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Old 10/24/12, 3:13 PM   #301
Chuupag
Glass Joe
 
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Pandaren Monk
 
Jaedenar
Originally Posted by Neara View Post
More haste => more attacks => more crits => more EB
The amount of autoattack crits you gain from haste changing from a mastery build to a hit/exp/haste build is such a minuscule number to be completely negated by the whims of RNG. You will get (% amount of haste gained) * (crit percentage) every 100 attacks. Using extremely bad napkin math that gives you a whole whopping 2 extra crit auto attacks over a 6 minute fight.

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Old 10/24/12, 3:50 PM   #302
brolynn
Glass Joe
 
Blood Elf Monk
 
Balnazzar
Originally Posted by saboya View Post
If you check this query:

World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

You'll notice the Shadow Attacks (Left Hook, Right Cross, Hammer Fist, Sweeping Kick) are roghly 8 seconds apart. Diffuse Magic only lasts 6 seconds, so it would cover only 1 hit. Dampen harm would reduce 3 hits by half, and I believe that would be better. Even if all those are hits (no parries or dodges), healers won't have a problem since they're dealing half damage. And even if you dodge/parry a few, Dampen Harm lasts 45 seconds, so you'll always have 100% benefit from it.
Gara's default melee's also consume dampen harm stacks. So unless you have a nice avoidance streak you'll only mitigate one shadowy attack by 50% compared to 90% from diffuse magic. Of course you might decide the 50% mitigation on 2 standard melee's makes the trade worth it.

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Old 10/24/12, 4:36 PM   #303
Kitmajere
Glass Joe
 
Draenei Monk
 
Cenarius
Originally Posted by Ohdamn View Post
But I think Weak Auras is doing a better job. Try adding this code in your Weak Auras
What does this code show exactly? I'd prefer to just use weakauras since I'm already running it, but I need to see stagger amounts and color, not just color.

Last edited by Kitmajere : 10/24/12 at 4:42 PM.

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Old 10/24/12, 5:13 PM   #304
Neara
Glass Joe
 
Pandaren Monk
 
Die Ewige Wacht (EU)
Originally Posted by Chuupag View Post
The amount of autoattack crits you gain from haste changing from a mastery build to a hit/exp/haste build is such a minuscule number to be completely negated by the whims of RNG. You will get (% amount of haste gained) * (crit percentage) every 100 attacks. Using extremely bad napkin math that gives you a whole whopping 2 extra crit auto attacks over a 6 minute fight.
than RNG just loves me in hit/exp/haste and hates me in mastery. ^^




Taunting no longer gives Vengeance on Gara'jal (maybe everywhere, only place it's really interesting is gara'jal) *sad panda*

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Old 10/24/12, 6:26 PM   #305
Kozaky
Glass Joe
 
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Orc Monk
 
Emerald Dream
Originally Posted by Kitmajere View Post
What does this code show exactly? I'd prefer to just use weakauras since I'm already running it, but I need to see stagger amounts and color, not just color.
Shows color and how much the dot is ticking for. It's excellent and I'd recommend it.

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Old 10/25/12, 11:02 AM   #306
Talden
Glass Joe
 
Human Paladin
 
Defias Brotherhood (EU)
For heroic Gara'jal i can get to just below 16% mastery but i also glyph Guard for it due to the high amount of shadow damage, especially later into the fight.

Was having an argument with a guy that was saying a exp/ hit build is better for it but i just don't see how it is. Also i don't really see this huge DPS loss... I don't log gara'jal myself so the logs can screw up but on Heroic Stone Guard i was doing around the same damage, if not more, than when i was in my hit/ expertise build, obviously i'll be slightly more geared but the DPS increase if their is any wouldn't be that much.

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Old 10/25/12, 12:31 PM   #307
Ohdamn
Glass Joe
 
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Pandaren Monk
 
Wrathbringer (EU)
Originally Posted by Talden View Post
For heroic Gara'jal i can get to just below 16% mastery but i also glyph Guard for it due to the high amount of shadow damage, especially later into the fight.

