So I basically stat my monk the same as I would my druid only I can throw some parry in the mix? Also I just got to thinking that warriors and pallies get parry from strength. Do monks at all?
Nope, only plate wearers that got that.
And we don't know how Monks will be itemized : mainly, we don't know yet if avoidance > mastery (afaik). However one thing is for sure : while you reforge / gem dodge with a druid (who can't parry), you'll reforge/gem parray rather than dodge on a monk to lower the effects of DR.
With blackout Kick granting the Shuffle buff. This will make it a very high priority for Chi usage. It will also mean that Parry will be our lowest priority for stats.
Yes and no.
Yes, obviously BOK will be extremly valuable for both reasons you mentionned.
No, parry won't probably be our lowest priority for stat. Why ? Because the buff given by BOK is in percent so most likely subjected to DR (only ratings are) and because we gear in Agility, we will have more dodge rating than parry rating.
I've been messing around with my Level 90 on the servers and have tested reforging a couple different ways. I have found according to healers that its easier when i reforge parry instead of dodge, but that is separate from the question i feel is a problem as i move into heroics..
I just for experiment sake tried to reforge my gear to Expertise Cap... I couldn't do it. I think tried to reforge my gear to Hit Cap and couldn't do it.. Now this theory may be completely off but i notice when i get dodged or parried by a boss because i become chi starved. It seems like having even 1 miss is devastating when dealing with bosses that hit pretty hard. The point i am getting too is even reforging everything to hit or expertise i can't hit the cap so i still have a chance of that happening. It wouldn't be a big deal but lets say i don't hit on a BoK i lose out on 2 chi and my shuffle doesn't go up? I miss on the Tiger Palm refresh i have to stack it to 3 again.. and then hit guard.. It seems like the same issue that DK's had with Death Strike Missing and it makes us basically RNG tanks to a certain degree..
I am just wondering if anyone has read any comments from Blizzard on this i missed or has done enough theory crafting to figure out what the optimal balance is for Brewmasters..
I suppose that will be change like DS. BOK will give always buff or covered like by DS in mop. DS can't be parried.
And yes reforge into parry is better because DR will provide less dodge. I don't play so much monk tank and don't know if they have passive dodge chance. Monk get dodge from agility. Best option is to have parry and dodge in same level. Gems I will prefer parry + stam, parry+mastery in starter gear in end game better reforge into dodge and stack gems mastery+stam, mastery, in red agility or agility + mastery. Why because again DR shows up but now on parry chance. This option will be good when you have to much parry or when mastery give more parry chance than parry rating. Remember parry from BOK and mastery isn't reduce by DR.
I think expertise and hit will still be crucial even if they change BoK in the way you described. I doubt they would ever change Jab or Expel Harm to grant chi if they miss. I'm close to hit and expertise cap on my beta monk and the rotation is still pretty tight when it comes to having enough energy/chi.
It's the opposite, Krekot : DS was a temporary fix for the end of Cata but as Eetabeetay said, Hit / Exp will be important even for tanks.
@Bris : I got many heroic gear pieces and was able to reach expertise cap quite easily (maybe because some already had a lot on Exp on them).
Yes on some fights I used exp/hit like hatchlings on Alysrazor or Ultraxion. When you need dps for kill adds or your raid wipe because group can't beat enrage timer. But fights like Warmaster or Spine I prefer mastery. I will maybe level monk a bit and tank heroics
Yeh I am the same I am currently both hit and expertise capped for heroics and I could get the full cap for raid bosses whilst still maintaining full mastery reforges, still got to get like 4 more items from heroics however two of witch from master snowdrift so hopefully they fix his chest with this latest patch.
I’ve made some calculations for a few days about Monk Brewmaster (one with the Power Strikes talent and a 2H weapon), to know the impact of each rating on the damage reduction we have against the melee attacks of a boss.
