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Old 03/30/12, 12:54 PM   #31
Draugdae
Von Kaiser
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Kargath
Originally Posted by Mericet View Post
That is assuming when you cancel the buff your % hp remains the same, otherwise you could use and cancel it for an instant full heal, or just cancel it after your health is lower than your normal maximum which would make it more like an absorb effect that blocks healing.
When I tested this on the last beta build, it kept my %health constant when I clicked off the buff. I believe it has also kept my % health constant when I apply the buff, though I have not tested that as thoroughly.

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Old 03/30/12, 1:06 PM   #32
Tyvi
Never, Mags. Never!
 
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Human Death Knight
 
Turalyon (EU)
Originally Posted by Mericet View Post
Why does there have to be a drawback for something that doubles your health? Icebound fortitude, survival instincts and guardian of ancient kings reduce damage taken by 50%, which is effectively doubling your health, and they don't have drawbacks. Those abilities last I think 12 seconds and fortifying ale does last up to 20, however. It will be interesting to see how often you can make use of those 8 extra seconds.
Neither of these are class abilities though. Fortifying Ale is something every Monk spec gets. Or maybe it's because Blizz doesn't want FA to combo with Avert Harm. It's probably too early to tell.

If it wasn't for the fact that Shuffle only affects melee swings, I wouldn't even be so sure if Brewmasters even needed Shield Wall ability since Shuffle + Purifying Brew looks like a really good combo and it only has a 45 sec CD.


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Old 04/01/12, 1:57 PM   #33
Aspir
Von Kaiser
 
Tauren Warrior
 
Skullcrusher
For any that are curious, here is a World of Logs parse of some time I spent on the beta in Naxx today playing my 85 Brewmaster. Warning: I am in no way claiming that I am actually playing Brewmaster properly! Just hoping this might help some at the EJ crowd figure out what we're actually supposed to do.

World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

Most of my time I was trying to just solo things, but later on I had a friend join me to bring some extra DPS to get through a few bosses. Solo, my best on Patchwerk was about 50% before he ended up enraging and killing me. (Premade monk ~378 ilvl).

I did find Jinyu's Cider to be much stronger as a tank, rather than Ascendence (+1 Max Chi) as Jinyu's on-demand Full Chi was great.

NOTE: I had to hack out a particular line in the log files because World of Logs (and raidlogs) were barfing on it. For reference, it's this type of line (MISFIRE):

4/1 10:49:45.184 SWING_MISSED,0xF1303E7500000E4F,"Sapphiron",0x10a48,0x0,0x0100000000000CBD,"Aspyronk" ,0x511,0x0,MISFIRE

--

A couple other things I wanted to mention:

- Dizzying Haze works on some mobs+bosses, but doesn't work on others. For example, Malygos was immune, but Patchwerk was affected by it.
- The Tiger Palm buff (+5% to Guard) IS consumed as soon as you do your next Guard
- You DO still avoid attacks during Shuffle. Click the spoiler for a combat log segment against Patchwerk.
Click Here ← Click Here