Was having an argument with a guy that was saying a exp/ hit build is better for it but i just don't see how it is. Also i don't really see this huge DPS loss... I don't log gara'jal myself so the logs can screw up but on Heroic Stone Guard i was doing around the same damage, if not more, than when i was in my hit/ expertise build, obviously i'll be slightly more geared but the DPS increase if their is any wouldn't be that much.
How are you able to keep up Shuffle and Purifying Brew with no hit/exp and haste?

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Old 10/25/12, 2:08 PM   #308
tastysnack
Kind of hates everything.
 
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Pandaren Monk
 
Kilrogg
Originally Posted by Ohdamn View Post
How are you able to keep up Shuffle and Purifying Brew with no hit/exp and haste?
Honestly, when we killed him last night, I sacrificed about 1% expertise and 1% hit, and reforged/gemmed/enchanted as much mastery as possible - essentially replacing my haste. It wasn't nearly as bad as you think - energy regen was at 10.6/s vs. my normal 12 (mind you, I was in 474 at the time). I had an 85% uptime of Shuffle on the kill, and dropped PB when my WA would turn yellow.

To clarify: I was at around 6.5% exp/hit at the time of the kill.

Last edited by tastysnack : 10/25/12 at 2:13 PM.

Calligraphy, Windwalker/Brewmaster of <Post Mortem>
Watch me raid Sun-Thursday 8:30-11:30 PST at my stream. We're sitting at 9/13 HM!

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Old 10/25/12, 8:33 PM   #309
Neara
Glass Joe
 
Pandaren Monk
 
Die Ewige Wacht (EU)
Comparing your log to mine, the difference in mastery seems non-existend. But I envy you your Damagedealer. We had to 4-heal it to make the enrage.


Btw: Hand of Protection is great here because of the Voodoo Doll Fixate (and the dmg loss isn't that big because we can still use Crackling Jade Lightning)

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Old 10/26/12, 12:57 PM   #310
Netukka
Von Kaiser
 
Human Monk
 
Ravencrest (EU)
Heres a log from kill tonight

Shows how much damage you can do when you dont go for mastery. Same reforges as currently in armory (almost exp hard cap/hitcap, haste>crit). Take it with a grain of salt though, because I was logging myself so 100% uptime. Only used PB when I hit red. Went inside spirit realm twice after getting out of banishment to get the spiritual innervation buff on myself when the other tank got banished.

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Old 10/26/12, 1:09 PM   #311
Neckface
Piston Honda
 
Undead Rogue
 
Bonechewer
I believe the following is the rule for when the glyph of guard is beneficial:
Magic damage taken every 30 seconds is greater than the value of the unglyphed Guard's shield minus 30% of your normal personal healing every 30 seconds.
I.e.,
magic_dps_received > unglyphed_guard_value / 30 - personal_hps
Notes:
- It's probably safe, and infinitely easier, to ignore the part about 30% of personal HPS.
- I'm assuming (accurately?) that it's not a good idea to spend Chi on self-healing rather than mitigation, even with the Glyph.
- The Glyph's benefit is highest when the ">" is an "~=", which gives us the maximum uptime on the personal healing boost.

So far so obvious, I think.

Might I suggest, then, that a useful thing for the Brewmaster community would be to keep a master list of which fights include enough magic damage that it's worth glyphing Guard? It shouldn't take very much magic damage, as a % of overall damage, to make that threshold.

Could we even generalize to a rule of thumb about what that percentage is?

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Old 10/26/12, 2:55 PM   #312
Venyasure
Von Kaiser
 
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Orc Death Knight
 
Sinstralis (EU)
Daxxarri just posted a clarification on the two recent Vengeance changes
Thanks. The spreadsheet remains unchanged.

Yet i've added two sets of new cells on the second sheet :

http://www.filedropper.com/brewmasterspreadsheetcopy_5



The fist four cells are modifiers you might use on fights like Elegon. For instance, if you have 50% healing and damage done bonus, you'll enter 1.5 in the "Healing done modifier" and "Damage done modifier" cells. Note that the "Damage taken modifier" cell is redundant with the "Boss DPS" and magical damage taken cells. If the boss hits for 200k dps and you've got 10% increase in damage taken, you either put 1.1 in the "Damage taken modifier" cell and 200000 in "Boss DPS", or 220000 in "Boss DPS" and 1 in "Damage taken modifier".

