 |
11/11/12, 4:01 PM
|
#331
|
|
Von Kaiser
Blood Elf Warlock
Burning Legion
|
I've just finished some testing of PTR mechanics. Ascension is the *clear* winner for both 2h and dw at all gear levels and only gets better as gear increases. Its pretty easy to see how "simplified" the rotation has become with: no longer needing to track power strikes/finding time to use chi brew on cd; a 1 chi increased cap; only needing 1 tiger palm to get full 30% arp.
That being said, using ascension is about a 3k gain over chi brew/power strikes. The tiger power change resulted in a roughly 2k dps gain over live. The most interesting thing I found about the TP change and ascension change together, FoF usage becomes even more negligible than its current state. I ran a gambit of stat weight combinations, with and without using fof, and picked out the best stat combination for all 4 cases. All testing was done at 50k iterations. This is considering the FoF tick loss bug, so if that gets corrected anytime soon, FoF will more than likely be a non-negligble increase again.
DW, capped haste at just below first breakpoint, full crit stack passed that, USING FOF: 121085.7
DW, crit = haste, NOT USING FOF: 120174.3
2H, capped haste at just below first breakpoint, full crit stack passed that, USING FOF: 115414.4
2H, crit >> haste >> mastery, NOT USING FOF: 114543.0
So, TL;DR: FoF use results in a roughly 0.76% dps increase for both. I consider this negligible at best.
The new stat ranking for 2H is crit > haste > mastery
The new stat ranking for DW is crit = haste > mastery
There was no discernible point for either at which those rankings changed, at least that was achievable.
-edit- Forgot to mention, you shouldn't go full panic mode about tiger power anymore. If you'll cap energy within 2 seconds, nice number for gcd + human error, you shouldn't refresh the buff
Last edited by gahddo : 11/11/12 at 4:18 PM.
|
|
|
|
|
|
11/12/12, 8:35 AM
|
#332
|
|
Don Flamenco
Gnome Rogue
Darksorrow (EU)
|
Thanks for your work on this.
Did your sims also account for dancing steel being moved to RPPM? If yes, were there any significant changes?
Last edited by Crevan : 11/12/12 at 8:36 AM.
Reason: typos
|
|
|
|
|
|
11/12/12, 10:14 AM
|
#333
|
|
Von Kaiser
|
Originally Posted by Batmanglass
I have a few top parses on heroic bosses on WoL right now (WW by the name of Kimberhart).
All this discussion about whether FoF is a dps loss or gain is missing the point in my opinion.
When Energizing Brew is on CD, no combo breakers procs are up and you're waiting on your energy to regen, I always think that's the appropriate time to use FoF because you regen to nearly full energy while FoF is being channeled.
It is a great filler rather than sitting and waiting to for energy to jab.
That's why, for a few kills, I rarely use FoF on some attempts and use it nearly on CD other times. It just comes down to how my RNG for that attempt is.
And even if it's a dps increase when bloodlusted/heroismed, I tend to not use it because I don't want to risk it being on CD when I am energy starved and sitting at 0 or 1 chi.
|
It's obviously worth using if you see a window of opportunity to do so. What's not obvious is whether you should avoid haste to get more FoFs in with 5 ticks, or stack haste and end up almost never using it.
According to your armory you have very little haste and have reforged away from haste. So for you, FoF is going to be an option much more often. And you won't have as many clipped ticks.
But that still doesn't answer the question of whether stacking haste (and effectively ignoring FoF most of the time), or avoiding haste is going to give higher DPS overall.
|
|
|
|
|
|
11/12/12, 5:09 PM
|
#334
|
|
Von Kaiser
Blood Elf Warlock
Burning Legion
|
Originally Posted by Crevan
Thanks for your work on this.
Did your sims also account for dancing steel being moved to RPPM? If yes, were there any significant changes?
|
I actually forgot to test the effect of that change, so its likely some of that 2k increase from tiger power was actually dancing steel as well. I'll do some testing with various weapon enchant combos and see how it turns out.
|
|
|
|
|
|
11/12/12, 10:46 PM
|
#335
|
|
Piston Honda
|
Originally Posted by gahddo
I actually forgot to test the effect of that change, so its likely some of that 2k increase from tiger power was actually dancing steel as well. I'll do some testing with various weapon enchant combos and see how it turns out.
|
I can't see how the Tiger Power change would account for anything near 2k DPS. As someone stated a couple pages ago, you're really only saving 2 TP at the start of the fight (our goal being to never let the buff drop). So, I agree, it's likely something else entirely.
|
|
|
|
|
|
11/13/12, 12:31 AM
|
#336
|
|
Glass Joe
Pandaren Monk
Stormreaver
|
Originally Posted by Batmanglass
I have a few top parses on heroic bosses on WoL right now (WW by the name of Kimberhart).