4/1 10:07:14.055 SPELL_AURA_APPLIED,0x0100000000000CBD,"Aspyronk",0x511,0x0,0x0100000000000CBD,"Aspyro nk",0x511,0x0,115307,"Shuffle",0x1,BUFF
4/1 10:07:14.055 SPELL_AURA_REFRESH,0x0100000000000CBD,"Aspyronk",0x511,0x0,0x0100000000000CBD,"Aspyro nk",0x511,0x0,117994,"Stagger",0x1,BUFF
4/1 10:07:14.055 SPELL_CAST_SUCCESS,0x0100000000000CBD,"Aspyronk",0x511,0x0,0x0000000000000000,nil,0x8 0000000,0x80000000,115307,"Shuffle",0x1
4/1 10:07:14.154 SPELL_AURA_REMOVED,0x0100000000000CBD,"Aspyronk",0x511,0x0,0x0100000000000CBD,"Aspyro nk",0x511,0x0,115295,"Guard",0x1,BUFF,26417,37
4/1 10:07:14.455 SWING_MISSED,0xF1303E9C0000002A,"Patchwerk",0x10a48,0x0,0x0100000000000CBD,"Aspyronk" ,0x511,0x0,DODGE
4/1 10:07:14.688 SPELL_AURA_REFRESH,0x0100000000000CBD,"Aspyronk",0x511,0x0,0x0100000000000CBD,"Aspyro nk",0x511,0x0,117994,"Stagger",0x1,BUFF
4/1 10:07:14.688 SPELL_ENERGIZE,0x0100000000000CBD,"Aspyronk",0x511,0x0,0x0100000000000CBD,"Aspyronk", 0x511,0x0,116328,"Recoil",0x1,5,4
4/1 10:07:15.089 SPELL_MISSED,0xF1303E9C0000002A,"Patchwerk",0x10a48,0x0,0x0100000000000CBD,"Aspyronk" ,0x511,0x0,28308,"Hateful Strike",0x1,DODGE
4/1 10:07:15.089 RANGE_DAMAGE,0x0100000000000CBD,"Aspyronk",0x511,0x0,0xF1303E9C0000002A,"Patchwerk",0 x10a48,0x0,120274,"Tiger Strikes",0x1,6874,-1,1,0,0,0,nil,nil,nil
4/1 10:07:15.089 SPELL_AURA_REFRESH,0x0100000000000CBD,"Aspyronk",0x511,0x0,0x0100000000000CBD,"Aspyro nk",0x511,0x0,117994,"Stagger",0x1,BUFF
4/1 10:07:15.221 SWING_MISSED,0xF1303E9C0000002A,"Patchwerk",0x10a48,0x0,0x0100000000000CBD,"Aspyronk" ,0x511,0x0,DODGE
4/1 10:07:15.488 SPELL_AURA_REFRESH,0x0100000000000CBD,"Aspyronk",0x511,0x0,0x0100000000000CBD,"Aspyro nk",0x511,0x0,117994,"Stagger",0x1,BUFF
4/1 10:07:15.488 SPELL_ENERGIZE,0x0100000000000CBD,"Aspyronk",0x511,0x0,0x0100000000000CBD,"Aspyronk", 0x511,0x0,116328,"Recoil",0x1,5,4
4/1 10:07:15.955 SWING_MISSED,0xF1303E9C0000002A,"Patchwerk",0x10a48,0x0,0x0100000000000CBD,"Aspyronk" ,0x511,0x0,DODGE
4/1 10:07:16.288 SPELL_MISSED,0xF1303E9C0000002A,"Patchwerk",0x10a48,0x0,0x0100000000000CBD,"Aspyronk" ,0x511,0x0,28308,"Hateful Strike",0x1,DODGE
4/1 10:07:16.288 SPELL_AURA_REFRESH,0x0100000000000CBD,"Aspyronk",0x511,0x0,0x0100000000000CBD,"Aspyro nk",0x511,0x0,117994,"Stagger",0x1,BUFF
4/1 10:07:16.288 SPELL_ENERGIZE,0x0100000000000CBD,"Aspyronk",0x511,0x0,0x0100000000000CBD,"Aspyronk", 0x511,0x0,116328,"Recoil",0x1,5,4
4/1 10:07:16.288 SPELL_AURA_REFRESH,0x0100000000000CBD,"Aspyronk",0x511,0x0,0x0100000000000CBD,"Aspyro nk",0x511,0x0,117994,"Stagger",0x1,BUFF
4/1 10:07:16.721 SWING_MISSED,0xF1303E9C0000002A,"Patchwerk",0x10a48,0x0,0x0100000000000CBD,"Aspyronk" ,0x511,0x0,DODGE
4/1 10:07:17.121 SPELL_AURA_REFRESH,0x0100000000000CBD,"Aspyronk",0x511,0x0,0x0100000000000CBD,"Aspyro nk",0x511,0x0,117994,"Stagger",0x1,BUFF
4/1 10:07:17.121 SPELL_ENERGIZE,0x0100000000000CBD,"Aspyronk",0x511,0x0,0x0100000000000CBD,"Aspyronk", 0x511,0x0,116328,"Recoil",0x1,5,4
4/1 10:07:17.455 SWING_MISSED,0xF1303E9C0000002A,"Patchwerk",0x10a48,0x0,0x0100000000000CBD,"Aspyronk" ,0x511,0x0,DODGE
