Windwalker (DPS): a flurry of tender fisting. - Page 12

LightforgedUS · 10/08/12, 10:36 AM

Originally Posted by shinwa

We dropped the strength one yesterday, so i'm pretty sure this one is in there too

I was lucky enough to get Jade Bandit Figurine on my very first run of Mogu'shan Vaults. It is indeed the same values as Hawkmaster's Talon (the normal mode version).

For the record, it is a trash drop, not a shared boss loot.

Eyedore · 10/08/12, 10:50 AM

So the [Jade Bandit Figurine] Gives 3595 haste on use, just like the [Hawkmaster's Talon]?
In other words, the tooltip on wowhead for the Jade Bandit trinket it wrong?

tastysnack · 10/08/12, 12:45 PM

Originally Posted by gahddo

FoF is a sizable gain. Roughly 3.4% with 2pc. Simply dismissing it is a very very bad idea. That being said, if you lose ONE tick of it to early canceling because of movement its a loss. So simply put, don't use it if you have to do anything else during the channel <.<.

Right. As previously mentioned, it's great for a Patchwerk-esque fight. However, those are few and far between. The gain overall is minimal, to being a loss in a normal raid situation. Honestly, it's a 2-set bonus for the first tier: it's completely useless, agreed, but typically early tiers aren't terribly amazing.

Thanks for the trinket information! So, should Xuen be considered BiS due to agi + agi proc (holy cow) vs. agi + haste or crit?

Iroared · 10/08/12, 5:53 PM

Didn't see any discussion on that: what's the deal with tigereye brew dropping when entering combat? If it was intended to stop us from bursting off the bat (considering how every other class is allowed to do that), it still doesn't prevent us from using the brew just before the pull and keeping the buff. Also, stacks can easily be refreshed out of combat by using expel harm/zen sphere while waiting.

• promdates · 10/08/12, 5:57 PM

Originally Posted by tastysnack

So, should Xuen be considered BiS due to agi + agi proc (holy cow) vs. agi + haste or crit?

Don't forget that Xuen is proc'd on crits, not normal hits. Surprisingly, the strength one is on hits, not crits.

lairpie · 10/08/12, 5:59 PM

Originally Posted by Iroared

Didn't see any discussion on that: what's the deal with tigereye brew dropping when entering combat? If it was intended to stop us from bursting off the bat (considering how every other class is allowed to do that), it still doesn't prevent us from using the brew just before the pull and keeping the buff. Also, stacks can easily be refreshed out of combat by using expel harm/zen sphere while waiting.

My guess is that it got hit because it was actually broken that mistweavers could go into a boss fight with 20 stacks of mana tea saved up already. A bonus 240k mana is an understandable balance issue.

Iroared · 10/08/12, 8:47 PM

My guess is that it got hit because it was actually broken that mistweavers could go into a boss fight with 20 stacks of mana tea saved up already. A bonus 240k mana is an understandable balance issue.

Yeah would be better if they kept tigerseye though, especially since it can still be used the way I described (or prevented that).

Regarding Xuen, is it an oversight on their part that agi version has 10 second higher ICD? (Not to mention proc on crit)

LightforgedUS · 10/09/12, 9:30 AM

Originally Posted by Eyedore

So the [Jade Bandit Figurine] Gives 3595 haste on use, just like the [Hawkmaster's Talon]?
In other words, the tooltip on wowhead for the Jade Bandit trinket it wrong?

Correct. More than likely, it was never encountered in beta other than the LFR version (because LFR Mogu'shan was available for about a month).

EDIT: Sorry for the late response, just forgot to keep checking.

Eyedore · 10/09/12, 9:46 AM

I'm trying to make the trinket list a bit better by actually calculating the average time it would take to proc a trinket (after the icd). But I don't have enough experience with that, so I could use your help:

Can trinkets proc from a dot? if so, only the first tick or every tick? I need to know this because of our blackout kick dot.
And what would this be on Fists of Fury? Do you reckon this works the same as a dot?

If I know this information I can calculate the average amount of hits and crits per second, and then how much time to add to the icd for each trinket.

tastysnack · 10/09/12, 11:15 AM

Not speaking for the current tier of trinkets, as I haven't looked, but drawing from past experience:

[quote=Eyedore;2204676]Can trinkets proc from a dot? [quote]
Yes, but it depends.

Originally Posted by Eyedore

if so, only the first tick or every tick? I need to know this because of our blackout kick dot.

Depends on the trinket. From memory, I remember that some could, while others rely on the actual initial caste. I'm not sure if the ones that procced off of a DoT were broken, however. Typically, they rely on the actual cast, but there have been previous tiers of trinkets that have proc'd on DoTs and HoTs. They usually say "your melee hits do X" or "your casts do Y", or "your <casts|hits> have a chance for Z".

I'm going to assume - and PLEASE correct me if I am wrong - that Xuen should be able to proc off of a DoT if it is proccing off of crits?

Originally Posted by Eyedore

And what would this be on Fists of Fury? Do you reckon this works the same as a dot?

It works as a channeled spell. I'll leave it to others on whether that's considered a DoT or its own thing. I've never played a channeled class, so I've never paid attention.

Saltycracker · 10/09/12, 11:49 AM

Originally Posted by Eyedore

I'm trying to make the trinket list a bit better by actually calculating the average time it would take to proc a trinket (after the icd). But I don't have enough experience with that, so I could use your help

I'm two cards away from my trinket atm, if I end up snagging it today I'll post some logs after raid.

Not too worried about the up-time though; we are throwing plenty of melee attacks at a boss in addition to having tiger strikes up a lot. You are going to crit. As long as you are hitting the boss with melee attacks, I think this trinket will proc.

Mihir · 10/09/12, 5:29 PM

Originally Posted by Eeinx

Someone mistakingly ninja added a change that FoF unable to scale with haste for some weird reason before 505-1 was released. Its still showing haste as better than crit, but at different values.

For you guys, I've built a version with the fix to FoF. Have at it

I simmed Agi 2.32 - haste 0.96

Download simc.zip from Sendspace.com - send big files the easy way

I added that because it doesn't scale with haste (and put it back in earlier today).

(unless you consider clipping the last tick "scaling with haste")

Saltycracker · 10/10/12, 2:46 AM

Relic of Xuen Logs (Autoattacking on a target dummy)

World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

Blessing of the Celestials ~20% uptime

Checking the logs, the lowest ICD for the trinket I found was 40s from when the buff expired till when the next one procced.

So, theoretically ~27.27% uptime.

Eyedore · 10/10/12, 9:58 AM

I updated the trinket list with new proc times because i calculated the hits/sec and crits/sec with simc

Any hit trinkets (including FoF and BoK dot): 2.840 hits/sec
- alchemy trinket

Direct hit trinkets (FoF only 1st tick, no BoK dot): 1.996 hits/sec
- terror, bottle and windswept pages

Any crit trinkets (including FoF): 0.62 crits/sec
- xuen, coren's

Direct crit trinkets (FoF only 1st tick): 0.576 crits/sec
- flashing talisman

Please let me know if you think there are trinkets that proc off of more/less hits

ps: there where no major changes in the order: normal bottle and alchemist stone got up 1 rank, coren's trinket went down to being the worst

fr0d0b0ls0n · 10/11/12, 3:26 AM

I was wondering if there is any way to easily compare 2 hands with dual handed weapons. 2 hands are pretty easy to get (we only share with feral druids), so in progress content is a thing to consider. What itemlevel is enough to compensate the dps loss from a 2 hand?

For example, the normal mode polearm can give you more dps than the 376 one handers from the LFR?