Brewmasters will always be behind 2-hand simply due to the amount of Hit needed to cap DW. The amount of stats needed to cap all the Hit needed for DW will net a lower overall amount of Haste, Crit, Expertise and Mastery, that the overall mitigation/avoidance/EH of a DW Brewer will be lower than a 2-handed one. On the RPPM/Enchant/Windsong I don't want to dabble on the math right now, but consider that they could very well be using an incremental algorithm, with something more or less like this happening: (for easy of numbers eg) Base chance to proc: 10% - P Incremental chance due elapsed time: (Time since last chance to proc)*(Coef to normalize the formula) - T*C So the formula would (in a much "simpler" world then ours) be something like: Windsong proc chance = (P+(T*C)) So that the more haste you had, the more rolls you'd have to get a proc and also the longer it took the enchant to proc, the higher your chance would be, possibly until you get a 100% chance. They could make the coef in the formula such that you'd reach intervals of 100% proc chance, in the worst case scenario, around 30sec mark, which would be a real 2 ppm.
No, on both cases.

You don't go for hardcapping white hit with DW; yellow hit cap is the same for DW and 2H.

They already gave the full details of how RPPM works, and it's not at all what you describe.

Rawr!

 10/20/12, 4:28 PM #275 Netukka Von Kaiser   Drnetukkamd Human Monk   Ravencrest (EU) One thing I found out while doing Gara'jal heroic. After you get banished and get back out to normal realm, you can go inside spirit realm with a totem. Once inside, heal yourself with 2x expel harm (you go in with 30% so no cooldown) + chi wave + healthstone and you should be pretty much full. Time it so you can leave the realm just before the other tank gets banished and you can tank for 30 seconds with extra 22% haste/crit/mastery/dmg. Just remember to taunt once you come out. Felt lot more useful than hitting the boss without vengeance. Not terrible at killing adds inside shadow realm either.
10/20/12, 5:02 PM   #276
Deridian
Glass Joe

Worgen Death Knight

Windrunner
 Originally Posted by Kozaky So is it viable or recommended to use Colossus + Windsong as DW, or would it be better to just go 2x Windsong/ 2x Colossus? Or is Colossus just overall terrible?
I would also like to know the answer to this, as well as if you are using a 2hand. I was using Windsong until the 2RPPM change, and noticed I was maybe getting 2 to 3 procs per minute. After that I switched to Colossus, because it can proc 5-8 times per minute.

Lastly once Dancing Steel is an option, is it going to be the end all enchant for DW and 2hand?

 10/22/12, 9:45 AM #278 Venyasure Von Kaiser     Gothmog Orc Death Knight   Sinstralis (EU) I've received a message, and i've done some more tests, and it seems that only the first hit giving you initial Vengeance (being also the minimum Vengeance you have after you're hit) was nerfed by 33%. The average Vengeance was only nerfed by 10%. Here is the modified spreadsheet : http://www.filedropper.com/brewmasterspreadsheetcopy_4 I'd love a real patch note...
10/22/12, 5:34 PM   #279
Baconslicer
The moral of the story is:

Pandaren Monk

Kilrogg
 Originally Posted by Venyasure I'd love a real patch note...
Daxxarri just posted a clarification on the two recent Vengeance changes here.

 10/23/12, 8:26 AM #280 Kozaky Glass Joe     Brewzaky Orc Monk   Emerald Dream This also may seem a bit silly, but are there any addons that people use to track their Stagger DoT amount?
 10/23/12, 8:45 AM #281 okkita Von Kaiser     Malev Orc Death Knight   The Maelstrom (EU) Venyasure, have you toyed with the idea of representing optimal Purifying Brew usage in a different way? Optimal uptime is a fairly abstract concept and not something that you can really use to make decisions or even assess your own performance in between tries (since the sample size is too small). Is there a different metric that we can use in a more direct way? I'm thinking something in the lines of min/max stagger stack sizes vs time.
10/23/12, 9:16 AM   #282
Siccore
Glass Joe

Troll Shaman

Gorgonnash (EU)
 Originally Posted by Kozaky This also may seem a bit silly, but are there any addons that people use to track their Stagger DoT amount?
I only watch the colors. Green is fine, yellow is "well, well where is my brew button" and red is "click, click, click, click, click, click"

Does it really matters how much dmg your stagger debuff is?

10/23/12, 10:23 AM   #283
germi
Glass Joe

Gnome Monk

Aman'Thul (EU)
 This also may seem a bit silly, but are there any addons that people use to track their Stagger DoT amount?
I would recommend "Brewmaster Tao" if you want to see the overall amount. "Weakauras" would also be an option.

10/23/12, 10:24 AM   #284
Ohdamn
Glass Joe

Pandaren Monk

Wrathbringer (EU)
 Originally Posted by Kozaky This also may seem a bit silly, but are there any addons that people use to track their Stagger DoT amount?
As far as I know there is only one addon specifically made for stagger: Brewmaster Tao

But I think Weak Auras is doing a better job. Try adding this code in your Weak Auras

10/23/12, 10:26 AM   #285
revjake
Glass Joe

Tauren Druid

Twisting Nether
 Originally Posted by Kozaky This also may seem a bit silly, but are there any addons that people use to track their Stagger DoT amount?
Brewmaster Tao from wowinterface.com does a great job of showing the total amount of stagger left in the dot so you can 'smart-purify' and drink based on total amount to be applied. if the stagger amount is 15k / tick, clearing at 1 tick doesn't mean anything. I clear when total amount hits ~150k

 Elitist Jerks Brewmaster (Tank) Basic Discussion