4/1 10:07:17.522 SPELL_MISSED,0xF1303E9C0000002A,"Patchwerk",0x10a48,0x0,0x0100000000000CBD,"Aspyronk" ,0x511,0x0,28308,"Hateful Strike",0x1,DODGE
4/1 10:07:17.522 SPELL_AURA_REFRESH,0x0100000000000CBD,"Aspyronk",0x511,0x0,0x0100000000000CBD,"Aspyro nk",0x511,0x0,117994,"Stagger",0x1,BUFF
4/1 10:07:17.522 SPELL_ENERGIZE,0x0100000000000CBD,"Aspyronk",0x511,0x0,0x0100000000000CBD,"Aspyronk", 0x511,0x0,116328,"Recoil",0x1,5,4
4/1 10:07:17.522 SPELL_AURA_REFRESH,0x0100000000000CBD,"Aspyronk",0x511,0x0,0x0100000000000CBD,"Aspyro nk",0x511,0x0,117994,"Stagger",0x1,BUFF
4/1 10:07:18.221 SWING_DAMAGE,0xF1303E9C0000002A,"Patchwerk",0x10a48,0x0,0x0100000000000CBD,"Aspyronk" ,0x511,0x0,3617,-1,1,0,0,0,nil,nil,nil
4/1 10:07:18.288 SPELL_AURA_APPLIED,0x0100000000000CBD,"Aspyronk",0x511,0x0,0x0100000000000CBD,"Aspyro nk",0x511,0x0,117998,"Stagger",0x1,BUFF
4/1 10:07:18.288 SPELL_AURA_REFRESH,0x0100000000000CBD,"Aspyronk",0x511,0x0,0x0100000000000CBD,"Aspyro nk",0x511,0x0,117994,"Stagger",0x1,BUFF
4/1 10:07:18.688 SPELL_MISSED,0xF1303E9C0000002A,"Patchwerk",0x10a48,0x0,0x0100000000000CBD,"Aspyronk" ,0x511,0x0,28308,"Hateful Strike",0x1,MISS
4/1 10:07:18.688 SPELL_AURA_REFRESH,0x0100000000000CBD,"Aspyronk",0x511,0x0,0x0100000000000CBD,"Aspyro nk",0x511,0x0,117994,"Stagger",0x1,BUFF
4/1 10:07:18.955 SWING_MISSED,0xF1303E9C0000002A,"Patchwerk",0x10a48,0x0,0x0100000000000CBD,"Aspyronk" ,0x511,0x0,DODGE
4/1 10:07:19.122 SPELL_AURA_REFRESH,0x0100000000000CBD,"Aspyronk",0x511,0x0,0x0100000000000CBD,"Aspyro nk",0x511,0x0,117994,"Stagger",0x1,BUFF
4/1 10:07:19.122 SPELL_ENERGIZE,0x0100000000000CBD,"Aspyronk",0x511,0x0,0x0100000000000CBD,"Aspyronk", 0x511,0x0,116328,"Recoil",0x1,5,4
4/1 10:07:19.155 SPELL_AURA_REMOVED,0x0100000000000CBD,"Aspyronk",0x511,0x0,0x0100000000000CBD,"Aspyro nk",0x511,0x0,115308,"Elusive Brew",0x1,BUFF
4/1 10:07:19.221 SPELL_CAST_FAILED,0x0100000000000CBD,"Aspyronk",0x511,0x0,0x0000000000000000,nil,0x80 000000,0x80000000,115295,"Guard",0x1,"Not enough Chi"
4/1 10:07:19.721 SWING_DAMAGE,0xF1303E9C0000002A,"Patchwerk",0x10a48,0x0,0x0100000000000CBD,"Aspyronk" ,0x511,0x0,3803,-1,1,0,0,0,nil,nil,nil
4/1 10:07:19.921 SPELL_AURA_REFRESH,0x0100000000000CBD,"Aspyronk",0x511,0x0,0x0100000000000CBD,"Aspyro nk",0x511,0x0,117998,"Stagger",0x1,BUFF
4/1 10:07:19.921 SPELL_AURA_REFRESH,0x0100000000000CBD,"Aspyronk",0x511,0x0,0x0100000000000CBD,"Aspyro nk",0x511,0x0,117994,"Stagger",0x1,BUFF
4/1 10:07:19.921 SPELL_AURA_REFRESH,0x0100000000000CBD,"Aspyronk",0x511,0x0,0x0100000000000CBD,"Aspyro nk",0x511,0x0,117998,"Stagger",0x1,BUFF
4/1 10:07:19.921 SPELL_AURA_REFRESH,0x0100000000000CBD,"Aspyronk",0x511,0x0,0x0100000000000CBD,"Aspyro nk",0x511,0x0,117994,"Stagger",0x1,BUFF
4/1 10:07:19.921 SPELL_DAMAGE,0xF1303E9C0000002A,"Patchwerk",0x10a48,0x0,0x0100000000000CBD,"Aspyronk" ,0x511,0x0,28308,"Hateful Strike",0x1,6942,-1,1,0,0,0,nil,nil,nil
4/1 10:07:20.055 SPELL_AURA_REMOVED,0x0100000000000CBD,"Aspyronk",0x511,0x0,0x0100000000000CBD,"Aspyro nk",0x511,0x0,115307,"Shuffle",0x1,BUFF

