Brewmaster (Tank) Basic Discussion - Page 4

Thargos · 04/11/12, 9:23 AM

The current cooldown changes to Shuffle and Purifying Brew makes me wonder if there will be any changes to the Brewmaster's mastery. Reducing the staggered dot amount won't really matter if you can clear it every 6 seconds, so the mastery's effect will be reduced to only increasing the Guard ability.

Increasing the CHANCE to stagger an attack on the other hand would decrease the value of shuffle with raising item levels. Maybe some passive DR like increased armor would be an option.

DarthMetatron · 04/11/12, 10:08 AM

Last night I had fun trying to tank the 5-man with my premade Brewmaster.

Some observations:
140k buffed HP, Brewmaster has equal or less HP than Rogue, DK, Druid and Hunters in my party (non-tank premades)
11k Armor, almost 0 mitigation, when you get hit, you really get hit.
30% avoidance (25% Dodge, 5% Parry)
25% Stagger

In 10 attacks, an average of 3 are avoided and of those 7 remaining attacks, 1.75 are Staggered. You are still taking 5.25 full unmitigated hits, plus stagger damage.

I gemmed for Mastery before I started, but it seems I'm going to have to gem for Avoidance instead.

Elusive Brew, Shuffle + Purifying Brew, Guard + Expel Harm were the abilities I used on bosses. Avert Harm tends to lessen my survivability so I'm not using it. I did use Avert Harm + Meditation during Anger and Strife, I was just so happy that I got to use it! LOL

Still got hit for 70k+ with every Dragon Kick from Liu Flameheart. No magic mitigation because of the 30 second Guard CD it is ludacris. Half the time I just run around kiting the boss and hoping not to get hit by abilities because they would one-shot me.
Cool
Doing it with the Brewmaster was a very stressful wipefest and not fun at all whereas doing this dungeon on my Blood DK, I felt like "Cool, that dungeon was fun and quick!"

Kawa · 04/16/12, 11:27 AM

Originally Posted by DarthMetatron

Still got hit for 70k+ with every Dragon Kick from Liu Flameheart. No magic mitigation because of the 30 second Guard CD it is ludacris. Half the time I just run around kiting the boss and hoping not to get hit by abilities because they would one-shot me.
Cool

I won't disagree that the current Guard mechanic needs to be changed to be in line with the up time of the other tanks, the cool down for the actual ability is too high. However, Black Ox Statues are ridiculously overpowered. I have one kill of Liu where I literally took zero damage because of +15% Guards and Disc shields. It's a very clunky mechanic and needs to be changed. Also, the Guard shields on yourself from the statues scale with your mastery.
Disc healer log
Holy healer log(400K higher damage taken, NO GUARD SPAM)

However, the incoming damage is not unhealable by any stretch. When I was healing these instances as Mistweaver pretty much every premade 85 tank was getting destroyed by her, but even Brewmasters that never used Guard were healable.

I will readily admit I have no idea exactly how to go about things in the logs. All I did was split the logs from first attack to the death of the mob, and removed all Misfire lines. All of this is with an 87 Brewmaster monk in MoP green/blues and no reforging. Stats here.

There are a couple other full logs and some Sha of Doubt logs on that WoL also if anyone is interested.

DarthMetatron · 04/18/12, 2:17 PM

Yeah, I think things are better than they were since I posted on the 11th. 30% HP Buff and at least you can Shuffle/Purifying Brew ad nauseum now. Haven't had much time to test since these changes went into effect.

Disargeria · 04/24/12, 10:13 PM

So the change to shuffle is...

Shuffle has been removed.

Brewmaster Training now causes Blackout Kicks to make you Stagger the next 3 hits against you.

Dizzying Haze no longer stacks, looks to only have 3% misfire total. Keg Smash now automatically applies it, as well as the -10% physical damage debuff.

Breath of Fire now puts a DoT on DH targets, making it a lot more like the original WC3 ability.

Fortifying Brew has been adjusted and now reduces damage by 20% instead of absorbing healing. This is effectively our Shield Wall.

Avert Harm was massively overbuffed to 50%.

Expel Harm generates Chi and should be much much more useful for tanks.

Overall, fantastic changes for Brewmasters.

dracjin · 04/25/12, 6:43 AM

Originally Posted by Disargeria

So the change to shuffle is...

Dizzying Haze no longer stacks, looks to only have 3% misfire total. Keg Smash now automatically applies it, as well as the -10% physical damage debuff.