The other cells concern the lvl 30 talents. On the line "Frequency", you enter the frequency at which you use a talent. For example, entering 1 in the Chi Wave Frequency means you use it once every 8 seconds. Entering say 0.7 means you use it once every (1/(0.7/8)) = 11.43 seconds. The cooldown of Chi Burst is variable : it is set at the maximum Chi Burst you can do given your Chi generation (and the Chi spent on Guard).

The "Healing efficiency" line indicates the number of targets you heal with each use of a talent. You can use this line to represent overhealing. For example, the default value for Zen Sphere is 0.6, meaning it will do 40% overhealing. If you're healing 10 players with Chi Burst, but you're doing 50% overhealing with it, then the "Healing efficiency" value is 5. Same thing for Chi Wave.

The "Damage efficiency" works in the same fashion ; it's the number of targets you damage. For instance, the default value for Chi Wave is 3, which means you cast your Chi Waves on allies, and it hits 4 allies and 3 foes ; the "Healing efficiency" for Chi Wave is 2.5 instead of 4 to represent possible overhealing, you can modify this value obviously.

Remarks :

You'll notice that using these talents results into a very low Shuffle Uptime (you simply don't have enough Chi for a high uptime). But they can be beneficial for overall damage avoided/healed, especially Chi Wave and Chi Burst if it heals several allies. It's up to you, in a raid situation, to choose whether you prefer to parry and stagger attacks with Shuffle or have a fairly decent HPS.

Upcoming changes :

- I'm curious to know what our dps would be like if we switched to Tiger Stance

- I'm planning on adding a cell for bleed damage taken (Stone Guards)

- I'm trying to make the spreadsheet work on Open Office. It will work, eventually, after i make a couple of changes. I'll upload an Open Office version when it's ready, but i don't know when.

Last edited by Venyasure : 10/26/12 at 3:51 PM.

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Old 10/26/12, 3:04 PM   #313
Chuupag
Glass Joe
 
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Pandaren Monk
 
Jaedenar
Alot of changes inc, most notable I think is the Ascension change. Think it will be the preferred choice at that tier once haste*1.15 is better than power strikes and chi brew for chi per min.

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Old 10/26/12, 3:32 PM   #314
revjake
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Druid
 
Twisting Nether
Originally Posted by Kitmajere View Post
What does this code show exactly? I'd prefer to just use weakauras since I'm already running it, but I need to see stagger amounts and color, not just color.
As I stated before, Brewmaster Tao will do this for you.

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Old 10/26/12, 5:00 PM   #315
Netukka
Von Kaiser
 
Human Monk
 
Ravencrest (EU)
Originally Posted by Chuupag View Post
Alot of changes inc, most notable I think is the Ascension change. Think it will be the preferred choice at that tier once haste*1.15 is better than power strikes and chi brew for chi per min.
Well, assuming it works like the current passive from Ox stance ((base regen + haste)*1.1) and power strikes is changed to 22 seconds, we can get some numbers from napkin math. Since ascension depends on your base regen...

Asc w/ 0 haste (base 10 energy/sec): 1chi/26.67 sec - 4chi/106.6 sec
Asc w/5k haste (base 11.17 energy/sec): 1chi/23.87 sec - 4chi/95.5 sec
Asc w/10k haste (base 12.34 energy/sec): 1chi/21.60 sec - 4chi/86.4sec
Power strikes: 1 chi/22 sec - 4 chi/88 sec
Chi Brew: 4 chi/90 sec

Ascension looks like it'll become the obvious choise for windwalkers very quickly thanks to Tiger stance, but doesnt match up to Power Strikes for pure regen until extreme haste values for tanks.

But this is just considering the extra chi benefit and not the potential of pooling an extra chi for whatever usage.

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