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Old 04/03/12, 4:07 AM   #34
Berthold
Don Flamenco
 
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Pandaren Warrior
 
Madmortem (EU)
I have been thinking about our mastery. It has two components, it reduces the dot component of a staggered hit and it gives us an absorb shield. Let's take a look first at the staggering:
At first this sounds interesting and useful, but will we actually stack mastery for this?
If we take a look at the other tanks, we can see that they all have a chance to lessen the damage from a hit using absorbs/shield block etc. This means that a) over the long run, they will take less damage and b) flatten spiky damage.
In my opinion, b) is the more important, but our mastery doesn't help with that. As we always have a 25% chance to stagger, every fourth attack is flattened out already, leaving a dot that just drains a little bit more mana, but doesn't "surprise" the healer.
On the other hand, a warrior can increase his *chance* to block using his mastery, thereby turning full hits into lessened hits.

The second part of our mastery increases our guard shields. This could actually be useful against b). However, as we will often have a stagger dot running, the shields might be consumed just for the dot.

All in all, if b) is (again) the real problem, I could see ourselves stack dodge over mastery (given a similar long-term reduction effect for the current DR level).

SimulationCraft starter guide: https://code.google.com/p/simulation.../StartersGuide
Please do not PM me about things you wouldn't put in the respective threads. Just post them there, others might learn stuff from your questions.

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Old 04/03/12, 6:02 AM   #35
krekot
Von Kaiser
 
Undead Death Knight
 
Burning Legion (EU)
When brewmaster will use one-handed weapon we can put 2 tank enchants.

What happend with tanking enchants. They will refresh or stack?

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Old 04/03/12, 2:54 PM   #36
towelliee
Glass Joe
 
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Dwarf Paladin
 
Stormrage
Don't think we were meant for 2H but I do think if we dual wield and both enchants work especially the absorb colossus one we are in for a treat and a quick hot fix.

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Old 04/03/12, 11:40 PM   #37
Hinalover
Don Flamenco
 
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Pandaren Monk
 
Kil'Jaeden
I know this is dated, but I know GC made the comment right after Blizzcon that Blizzard is designing Windwalkers to be using fists while Brewmasters would be using stalves. However he also mentioned that they could change that.

For weapons, the two signature items are fists and staves. At the moment, we are focusing the Windwalker on fists and the Brewmaster on staves, but we might give players more flexibility than that.
Blizzard Insider #42 -- Meet the Pandaren Monk - World of Warcraft

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Old 04/04/12, 3:39 AM   #38
Hamsda
Piston Honda
 
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Goblin Priest
 
Mannoroth (EU)
That sounds like the most logical step, too, since staves itemized for feral druids or hunters would then probably be good for brewmasters and the fist weapons could be used by enhancement shamans and rogues. This would help blizzard reduce the amount of items which can only be used by a small percentage of all speccs.

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Old 04/04/12, 4:19 AM   #39
Kirion
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Tauren Shaman
 
Deathwing (EU)
Originally Posted by Hamsda View Post
That sounds like the most logical step, too, since staves itemized for feral druids or hunters would then probably be good for brewmasters and the fist weapons could be used by enhancement shamans and rogues. This would help blizzard reduce the amount of items which can only be used by a small percentage of all speccs.
Hunters will lose melee weapon slots. So we probably looking for glaives and feral druid type staves.