All this discussion about whether FoF is a dps loss or gain is missing the point in my opinion.
When Energizing Brew is on CD, no combo breakers procs are up and you're waiting on your energy to regen, I always think that's the appropriate time to use FoF because you regen to nearly full energy while FoF is being channeled.
It is a great filler rather than sitting and waiting to for energy to jab.
That's why, for a few kills, I rarely use FoF on some attempts and use it nearly on CD other times. It just comes down to how my RNG for that attempt is.
And even if it's a dps increase when bloodlusted/heroismed, I tend to not use it because I don't want to risk it being on CD when I am energy starved and sitting at 0 or 1 chi.
|
I very rarely find myself energy starved when I'm using energy brew on (near) cooldown. Maybe I just have better luck with my mastery, who knows.
While I think you have a reasonable train of thought with the idea that you should use FoF when literally everything else is on cooldown and you lack the energy for another jab, I would personally bypass FoF altogether and pop energy brew and/or the haste trinket to boost energy regen and get back into jab/bk asap instead of letting FoF be a filler for that down time. Again, I am almost never in a situation where I'm so energy starved and lacking energy brew that FoF is a viable filler.
I simply find FoF nearly unusable for most fights, and the returns for using it in the small windows where you would get 4+ hits is...as others have said, negligible at best.
In other news, what's the verdict on using energy brew in conjunction with other outside haste effects, such as lust or trinket? I'm of the opinion that if you're not in danger of capping out at all during it's use, regardless of haste effects, it's fair game.
|
|
|
|
|
|
11/13/12, 10:21 PM
|
#337
|
|
Glass Joe
|
I gem
Red: +agi
Blue: +agi/+hit
Yellow: +agi/+haste
This was just for tanking Will.
During raid, I have 5967 haste, but I still never energy cap unless I get 2 CB procs during lust.
I EB whenever I get energy starved, but it still doesn't cover all the times that I am energy starved.
I don't FoF much, but I think it's an excellent cover, especially if I get bad RNG with CB procs.
I'm just pretty unimpressed with the 2pc/4pc tier bonuses.
|
|
|
|
|
|
11/14/12, 12:40 PM
|
#338
|
|
Von Kaiser
Pandaren Monk
Kazzak (EU)
|
Could anybody post our actual BiS for normal and heroic please.
simcraft currently reforges everything to crit, but since we stack haste wouldnt it be differant slightly?
|
|
|
|
|
|
11/14/12, 8:55 PM
|
#340
|
|
Glass Joe
|
I'm just not convinced it is negligible.
Here are some logs from Spiritbinder: World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis
I used FoF when I was out of energy, EB wasn't up and my trinket was down.
FoF is a huge dps increase when your only other option is to just sit around and wait for energy.
If I'm at 1 chi and energy starved, I can:
1.) Wait for 40 energy, jab, and then channel a FoF and have 60 energy when the channel completes
or
2.) Wait for 40 energy, jab, and then BoK and..... back to square one.
I just don't see how, used in the correct circumstances, it can be considered a negligible dps gain. |
|
|
|
|
|
11/14/12, 9:04 PM
|
#341
|
|
Glass Joe
|
Originally Posted by Jarush
|
Don't do this to me.
|
|
|
|
|
|
11/15/12, 10:12 AM
|
#342
|
|
Von Kaiser
Draenei Monk
Kul Tiras (EU)
|
Originally Posted by Batmanglass
I just don't see how, used in the correct circumstances, it can be considered a negligible dps gain.
|
Having a nice window of opportunity to use FoF doesn't mean it will be a dps gain. You would have to check what the channel duration of your FoF is and what the damage is of the 4 ticks it does for you (with almost 6k haste you will only get 4 ticks). Then compare that to the damage from auto-attack + tiger strikes and 1.5 BoK you can do during that time.
Only then can you say anything about how good or bad FoF is for your dps.
|
|
|
|
|
|
11/15/12, 1:57 PM
|
#343
|
|
Piston Honda
Pandaren Monk
Bleeding Hollow
|
Originally Posted by Guterboyryan
Don't do this to me.
|
Ascension is still changed on the PTR itself, so I would assume it's just a patch note error.
|
|
|
|
|
|
11/15/12, 4:26 PM
|
#344
|
|
Glass Joe
|
Originally Posted by Jarush
|
I believe it didn't show up because they're only showing lines that have been changed/added since the last PTR patch notes were released, not the entire 5.1 patch notes.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Similar Threads