I wrote a program that considers we use Guard, the Black Oxe Statue (which implies calculating the dps of the Brewmaster – I’ve done it in the same way as the dps of the Windwalker, which is explained in the corresponding thread), Elusive Brew (I also take Tiger Strikes into account to calculate the proc rate), even Swift Reflexes… in fact the program includes everything except Zen Sphere since it is heavily modified nowadays, and Gift of the Ox, since I couldn’t get any information about its proc rate.
I consider we use Keg Smash every 8 seconds, Expel Harm every 15 sec (and I consider it doesn’t do any overheal, nor do Guard and the Black Ox Statue). There is still some energy per second left even with zero haste/hit/exp, I spend this energy on Jab.
I use Blackout Kick every 6 seconds to keep Shuffle up, and Guard every 30 sec. The remaining Chi is spent on Purifying Brew. But there is remaining Chi only above certain values of haste/hit/exp, since a missed Keg Smash consumes energy but gives no Chi, and a missed Jab consumes 8 energy. I did check that at 0 haste/hit/exp, using Keg Smash is an increased generation of Chi per second compared to a situation in which we would use Jab only. I consider that 80% of the downtime is spent on using a free Tiger Palm.
The results concerning Stamina only represent the AP increase via Vengeance (and I use the real formula stam->AP, not the wrong one in the tooltip), which causes an increase in dps (and therefore in the speed at which the Black Ox Statue will proc), and in the healing of Guard and Expel Harm.
The parameters are as follows (the name of some variables might not correspond to their description : they are in French ^^) :
- attack speed of the boss (time between two attacks)
- boss dps on the tank
- armour rating
- dodge rating
- parry rating
- weapon dps
- weapon speed (actually the calculation proves that it doesn’t interfere at all with tanking efficiency ; it simply doesn’t appear in the final fomula, because the damage of Monk abilities are not calculated in the same fashion as other melee classes, which means a Windwalker can chose any 2H weapon, regardless of speed)
- haste rating
- hit rating
- expertise rating
- crit rating
- mastery rating
- whether or not we have the crit buff (1 if we do, 0 if we don’t)
- whether or not we have the AP buff (1 if we do, 0 if we don’t)
- whether or not we have the Mastery buff (1 if we do, 0 if we don’t)
The damage reduction is :
As you can see, we can’t see a thing. I use partial derivative (if that’s what it’s called in English) to calculate the impact of each stat. For a Brewmaster with an equipment like that of my Monk on the beta, and for a boss hitting the tank every 2 seconds for an average of 100k dps :
We notice that haste is like… waooh. This is probably due to the fact that it significantly increases both the number of Purifying Brew (since it increases the Chi generation) and the procs of Elusive Brew. And it increases dps, which increases the rate at which the Black Ox Statue is activated.
On the contrary, Mastery seems to be a very, very poor stat (fortunately, it will be buffed for next patch). The probable explanation is that we already have a base Stagger of 50% (30% stance of the Ox + 20% Shuffle) and Mastery doesn’t increase Stagger a lot. In addition, the staggered damage is one that is already reduced by other damage reductions.
I also made a little program that helps comparing the efficiency of our sources of survival. Note that the detailed numbers are not representative of the actual damage reduction, given the interaction between these reductions (you’ll notice that adding them won’t give a result of 57k overall) ; they are only here to give us an idea about how powerful is a survival technique. But the overall damage reduction is correct, and in this example, the Brewmaster does ignore an average of 57k damage per second :
I hope this will be useful, and that I haven’t made too many mistakes in the text (I haven’t written anything in English for a while).
A missed Keg Smash does not cost full energy.
Maintaining 100% Shuffle uptime is not actually optimal. The actual optimal uptime of Shuffle varies a bit with gear, but is generally in the 60-90% range. This allows you to spend more chi on Purifying Brew, which is a net gain.
If you're seeing mastery as only 6% of the value of Agi, you've probably got something wrong with how you're purifying, probably related to the BK/PB usage split I described.