42.

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Old 04/04/12, 11:08 AM   #40
PowerBaton
Von Kaiser
 
Troll Priest
 
<TnT>
Burning Legion (EU)
Totally offtop but probably some of you would have to try other specs, there is a bug that allow you to change spec.

1. Spec into mystery talent, in first or 2nd tier
2. Queue into dungeon or go into some phasing area
3. When you join the dungeon or your area get phased, your talents and spec gets reseted
4. Then relog and spec again into something else if you want to

Did just 3 times in a row and it works for me kinda fine.

Last edited by PowerBaton : 04/04/12 at 12:05 PM.

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Old 04/05/12, 8:19 AM   #41
Neara
Glass Joe
 
Pandaren Monk
 
Die Ewige Wacht (EU)
Originally Posted by Draugdae View Post
When I tested this on the last beta build, it kept my %health constant when I clicked off the buff. I believe it has also kept my % health constant when I apply the buff, though I have not tested that as thoroughly.
Just tested Fortifying Brew a bit.
Activating it doubles your maxHP and Heals you by 100% of your normal maxHP. When FB ends you lose those HP you just got healed for, if you are below 50% HP (your normal maxHP) when it ends it puts you at 1HP.

Your own heals (Expel Harm, Healing Sphere) can be used while FB is active, still not a CD i'd want to use as a tank.

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Old 04/07/12, 12:02 PM   #42
voltarin
Glass Joe
 
Draenei Shaman
 
Argent Dawn (EU)
Guard now has a 30 second CD which is not mirrored in the tooltip or icon

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Old 04/09/12, 2:01 PM   #43
DarthMetatron
Glass Joe
 
Human Death Knight
 
Zul'Jin
Originally Posted by voltarin View Post
Guard now has a 30 second CD which is not mirrored in the tooltip or icon
Yeah, I didn't realize it until I logged in to do some 5-man dungeons with my Monk. Boy, was I in for a surprise...

It's like Death Strike, that doesn't heal, do damage, or stack. Now it's on a 30 second cooldown. I can still use my Ox clicks I guess, but now I have to tell people "Don't click on my Ox please".

I'm finding it hard to get into the class at this point. I feel like a DPS who is wearing a lot of Dodge/Parry gear that can't keep agro on groups on mobs (I know threat is broken) with 100 buttons staring me in the face that don't really make a difference as to which one I push. It feels like it doesn't make anything better or worse when trying different abilities.

Low HP, low armor, and low Dodge. High Parry. Mastery seems "Eh" so far. It just feels like an Alpha to me.

I also feel like there are so many abilities available to use, but none of them seem to be the champion of the class (like I thought Guard was supposed to be, but 30 seconds is too long. Maybe 15?).

(I put a * in front of the abilities I think are ok in their current form.)

Avert Harm - I killed myself with this, hah. Use with Meditation in big AoE phase?

Fortifying Brew - LOL? Can't be used with Touch of Death on bosses, very situational. Would prefer if I never have to rely on this.

*Expel Harm - I use it on CD. It's almost like the missing component for Guard (making it essentially Death Strike for 2 GCDs and 15/30 sec CD)

Dematerialize - Haven't gotten this yet, but this seems like a good cooldown except that you lose all threat when used...

Ring of Peace NYI - If it can't be used on bosses, it is worthless. Exploitable in its current description.

*Elusive Brew - Use on CD.

*Dizzying Haze - 9% additional chance to not take an attack with 3 stacks.

Guard - 30 sec CD is too long for 38k absorb.

Purifying Brew - only worth using with Shuffle?

Shuffle - could be a double-edged sword. Need a parse of equal level raid situation to see how easily stagger damage + non-staggered attacks can create a huge mana dump for healers.

* Tiger Palm - use Above 50% boss health

* Blackout Kick - use Below 50% boss health (or during procs)

Leer of the Ox - Statue has about 46k HP, worthless unless there is a predictable single attack coming that will kill you. But then you lose your "Guard stick". The alternative is to put it 40 yards away from the boss and have the raid follow while beating on it, but that seems less than ideal.