It is still stacking, only lacking tool tip.

New Tank Glyphs:

Glyph of Breath of Fire: When you use Breath of Fire on targets that have 3 stacks of Dizzying Haze, they become Disoriented for 3 sec.

Glyph of Dizzying Haze: You apply two stacks of Dizzying Haze when cast, instead of one.

Glyph of Guard: Increases the amount your Guard absorbs by 10%, but your Guard can only absorb magical damage.

h4rr0d · 04/29/12, 4:15 AM

Originally Posted by dracjin

It is still stacking, only lacking tool tip.

New Tank Glyphs:

Glyph of Breath of Fire: When you use Breath of Fire on targets that have 3 stacks of Dizzying Haze, they become Disoriented for 3 sec.

Glyph of Dizzying Haze: You apply two stacks of Dizzying Haze when cast, instead of one.

Glyph of Guard: Increases the amount your Guard absorbs by 10%, but your Guard can only absorb magical damage.

If the Dizzying haze was still tacking, there would be the number of stacks on the icon (and there is not). Either the stacking is bugged right now or (and that's what my money's on) the glyphs are outdated.

Here's screeny to show how the stacking and not stacking debuff looks in combat log:

Disargeria · 05/01/12, 7:24 PM

New NEW Stagger mechanic on beta:

-Stagger now happens on every single attack.
-Stagger now does 70% damage up front, 30% later.
-DoT lasts 10 seconds, up from 8.

Combined with:

-Mastery changed to increase parry chance and reduce damage of stagger DoT.

And Shuffle (the proc from using Blackout Kick):

-Increases parry chance by 30%
-Redirects an additional 20% of damage when you stagger (changes it to 50% reduced, 50% DoT (reduced by mastery))
-Has a 6 sec duration rather than charges.

Means we finally have a working active/passive mitigation and "block" mechanic that scales.

Brotherbear · 05/02/12, 3:21 PM

I can't see these changes making it to live without something fundamental changing.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but we're looking at being able to chain BoK with Elusive Brew to effectively have 85% avoidance completely naked. Add in the miss chance and you'd only need about 12% dodge (easily gotten through agility alone) to be completely unhittable for 10 seconds every 45.

Am I missing something here?

Yörgle · 05/03/12, 3:24 AM

Originally Posted by Brotherbear

I can't see these changes making it to live without something fundamental changing.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but we're looking at being able to chain BoK with Elusive Brew to effectively have 85% avoidance completely naked. Add in the miss chance and you'd only need about 12% dodge (easily gotten through agility alone) to be completely unhittable for 10 seconds every 45.

Am I missing something here?

No you are not missing something.

I tried it yesterday, and I was above 100% avoidance with my gear on, with 80% not affected by DR. Being able to have that with a 20% uptime can't be right (nor fun, tbh).

Pinga · 05/06/12, 9:28 AM

I notice that Blackout Kick adds 6s to the duration of Suffle, instead just renewing it.

Yörgle · 05/06/12, 3:47 PM

Originally Posted by Pinga

I notice that Blackout Kick adds 6s to the duration of Suffle, instead just renewing it.

Up to 12 seconds, though, from what I tested.
If you have, say 8 seconds left and use your BoK, Shuffle will stay at 8 sec and decrease normally (meaning that you basically wasted 2 chi). I don't know if it's intended.

Oatz17 · 05/09/12, 12:16 PM

The problem with the new fortifying brew is that it lacks comparable mitigation to non melee hits as the other tanks' "shield wall." Part of the traditional 50% mitigation is now allocated to shuffle, which is for melee hits. You typically don't shield wall to protect against these kinds of attacks. The hp increase they had before was interesting and still an overall EH increase.

buzzed1979 · 05/15/12, 6:53 AM

I may have missed it but, do monks get any avoidance from agil like feral druids do, or is it straight dodge and parry stats only? I do not see it in the tooltip in game, but i ran so many addons I am not sure if in live that it may have been an addon that showed it on my druid.

Yörgle · 05/15/12, 7:06 AM

Originally Posted by buzzed1979

I may have missed it but, do monks get any avoidance from agil like feral druids do, or is it straight dodge and parry stats only? I do not see it in the tooltip in game, but i ran so many addons I am not sure if in live that it may have been an addon that showed it on my druid.

That probably an addon like Statrating (event if this one is not up to date), the game itself doesn't display percentage gained from stats and scores in the tooltip.

And yes, Agility provides dodge.