My normal "rotation" (I know we are using a "priority system" but this is an example) starts like this:

(0 Chi) (Summon Ox Statue)
Provoke (Pull)
Dizzying Haze (1)
Clobber
Elusive Brew (45 sec CD)
Tiger Palm (1)
Dizzying Haze (2)
Tiger Palm (2)
Dizzying Haze (3)
Tiger Palm (3)
Tiger Palm (3)
Tiger Palm (3)
Dizzying Haze (3)
Clobber
Clobber
<Elusive Brew Effect Ends>
Guard (30 sec CD)
Expel Harm (15 sec CD)

At this point it's normally rotating Dizzying Haze/Clobber/Tiger Palm (Blackout Kick proc) for 15 seconds until Expel harm is up. Then 16 seconds later Guard is up (with Expel Harm) and finally Elusive Brew again shortly afterwards.

Clobber for Chi
Dizzying Haze (3 stacks for 9% "Missfire" effect)
Tiger Palm (3 stacks for 15% increased Guard effect
Expel Harm (increased by 30% while under the effect of Guard)
Use Blackout Kick on proc.
Shuffle followed (3 seconds later) by Purifying Brew for Big Cooldown (45 Sec CD)
Dematerialize for Big Cooldown (45 Sec CD)


Questions I have unanswered/unresearched:
1 Missfire (Dizzying Haze, Keg Smash) = 1 Attack you don't take? If so, then Keg Smash also should be worked into the priority as well.
Energy Dump? I feel like I only use energy for Dizzying Haze at this point and it seems like a waste having a resource pool of its own.

Last edited by DarthMetatron : 04/09/12 at 4:05 PM.

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Old 04/09/12, 2:04 PM   #44
PowerBaton
Von Kaiser
 
Troll Priest
 
<TnT>
Burning Legion (EU)
about Dematerialize, it makes you lost all threat, like paladins bubble

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Old 04/11/12, 8:06 AM   #45
krekot
Von Kaiser
 
Undead Death Knight
 
Burning Legion (EU)
Monk - Skills
  • Blackout Kick - Additional damage now over 6 sec, down from 8 sec.
  • Expel Harm - Now costs 6% of base mana, up from 2%. Now has a 10 yd range, up from melee range.
  • Fortifying Brew - After Fortifying Brew ends, you will be healed for the amount abosrbed.
  • Jab - Now costs 6% of base mana, up from .5%.
  • Stance of the Fierce Tiger - Text removed: Allows use of abilities under jurisdiction of the White Tiger, such as offensive damage abilities.


Monk - Talents
  • Charging Ox Wave - Now knockbacks everyone in a 40 yard range, up from 5.
  • Dampen Harm New: You dampen the damage from the most harmful attacks done to you. The next 3 attacks that deal damage equal to 10% or more of your total health are reduced in half. 1 Chi, Instant cast, 30 sec cooldown.
  • Healing Elixers New: Anytime you drink from a Brew or Tea, you gain 10% of your total health. This effect cannot occur once every 15 sec.
  • Momentum - Everytime you Roll or Chi Torpedo, your movement speed is increased by 25% (was 30%) for 10 sec. Stacks up to 2 times.


Monk - Brewmaster
  • Breath of Fire - Now does 1,400 to 1,786 damage, down from 2,001 to 2,552.
  • Brewmaster Training - No longer makes Tiger Palm cost no Chi.
  • Clashing Ox Charge New: You and the enemy target meet halfway, stunning the target for 2 sec. 40 yd range, Instant cast, 35 sec cooldown.
  • Dizzying Haze - Deals a high amount of threat.
  • Guard - Now has a 30 sec cooldown.
  • Keg Smash - Now costs 40 Energy instead of 1 Chi. Generates 2 Chi.
  • Purifying Brew - Now has a 6 sec cooldown, down from 45.
  • Shuffle - No longer has a cooldown.
  • Stance of the Sturdy Ox - Now also increases your total health by 30%.

Great changes. Now monks have high aoe treath ability. I suppose Purifying Brew with 6 sec cooldown would be use always on cd, and maybe make macro for all skillis. And 30% more health.

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